When I read Tolkien, no matter how incredibly drudging, painfully boring his work is...

When I read Tolkien, no matter how incredibly drudging, painfully boring his work is, I get a sort of a feel that I'm reading a book based on a true story. Every detail feels like it's placed with care and respect, every character feels alive and belonging, and you get a sense of comfort knowing the world is firmly rooted in a thoroughly sculpted mythology and history.

While reading American fantasy literature, it's downright pulp, characters are based off boxers and sluts, there is no coherence in any of the aspects, one character is named after Tolkien's elvish script, another after his dwarven topology, world is a mish-mash of everything thrown at once. Notably Game of Thrones is cringeworthy work, I puke at almost every line.

Why are Americans unable to write high fantasy?

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That's really what keeps you going through the duller sections of Lord of the Rings, and keeps it being one of the best novels ever written.

>Every detail feels like it's placed with care and respect, every character feels alive and belonging, and you get a sense of comfort knowing the world is firmly rooted in a thoroughly sculpted mythology and history.

Any other fantasy book to which this applies?

Tales from earthsea by Ursula K. LeGuin

The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss.

Trolling is one thing but there's no need to be cruel.

What do you mean?

Stop trying to trick innocent people into reading that book.

Thanks

Well, could you explain what you don't like about it?

Gormenghast

Dune does this for sci-fi although the actual writing is a much bigger hurdle than it is for Tolkien, to the point where I don't think I can in good conscience recommend it.

...oh, and the'every character feels alive' thing doesn't apply to Dune either. An impressively constructed setting, though.

>Never in my life has a book so thoroughly emptied my seemingly bottomless well of autistic interest. Is there any main character in the history of fiction less inspired or interesting than the red-haired ladyboy edgelord that is Kvothe/Quoth/Quote/Cunt?
The only reason I would ever fucking consider finishing this series would be to see Quark die at the end. Here's the kicker, though: He fucking won't. The start of the first book is the chronological end to the whole goddamn trilogy, and the third book isn't even out yet.

>Kvothe and Denna are some of the most unlikable characters I think anyone could possibly write. I know the mantra "separate the art from the artist" is good, but Patrick makes it difficult to not look at him as a narcissistic, pretentious virtue signaling neck beard.

>He has a moment where Kvothe, being the hero that he is, defies odds and rescues two girls from being sex trafficked or something. One of the girls then starts crying after a few days of being mute and pulls out the classic "I HATE MEN!!!!" In Kvothes attempt to soothe her he, no joke, says "#notallmen". I have 100 pages left in the second one and have no plans on finishing. I hate it.

1/2

Tom Bombadil always felt just randomly there in LOTR for no reason at all. The giant spider shit as well. But you're right about the rest.

>His flaws don't hurt him in any way, despite how hard Rothfuss tries to pretend that they do.
Boo hoo, he dropped out of uni and became a successful businessman who fights monsters in his spare time, is known across the world for his exploits, has a devoted apprentice who will care for him in sickness and old age and continue his legacy, and has some of the most famous and influential writers in the world miss important meetings just to talk to him. Such a tragedy, Kvothe is just so stunning and brave for having endured that. I simply can't look at him without weeping.

>Kvothe is the most irritating protagonist I've ever encountered. He has no flaws, and the point of the novel seems to be to show how badass he is. It reads like something Dwight Shrute would write. I have no idea how this novel has fans older than 15.

>Kvothe is just such a cliched hero. He's a genius, funny, charismatic, a wizard, a good fighter, a sex god. It's just absurd.
I don't get it. It might be fun if it was a whole satire on the hero genre, but Rothfuss writes everything straight-faced.

>I was recently memed into reading The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. After reading a few chapters, I know only one thing: I want to rape Kvothe. I don't mean that in a metaphorical sense of besting him. I mean I literally want to sexually assault him. Every night I lie awake, imagining Kvothe's screams as I enter his tight pink virginal cunt and shove him back and forth like the world's most expensive fleshlight. He would piss himself from the mind-breaking terror of someone not being bewitched by his godlike intellect and skill, and I would rub his nose in the puddle of piss as if he were a disobedient dog. I would abuse every one of his holes until my balls were completely drained, and then I would leave him twitching pathetically in a pool of cum, blood, piss and vomit. For one last torment to break his will completely and beyond all repair, I would smile and tell him that Tolkien sends his regards.

2/2

I saw that thread when it was posted here, I wasn't asking for a copy paste but for your own personal opinion. Turns out you're so weak minded that you're influenced by random ad hominem arguments on Veeky Forums, either that or you didn't even read the book and just repeats what other people says.

Quite aside from the fact that I wrote much of the above, I'm afraid they're all objective problems with the books.
Also you don't know what ad hominem means.

Objective problems are now based on subject opinions of an iliterate anonymous on Veeky Forums? Riiiight...

Also, I know very well what an ad hominem is, probably more than you...

