Are there any good books on this topic that aren't normie emotionally manipulative shite? I'm not a vegetarian (I pick my fights and believe there are bigger fights to fight as of now), but am interested in learning more about the topic.
>Inb4 veganism is a mental illness
Well it's going to be Peter singer isn't it? He is a strict utilitarian and that's how he approaches the issue. I was at a talk of his once and someone said "if we shut down the beef industry me and my family won't have jobs" and Singer basically shrugged and said "get other jobs". Whatever you think of him as a person, that response in the public sphere was awesome to watch.
>Peter Singer: it's wrong to kill and eat fish because "feelings"
>Peter Singer: it's moral to abort babies because "no feelings"
Pic related.
>hedonism for the mob
the epitome of utilitarian moral thought.
Well done, you've created another abonemable mutant strawretard set loose in the world to join the horde and eat brains.
Check out David Oderberg, the man who btfo everything Singer ever said.
Wait are vegetarians allowed to take antibiotics? There is so much that is arbitrary in their ethics.
>people who kill in warfare are hypocrites for not being serial killers in their normal lives as well
No it is hypocritical to consider the killing done in wartime any less repugnant than what a serial killer does. Again that is arbitrary. Btw a bacteria is not a willing enemy combatant.
I'm a vegetarian out of ecological and economic concerns. Factory farming and fresh water misuse (you can get a kilo of rice out of 3000 litres and a kilo of beef from 15,000) is what I'm mainly against, I think things should be more localised and have no problem with someone ethically killing an animal they reared as long as it's a quick, painless death. There's really no reason to think germs have fucking qualia, dude, why would I worry about that? Anyway, if germs were self-aware, there's the argument that I need them to help me with whatever medical ailment. (There's arguments against antibiotics, but that's another one e.g. Super Germs). Singer is a utilitarian, it makes sense in his framework to kill something for a "greater good".
A kilo of beef has a lot more energy value than a kilo of rice, making the comparison extremely stupid. Meat is high energy, rice is not.
All fine and good but who are you protecting when you conserve water, who does it serve?
Context is not arbitrary.
Singer is retarded but doesn’t really appeal to emotion, so read him if you like
Hello thomist Croat
It certainly is because there is no context without an entity who defines it and that entity is arbitrary.
Is that why carnists are so fat, because they overfill themselves with joules they don't need? Pretty sure a kilo of rice per week will fare better than a kilo of beef. Anyway, greenhouse gases from bovines or sheep (they fart a lot) is bad for the ozone. Growing more crops will help bring down CO2 (photosynthesis). Even swapping to insects is a great idea, I'm completely good for switching to a high-protein diet that wont take up huge swathes of land, energy, water, petrol, etc. Insects don't really need an "ethical" death, but you can kill them easily by just freezing them.
Heard of global warming?
>I'm not a vegetarian (I pick my fights and believe there are bigger fights to fight as of now)
How would being vegetarian prevent you from fighting those fights?
t. Soyboy
There is no factual basis for assuming your choice to not eat meat will have any meaningful impact on the process of global warming.
I don't know. It seems to be a big thing for political types to say that vegetarians are anti-human or not concerned with human suffering. This usually comes from those oh-so-sensitive Marxist-Leninists, in my experience. They think all vegans are secret liberal capitalist lifestylists or something.
>bad for the ozone
Wow you’re ancient, the ozone layer fares better than ever today
I actually don't like soy products because they taste like arse, but I'm sure you have some very scholarly sources to say that your shit diet makes you masc
Yes, my one choice will do nothing. I think everyone else will have to do a lot to curb global warming, but I may as well do as I preach, eh? Leading by example is not only the first way to change other people's minds, it helps me not being a hypocrite
>growing more crops will bring down CO2
Hello, brainlet. Crops literally mean nothing in CO2 consumption, just like the forests. It`s all about the ocean flora, buddy. Look it up.
>Be careful not wear spiritualism as a badge to decorate your ego
>Wears spiritualism as a badge to decorate his ego
almonds = activated
Nice digits. I think hypocrisy is only manifest in preachers, professors etc. Those roles are inherently hypocritical, since to profess something as true one is excluding the truth of all contingent or opposite truth claims (which brings up whether truth is a dialectic or paradox); if you aren't a preacher or professor you can not be a hypocrite. As for global warming, the mere action of participation in the internet infrastructure is creating a negative impact there. The problem is we are forced to live within a framework that is destructive to the environment and perhaps dehumanizing and at the same time presented with arbitrary and impotent choices which are supposed to define us, thereby shifting culpability away from those who derive the greates benefit from earth's destruction, warfare etc. Existentialism is weaponized in public relations and advertising.
>entities are arbitrary
what does this even mean?
Utterly wrong and a trip fag
Meaning there is no transcendent, a priori entity to define context and therefore any privilege of definition is inherently arbitrary, contingent and transigent.
