Just a reminder that the society depicted was a utopia

Just a reminder that the society depicted was a utopia

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huxley.net/
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A globalist society held up by socially enslaved drones without freedom or knowledge is not a utopia.

>no war
>no disease
>no scarcity
>everyone happy with their position in society
>everyone has all the fun they want and live healthy lifestyles
>nobody is mentally ill or depressed
>pneumatic girls

10/10

They have more freedom than you because they want to do what they are allowed to do and are therefore completely uninhibited by external boundaries.

Being able to do exactly what you want is de facto perfect freedom.

This was the most interesting aspect of the book.
The characters did live in a utopia, even those who didn't like it were free to leave. The issue is everyone was robbed of their humanity and served as nothing but cogs in the endless pleasure machine.

>everyone happy with their position in society
Apart from the 'savages' outside of the society and the intellectuals that are exiled to distant colonies and the superiors who run things for the drug addled masses.

>they want to do what they are allowed to do
>allowed
There is a word for this: Indoctrination.
>Being able to do exactly what you want is de facto perfect freedom.
Unless what you want is not allowed.

This is ignoring the author's explicit declaration that it is not a Utopia in letters to Orwell alone.

What do you mean by 'robbed of their humanity'?

What humanity do we posses now that they are deprived of?

The freedom to do dumb shit.

>Apart from the 'savages' outside of the society
Note 'outside'.
>and the intellectuals that are exiled to distant colonies
Voluntary exile on NEETbux to live as you want in sandbox mode on an island of choice paid for by the masses to be edgy to your heart's content.

> and the superiors who run things for the drug addled masses.
I didn't see any evidence the superiors were unhappy. Mond seemed wise and content.

>There is a word for this: Indoctrination.
There's no such thing as not being 'indoctrinated', individuals don't exist in a vacuum and every society runs some form of cultural operating system.

>Unless what you want is not allowed.
All societies have certain limits to what is allowed otherwise society would not be possible. The difference is that in BNW most if not all people can live how they please within those limits, while in our societies so far a lot of people want things they can not get. Harmony between in the individual and the collective in BNW is optimised in BNW.

>This is ignoring the author's explicit declaration that it is not a Utopia in letters to Orwell alone.
What Huxley thinks is irrelevant.

That's what the edgy islands were for though.

t. Houellebecq

Atomised is the perfect follow up to BNW.

Island is shit.

>“[Hitler] has grasped the falsity of the hedonistic attitude to life. Nearly all western thought since the last war, certainly all “progressive” thought, has assumed tacitly that human beings desire nothing beyond ease, security, and avoidance of pain. In such a view of life there is no room, for instance, for patriotism and the military virtues. Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice, not to mention drums, flag and loyalty-parades ... Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a grudging way, have said to people “I offer you a good time,” Hitler has said to them “I offer you struggle, danger and death,” and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet”
People don't want utopias, they want a struggle

>Mond seemed wise and content.
He expresses regret at not going into exile with his peers. Can you imagine being the only lucid man in a society of drug addled mindless workers, the only people you can have meaningful conversations with out of reach and contact?
>There's no such thing as not being 'indoctrinated'
Societal values =! indoctrination.
>All societies have certain limits to what is allowed otherwise society would not be possible.
>The difference is that in BNW most if not all people can live how they please within those limits, while in our societies so far a lot of people want things they can not get.
Individual potential achieval > Collective limitation of potential.

Any society with en masse mental slavery is not a utopia. A slave is a slave even if they do not know they are a slave.

By your definition of utopia, we should just put people into an endless pleasure simulation, where they are loaded up with opiates and pleasure chemicals, eternally in a state of bliss. We could genetically engineer them to never experience pain or unfulfilled desire. They would have complete freedom to do whatever they wanted in the simulation, and everything they did would make them happy. We could fulfill all desires, material, social, psychological, etc.
Would this not be the ultimate utopia?

>Can you imagine being the only lucid man in a society of drug addled mindless workers, the only people you can have meaningful conversations with out of reach and contact?

>He expresses regret at not going into exile with his peers. Can you imagine being the only lucid man in a society of drug addled mindless workers, the only people you can have meaningful conversations with out of reach and contact?
Yes, it's alright.

>Societal values =! indoctrination.
It is, just negatively phrased.

>Any society with en masse mental slavery is not a utopia. A slave is a slave even if they do not know they are a slave.
Which such a wide definition of slavery, freedom is literally impossible.

A pleasant zoo is really all you can hope for, realistically speaking.

>Yes, it's alright.
Don't kid yourself.

>It is, just negatively phrased.
'People agreeing on ideas as a collective democratically' is not 'People forcing their ideas onto other people through genetic manipulation, brainwashing drug addiction unconsensually'

>Which such a wide definition of slavery, freedom is literally impossible.
If freedom is impossible, a utopia closest to freedom is ideal.