Yeah I heard good things about Gormenghast as well. Would have probably bought it earlier but I coudn't get over judging this book by its (German edition) cover. I mean look at it. Why do they make these books look like some YA trash romance?
amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/262-0856590-4148230?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&url=search-alias=stripbooks&field-keywords=mervyn peake

illiterate*

Oh, how cute, he couldn't come up with a proper answer and is resorting to more ad hominem.

>I know very well what an ad hominem is
>illiterate anonymous on Veeky Forums
I see what you did there

You do a really great impression of a 15 year old.

Fuck you

Imagine being this of a special snowflake, that you have to write out "I puke at every line" to convince yourself that you are smart.

>Riiiight
>ellipsis
>doesn't know what ad hominem means
>likes the name of the wind
I think you're on the wrong board, kiddo

brb have this story but I'm just gonna throw this Tom Bombadil in here whose whole world system ive spent 1000 pages building doesn't apply to, just because lol.

I've probably read more on philosophy, mathematics and literature in one year than you did in your entire life. But hey, keep being an elitist arrogant pedantic user that reads only fantasy and likes to trash on acclaimed works with sloppery arguments.

>no matter how incredibly drudging, painfully boring his work is

I wish people stopped doing this. OP feels like a 7/10 bait to both sides; but I really think that we need to focus on the fact that it's backwards and counterproductive to put a person's subjective experience into an argument. I'm not a defender of postmodernism. Let's say that there are objective qualities to literary works, but these don't make up the whole value of them. There is always a white space, things that are a matter of discussion and interpretation.
"... no matter how incredibly drudging, painfully boring his work is ..." is a very bland statement and only provokes low quality discussion. It feels out of place. Why did you have to spell it out? I too have my own opinion of Tolkien but I let it rest in my asshole where it belongs until it can contribute to the subject.

Also
>Why are Americans unable to write high fantasy?
That doesn't even make sense. If Tolkien was an American, would you be saying the same thing about the Britts? The question is "Why isn't anyone able to write high fantasy", and unless you're trolling, I've been wondering the same thing for years (read below). I see two possible agents: 1 - Tolkien set the bar too high, and the potential writers that would be able to match him don't even try out of respect, or there simply hasn't been anyone as good as Tolkien yet; 2 - The fantasy genre developed a strong autistic cult of followers, and no academics with the required knowledge and abilities for worldbuilding want to be associated with it.

None that I know of.
>read Tolkien a few times, some passages in Silmarillion have a transformative religious effect on me
>want to read it again
>it would be better to find some new material
>go through the fantasy shelves in bookstores
>spend hours searching the internet
>swords and spells everywhere, characters are shit, can't see any serious research behind the book, not even talking about the prose, no underlying depth of the story

I've probably read more on those subject as well as science, physics and metascience (it's like science but for even smarter people ) in one month than you did in your entire last three lifetimes. I've actually won awards for how much I've read from accredited page counting institutions. I also speak more languages than you and Ive published three novels that are better than your favourite book. But hey, keep being a sad projecting loser who maoes sloppery ad hominems

Sorry you're too dumb to understand Tom Bomb

But Bombadil plays an important part in the story. It's the personification of the fact that no higher power is gonna do your job for you. He feeds you, he pulls you out of the gutter, but you have to finish your journey. His appearance is seemingly random, but directly reminding the reader that there's a higher power that could stop it all on a whim wouldn't be effective. His existence is well justified in Silmarillion, and using him as the element of higher power is better than having elves cry "Eru pls remove Sauron from game".

It's so funny that the start of the discussion was about the quality of The Name of the Wind, but you're insecurities are so big that you had to make it personal and started offending me and anyone who disagrees with you.

His elfic name is Illúvatar, not Eru.

Is there any group of persons more prententius and painfully boring than Tolkienfags? Stop pretending that LOTR has any literary value and neck yourselves.

Oh yeah, the greatest work of fantasy which shaped the whole genre written by the most important scholar on old english at his time has certainly no literary value.

You look like the fag who hates The Name of the Wind, are you brothers? Both sure like meaningless ad hominem.

OK, I have the phrasing "Eru Illúvatar" in my mind for some reason

It's so funny that you're insecurities are so big that you can't stop projecting them. Everyone knows you're sad. Just stop posting

...

Not that guy but both words are his name. Separately or together. I don't think you were wrong to call him Eru initially (save that elves do not communicate with him directly, they would call to varda) maybe I'm missing something though

Bilbo sings this song in fellowship. In one of the chapters that takes place in elronds house

he sticks out like a sore thumb in LOTR. dont care what other works were written to justify his inclusion. it simply doesn't work in LOTR. sorry.

>read Book of Luke
>"WHO THE FUCK IS JESUS THIS IS SO OUT OF PLACE"

His point stands well enough without the Silmarilion justification. Tom Bombadil is an important part of the story. If you can't see that it's you who is wrong, not Tolkien. Sorry.