>tripfag
Hello r*ddit
>Look it up
Give me something more substantial than that. All I'm getting is shit about sea acidification. I can access journal articles if you have names.
I have actually never once been to that website and have been coming to Veeky Forums since before Veeky Forums
Hello someone who recognises my shills.
I'll mention Garrigou-Lagrange here because I'm on a shill mission with him as well.
And you still don't know what trips are.
So because other people would call you a soyboy?
In my experience the vegetarians are marxist soyboys.
try oryx and crake
The enchanted broccoli forest is half cookbook half collection of historical writings about veganism/vegetarianism.
>37 replies
>no savitri devi
All animals get their energy from plants. This means that meat is fundamentally orders of magnitude more wasteful as an energy source. To get a piece of meat worth 100 calories, the animal has to be raised and fed for years, and consumes way more than 100 calories.
IIRC more grain in USA is used to feed livestock than humans..
Human and animal life contributes to global warming so we should kill all humans and animals. Once that has happened the plants will consume too much co2 and produce to much o2 pushing the balance too far the other way so we need to kill all plants as well. The same is true for other forms of life. To save the earth we need to end all life.
It's not arbitrary really arbitrary. From an utilitarian perspective, bacteria don't have the capacity to suffer, and killing them increases the happiness in those in which they're killed.
Other frameworks also make it not arbitrary too.
>soyboy
Do you actually think vegetarians or vegans just eat soy products? There's more soy in the processed foods you eat than in my diet. I usually eat lots of rice, beans, lentils, etc. with fresh vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, capsicums, etc. Soy is used for meat substitutes, it's barely in any food I or my girlfriend eat because we don't like to spend heaps of money on shitty meat substitutes. They're a treat, not a staple meal.
>In my experience
You haven't been outside, let alone actually talk to any Marxists - you probably think anyone who liked Bernie Sanders was a hardened socialist.
>They think all vegans are secret liberal capitalist lifestylists or something
Um have you ever been to a vegan restaurant or market before?
pls explain how second tri fetuses have a more developed nervous system than fish
or, just have a balance.
that would be a "name fag"
I don't think you have. Not everyone with an unnatural hair colour is a tankie, darling.
Then meet me at Little Pine at 5 o'clock faggot
>tfw blew a tranny the fuck out on twitter who said they were a vegan and I pointed out they are consuming horse piss by taking the hormones
>Little Pine
"It was founded by electronic musician and animal rights activist Moby." Ah yes, the insurrectionary communist, Moby, worth $28 mil.
>i will die for the right of chickens to be comfy
>You're going to have to shoot me to get me off this tree, logger man
>murdering babies is a human right
the absolute state of wypipo
>I pick my fights and believe there are bigger fights to fight as of now
this is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, in that a) 'picking this fight' in literally no way precludes you picking a bunch of other, 'bigger' fights at the same time and b) I fucking guarantee that you are actually not involved in any way in any kind of bigger fight even right now.
Not necessarily on animal ethics but somewhat related, I recommend the preface of Jurassic Park .
shadilayyyy
I'm pretty sure terminating an unborn child is a bit different to "murder". Anyway, if you at all understood utilitarianism or anti-natalism, you wouldn't make this dumb greentext, which is not at all contradictory.
>murder and dismember a baby, sell its parts
>comfort a chicken
>Eat a lettuce sandwich
>all is right with the world
>wypipo
>the absolute state
>comfort a chicken
That's not the aim of vegetarianism, fuckwit. Chickens shouldn't be bred like fucking cage mutants though. If a child can't be taken care of, what's the point of forcing someone to have it and give it up to the shitty adoption/foster care program? I bet you haven't adopted anyone yet.
"terminating" I like that, that's a good euphemism.
Bruh you Really Care about chickens being comfy and have no problem with slaughtering babies and harvesting pieces from their corpses.
look at this dismembered baby, poor thing
I can't eat gluten or dairy, animal meat is one of the few products that I can eat, and contains enough protein outside of disgusting vegan protein drinks. Taking away that last enjoyment would make me depressed.
>I can't eat gluten or dairy, animal meat is one of the few products that I can eat
Lel. There are a lot more things to eat than wheat, milk and meat other than 'protein drinks'.
I don’t mind soy stuff. You just have to flavour it right.
I’m lactose intolerant so if I want some sort of milk like product I’m stuck with soy or almond milk. It’s not too bad, definitely doesn’t taste like milk. But it doesn’t give me diarrhoea.
>Are there any good books on this topic that aren't normie emotionally manipulative shite?
Well there are no arguments for vegetarianism that aren't emotionally manipulative shite and there's not really a need to write a book defending eating meat, so not.
Many enemy combatants are not willing enemy combatants, since conscription exists.
>All animals get their energy from plants
And plants from animals via poop. You know, what's necessary to grow crops.
>believe there are bigger fights to fight as of now
You realize that everyone lowering their meat consumption would also have huge benefits for environment, right? Becoming a vegetarian is the most simple way to combat climate change without a massive effect on your life.