>'People agreeing on ideas as a collective democratically' is not 'People forcing their ideas onto other people through genetic manipulation, brainwashing drug addiction unconsensually'

>thinking the real world is the former rather than the latter

get woke

>no parents to love
>no wife that you can be together with for life
>no children to love or take care of
>no art
yeah, sounds great faggot.

the main characters all committed suicide in that world. They all die the way they were born, at another's mercy, in pain.

>>thinking the real world is the former rather than the latter
So you agree that the real world and BNW are not utopias?

Did you miss the part where you can go into voluntary exile with basically no repercussion and do what you want?

If you someone manage to not enjoy life within the society you can just get out.

>Don't kid yourself.
Maybe Mond did hollidays on the Islands or they have a rotation or something. There's not enough info to really judge this.

>'People agreeing on ideas as a collective democratically'
That is not how societal values are formed.

>If freedom is impossible, a utopia closest to freedom is ideal.
And the closest you will get to freedom (which is nothing more than a feeling, really) is being able to do what you want to do.

exile is one of the cruelest punishments there is, and the people who did were tortured to death by mobs who hunted them down when they were in hiding

Which BNW did you read?

>acting like a cunt
the dude in the lighthouse killed himself because a mob hunted him down and tortured him to death

>no free will
>utopia

>Societal values =! indoctrination.
>being this indoctrinated

>That is not how societal values are formed.
In a utopian society, it would be.

You're on so many layers of liberal indoctrination and enlightenment memes our ideas of utopia are too far apart to meaningfully discuss it I think desu.

user that was only because John was an exciting spectacle due to him whipping himself. In Bernard's case he goes to an island with "very pneumatic girls", and his poet friend intentionally asks for an island where he's cut off from human contact to experience loneliness. The savage is clearly the odd one out on these reservations for social discontents.

they all mocked his piety and drove him to suicide while calling him a savage. Their justificiations for their lynching, and his existance in exile being incredibly cruel and dangerous, is why it cannot be a utopia. No utopia has people who go into exile. Because that is proof in of itself that that society cannot accept all people in it, as said by Mary Shelly.

So all they need is CRISPR and good quality control and it's solved because there would be no broken humans anymore and everyone would fit on.

Houellebecqian clitoral citadel as in elementerry

humans' forms are already perfect, there is nothing to add

>biological stockholm syundrome

oh sweatie

I'm not the other user, and I don't see it as a utopia.

>freedom (which is nothing more than a feeling, really)
Fuck off Sartre

yes, they have the freedom to do what they want to do, but wasn't most of the population also intentionally bred to be retarded?

The only way for the working class to be happy is to be retarded.

Of course Huxley wrote almost 100 years ago. If you would rewrite it today you could easily imagine an alternative with no working class at all. Or humans, for that matter.

>he doesn't understand that freedom is it's own prison

>muh spooks
pervert

the working class can simply get an education if money is all it takes to 'be happy' in your retarded view of the world

>if money is all it takes to 'be happy' in your retarded view of the world
False assumption.

...

.

I like the fact you can't tell anymore whether the posts in this thread are ironic or not.

it's called post-irony it's what killing the bloody colleges with postmodern marxism

No, what I mean is that today you have people expressing genuine desire for a brave new world. And I don't meant just depressed and resentful autists on imageboards who see in it their last resort, but the general public, public intellectuals included. Everything must be rendered sterile and controlled in order to optimize our freedom. Ballard was an optimist.
But in a way I like this. It means we have fully surrendered our fate to the system, meaning no regulation, meaning eventual collapse. Any structure requires some poor souls to keep it from falling, those who doubt in its power to stand by itself. Like all those concerned socialists that warn us of irrational economic practices which if unchecked will lead to new global crises - with a moral conclusion that we should inject some regulation to maintain the status quo. It is far more interesting to challenge the system to run on its own.

Read any one of Nietzsche's many diatribes on nihilism and why it's going to be the end of us.

*blinks*

Nihilist banana-dildoing edgelords don't believe in free will.

An important part of humanity is struggle and pain. Without them we'd just be last man that Nietzsche described

I'm not going to tackle the totalitarian and intellectually damning aspects of this utopia as they instantly nullify any inkling of a utopia..

But as far as sexuality is concerned consider the fact that if sex were no longer taboo in any form the act of it would be less enjoyable in the sense that drinking after you're 21 doesn't give you quite the same thrill as it did when you were underage. This is why religion is so paradoxically so critical yet obsessed with sex.

This is also ironically why the most repressed religious types end up being the most sex crazed.

Also, consider the possibility that if sex were constantly available the value of it would diminish. The foreplay, the flirting reduced to habit and monotony.

While I think that being transported to living in a society that were as open to sex as the book is would be bliss for a while; eventually one would get used to it, and it would progressively lose its luster. But fuck for a while it would be fuckin great.