Do you think that Tom Bombadil is Iluvatar?

It's not an American thing, Tolkein was just a one of a kind detail-obsessed genius

No, I was just pointing out that reading from the middle and expecting to fully know what's happening deserves a hot iron in the ass.

>Tom Bombadil is an important part of the story
In what way? He does nothing. He's presented as some otherworldy being who is disaffected by all rules Tolkien builds up on every other page of LOTR. But not Bombadil, just because magic lol. His justifaction that Bombadil is a personification of this and that concept is not worthy tackling. But I'll do it here anyways. The device of conjuring characters who stick out as sore thumbs for the sole purpose of introducing some concept is a mark of poor quality writing. If Tolkien wanted to use Bombadil as personification of that babble the poster above pointed out, he should have done a much better job of it. Take this fanboyism somewhere else.

Why is your thumb so sore?

Take a look at this fucking philistine.

Good post.

>just because magic lol.
I think this is the part you're struggling with. When something in a book doesn't make sense it can help to ask why it's there rather than throwing up your hands and declaring it stupid. Tom sings all the time, the ring has no power over him, he has a very distinct set of earthly concerns. What do these things say about him and what does he say about those things. The answers to questions of this nature lead to a richer understanding of the book than if Tom wasn't in it at all.

No, I think the part you're struggling with is understanding that if he wanted to bring this concept into the book, he should have done it in a way where it makes sense character-wise. But he didn't, he brought in a one-dimensional character almost exclusively for the purpose to insert a concept he had in mind beforehand. And it didn't work. You can even see the almost apologetic tone of his quotes on Bombadil's wiki page when he tries to justify him. HE knows it too. Pack it up boys. Tour is over.

>The fantasy genre developed a strong autistic cult of followers, and no academics with the required knowledge and abilities for worldbuilding want to be associated with it.
To add to this. I dont know that fantasy fans would be able to detect the "next Tolkien" most people I know who read fantasy don't like Tolkien or show only a kind of requisite token appreciation. If I ever mention that I like LotR invariably I'll be recommended name of the wind or Brandon Sanderson. If LotR were published today I don't know that it would be able to make a big enough splash on the fantasy market to escape and become recognised as a work of merit

>You can even see the almost apologetic tone of his quotes on Bombadil's wiki page
So you're bad at reading and as an ego defence you read embarasment into the tone of wikipedia pages so you can imagine everyone agrees with you

No that was only the final point proving that even Tolkien knows what I stated. Not surprisingly, you have absolutely no counter-argument against the criticism I made before that.

What counter argument can I offer? You've chosen a reductive view of the character. I can't force you to become more open to accepting beauty where it exists. If you think Tom Bombadils inclusion was dumb the only thing I can do is call you dumb and hope that one day you have enough sense to internalize the message

Have you read the theory that Tom Bombadil is an evil older and more powerful than Sauron? Implausible but more fun than the 'good Tom' theories

fooken shite

I'm pretty sure he's the witchking of angmar. Think about it. You never see the two of them at the same time!

What is it that you're accusing Bombadil of? Not being influenced by the Ring? Faramir resists its influence purely by strength of will. Do you think this is poor writing as well?

Tom existed well before Sauron made the Ring and is likely more powerful than Sauron. He's just entirely unconcerned by matters outside of his woods and I believe he only has power within those woods. He's an anomaly in that he's a being great power still existing in Third Age, an age which is scraping the bottom of the barrel as magic and powerful entities goes--most of them are dead or destroyed or have fled Middle Earth. Tom is unique in that he is an example of a power of antiquity still in Middle Earth during LOTR, and he exists entirely outside of Sauron's influence. I don't see Tom's rejection of the Ring as incongruous with the rest of the story as Sauron is never intended to be a great omnipresent, omniscient power. He's certainly a threat to the mortal being that the story actually follows but Tom is given plenty of written justification in the Fellowship as to why he exists in the manner that he does and it isn't nearly so slapdash as you make it out to be.

Could you link it or point to where one could find it? Sounds like a fun read.

>Kvothe is just such a cliched hero. He's a genius, funny, charismatic, a wizard, a good fighter, a sex god. It's just absurd.

Are there different versions of that book or what? Kvothe was only a genius naturally, he became those other things over the course of the story.

>funny - about as as funny as your regular Joe can be throughout the story
>charismatic - definitely not. His was a fucking twat.
>a wizard - he went to school for that during the book, learning to be a wizard was one of the main selling points of the book.
>a good fighter - he wasn't a good fighter for most of the book until he went to visit those boring mountain people
>sex god - one portion of the book has Kvothe trapped in another dimension with a god of lust who has sex with him 24/7 for several years in a row. that tends to teach one a bit about having sex

flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/bombadil.htm

>trapped in another dimension with a god of lust who has sex with him 24/7 for several years
If I didn't think it was genre trash before this would have convinced me