>emotionally manipulative shite
What does this even mean? Most debates about ethics are about "muh feelz". There is no practical reason, not to torture someone if you can get away with it and if it's possible to avoid the consequences of a torture happy society.
How on earth is prioritizing the feelings of animals utilitarian? He sounds more like a spoiled, callous, moralizing radical than anything else. You can't prove that "freed" farm animals are of more use to us than farmed farm aninals, because they're not.
Sad, really sad, to see this thread so full of literal soyboys and idiotic therapeutic deists living pretentious lives and following disorganized and mongrelized moral codes. Your brain is like a ghetto of tacked-together facebook infographics and TEDtalks that literally contradict eachother with no unifying principles, and yet you have the gall to tell us we're in the wrong.
For me, the climate change argument puts an end to it. If you have any sense of obligation to future generations than you should try to eat less meat.
The "emotionally manipulative shite," like easing animal suffering, is just a bonus good deed.
Wow, nice rant. Glad you were able to use my post as a launching off pad, but eegads man none of what you were accusing of was in it.
Im saying Moby is the capitalist. You're original post states that Marxists complain about vegans.
>Existentialism is weaponized in public relations and advertising.
I think I actually heard your brain deflating to total flaccidity from all the way over here.
>Your brain is like a ghetto of tacked-together facebook infographics and TEDtalks that literally contradict eachother with no unifying principles
One of the key pros of util'ism is its single unified principle. You won't get that from virtue ethics. Would you mind telling me exactly which formal ethics you subscribe to?
>Sad, really sad, to see this thread so full of literal soyboys
Tell me in which part of your pristine hierarchy of ideas lives the abjuration of soy?
>>murder and dismember a baby, sell its parts
>actually believing this myth.
Plants dont need animals to exist
HOLY shit is the bait you fucking moron newfag? What board am I on?
St. Philip Neri
St. Francis of Assisi
>How on earth is prioritizing the feelings of animals utilitarian?
uhh...are you serious right now?
what makes someone want to go on the internet and lie?
> no carnitine
> no omega 3s
> no zinc
> no cholesterol (needed for vitamin D metabolism)
> no glycine (enjoy your OCD and generalized anxiety, you balding vegan manlet)
> deficiencies in certain amino acids
this man knows, stay close to your food source, respect the animals that you kill
I will post it again.
"Degenerates, degenerates, they will turn into monkeys." - Zizek, on vegetarians
Im a vegan because I want to have pretty skin and hair and look 20 when I'm 40
couldnt give a fuck about the planet and animal suffering
all the other vegans are faggots
singer supports after-birth "abortion"
What do you propose we base morality from if not pleasure?
Your vote will not have any meaningful impact in any election.
Your choice to protest on the street will not have any meaningful impact.
Your choice to recycle will have no meaningful impact.
The Omnivore's Dilemma and the rest of Pollin's work is a good midway point
How do you eat soy? To me it tastes like absolute garbage but I should eat more of it desu
It's ok that you choose to be amoral just because you have no faith in yourself
Shit I have plants in my backyard, but wait a minute, there's no animal shitting on them so that's impossible!
Animal Farm
>how the FUCK is prioritizing the interests of beings other than myself utilitarian!?!?
Gee I don't know..
You are the reason people hate vegans.
I'm not that mean outside of anonymous forums.
But I believe what I said.
What would vegetarians do if there came definitive proof that plants experience suffering when killed? Will you guys opt out of eating plants too?
> a ghetto of tacked-together facebook infographics and TEDtalks
dat rhizome
The burden of self-consistency is the real self defeating guilt trip.
Personally, I've tried to stop making decisions with respect to abstracts and absolutes. Rather, I try to cultivate a personal ethical and moral engagement that arises from feeling rather than thinking.
I started lowering my meat consumption on the basis of ecological considerations. This was not so much a "I am solving the problem" but a "I want to explore the problem and exercise some of the choices I still have wrt to the matter".
What led me to stop eating meat entirely was an overwhelming feeling of disgust at watching a commercial for some McArby King sandwich that had fluffy slices of meat flying past the camera. It was like watching a particularly brutal rekt video. Instead of my brain seeing "food" it saw "body parts". The abstract connection that I made between the two had become a physical, lived connection. Nowadays, what keeps me most on the wagon is a feeling of disgust. I'll still talk with people about how yummy certain meat dishes are, but I'll also give people shit for shoving corpses into their mouths and having their body be the literal sewer of a slaughterhouse.
Basically, I just want to be pure like everyone else.
But that won't happen?
>kill them easily by just freezing them
Why don't we do that for vertebrates too? They mostly end up in the freezer anyway.
Just wait.
peter singer isn't even against killing animals you fucking retard. He is only against making them suffer. Not a single one of you have read any of his work. Holy shit.
I fucking hate you all. How can you be such a smug faggot yet such a brainless piece of shit at the same time?
>Low IQ: The post