But that already happened.

>a world without pain
>a utopia

delet this

>This is also ironically why the most repressed religious types end up being the most sex crazed.
This is because the best sex is ascetic in nature. Fetishes are delusions.

even if money equal happiness you still need someone doing the shitty and alieanating jobs. The only way anyone can enjoy being a cog at the assembly line is by being either retarded or a robot.

>you still need someone doing the shitty and alieanating jobs
t. drank the dictatorship of the proletariats lordly kool-aid

>someones gotta do it
>and that someone IS YOU

>someones gotta do it
>and that someone IS YOU
legit I don't understand what you're implying. explain yourself in a coherent way

slave morality

thanks for the reminder. i nearly forgot.

Well Nietzsche was retarded so there's that.

how is it relevant to the "the only way someone enjoy being a cog is by being retarded" thesis?

no one is a cog. and no one has to be one. You just lack faith in The Gods

> Fetishes are delusions.
Bassically erotism is a big delusion.

Still most people think is abut putting together a pennis with a vagina.

They want a winnable struggle. Hutler offered an unwinnable one and that is why they lost
Capitalism offers a struggle as well, but it lets the individual pick where the struggle ends. Therefore, it is the superior system

what happens when the struggle ends?
what is struggle did you pick?
why would people pick to struggle just not to starve? (yet most of the people seem to pick this one.)

>he never worked a 15 hours shift of a soul crushing job knowing the only reason you're doing it is because you're cheaper than a robot
I bet the chinese workers aseembling the iPhone X were pround and happy of contributing to Apple's success

they're there because they are impious. Which is purely for themselves, to become more pious. You just drink too much worker's rights kool-aid.

huxley.net/

>t. hedonist scum
Sons éso tse-ná.

They were retarded and happy about it. Even the working class was more happy than most people are in real world. I'd much rather be a perpetually happy designated worker than a crippled depressive mess that wants to die. The book is an utopia for me.

>Even any ant is more happy than most people are in the world.

Moron.

>my life would be better under this system
go build it then faggot. lets see how far you get before you start being a worthless faggot

I'm already worthless, what the fuck makes you think I care? Shit, you're shitposting on Veeky Forums, you're probably completely worthless to the world as well. Not a great argument.

I'm not shitposting I'm completely serious

what kind of fucking argument is that

Tell me how you're not worthless. Go on.

you're the type of personality he was begging us to exhume from existence. Take it as you will, but you're proof that he was right.

its a pipe-dream, just like your understanding of the book.
im all that there can ever be

I'd find it hard to argue.

>no freedom
And no concept of freedom as we know it. Why cry over the not being able to do X, if you neither care nor want to do X in the first place? Nothing is lost. If by any chance to you -an indoctrinated person in BMW- have a concept of freedom like our own, you can go into voluntary exile.

>no art
Voluntary exile. In a society completely ignorant of art, it can only exist for its own sake: art for art. But then you might as well live among other artists in voluntary exile, where your art can actually have a "point".


To quote Zizek: and so on and so on.
Indoctrination and voluntary exile left vague basically stops any argument against the utopistic nature of BNW.

>kid on the internet LARPing that he prefers war and hunger because 'muh meaning'

heh

>And no concept of freedom as we know it.
if people experience a world prior to this utopia you speaking of the majority would reject this notion out right.

>Indoctrination and voluntary exile left vague basically stops any argument against the utopistic nature of BNW.
this is a non argument, this can be extended to any system through indoctrination.

>tfw never frolocked in the garden with virgin qts
>tfw no orgyporgy
>tfw gonna whip myself to death

last men pls go

Really? How are they devoid of struggle and pain, exactly?

war and hunger are far better than the hell depicted in that book you disgusting kike

Are they? Why aren't you deployed somewhere then?

But they don't experience one, that's the point. By the time the story begins the remnants of the old world are basically forgotten.

And indoctrination is the only argument you need, otherwise we're running in useless circles trying to explain a fictional society with information that isn't even in the book.

They were raised to be happy through indoctrination. If they're not happy by any chance, they can choose to leave society and be content elsewhere. The vast majority is happy with the exception of a few: it's utopistic.

They are literally taking happy drug whenever they feel anything close to "struggle and pain"

>an important part of humanity is tuberculosis and human sacrifice, without them we would be different

but thats not true, sure your lonely ass would but i can guarantee you that people would not get bored of sex just like they dont get bored of alcohol.
t.works in pub watching old/middle aged men drink away their remaining years

> filesize
> dimensions
proof gif is teh superior format

>Just a reminder that the society depicted was a utopia

Freedom is limitation
Freedom is law and order

Because of eugenics.

BNW is still the only sci-fi novel I can think of that factors in human stupidity. His solution was based on the caste system. Now we're heading toward idiocracy.

Why would it not be one

Good point.

Muh Civilisation