Newbie here, What is the best translation of The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoyevsky?

Thoughts on the Ignat Avsey translation?

> Should I ignore that Pevear and Volkhonsky are proud amateurs reinventing translation and pretending that hard problems without definite answers with which professionals concern themselves do not exist?

BTW, young Nabokov translated (adopted? transposed?) the whole Alice in Wonderland into Russian, it was his first big work. There's a reason why it is rarely discussed, though.

This.
If you are into literature and want to learn a second/third language, you should learn Russian.

There's not a lot to do with semi-learned Russian, while semi-learned Japanese makes you opinion maker on /a/ and /jp/. What would be better for your CV?

There IS a consensus and there IS a chart of translations for Dostoevsky, but I can't find it rn

McDuff and Avsey are good choices if you feel a bit uncomfortable with Garnett's stilted prose and P&V's quirkiness like me. Ultimately though, for a writer like Dostoevsky, the translation isn't as much about faithfulness as it is about preference since he's not much of a prose stylist.

Chinese or German if youre going for CV
But we are not discussing CV we are discussing reading

The best for Anglophones

The other translations ive read gave me no sense of difference between authors. I started on two library books and stylistically they sounded the same. At least with P&V, I feel like im reading different authors

RRRRRRRRRAGEPOST!

As mentioned, The Pevearsion of Russian Literature
thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

Congratulations, you posted a bunch of blogs.

Try reading these discussions.

*Blogs
ftfy

p.s. If you want us to read something, type out a coherent argument & post it here in the thread.
We don't want to go fishing through your links to find your point for you.

1. Open the first unread link.
2. Start reading coherent arguments on your own.
3. Repeat.

Otherwise, make a complete fool of yourself by not getting that Pevear himself participated in a flamewar in NYT '''''blog'''''.

This bunch of links to real discussion on translation quality should be enough for any smart person who is unfortunate to visit regular P&V threads.

Or you could just post your argument rather than posting a wall of links & basically saying "Educate yourself" like a tumblrista circa 2014.

You could also use one of those links as a source and post your link: www.FaggotQuarterly.cock/how-to-be-a-massive-faggot/
And then say something along the lines of "And here in this article it says how I am being a massive Faggot"

I guess you are simply unable to read long texts, and demanding the TL;DR is just a reflex. In that case, you are right: there is almost no difference between translations if you only read the synopsis.

I'm not asking for tl:dr. I am asking for you to post your argument and defend it with your links.
Because when you just post a wall of links sans a point other than "ha ha look at all my citations", it does two things: Shit up the discussion and prove that you are incapable of composing an actual coherent response that is not copy&paste spam.

If you've read about P&V “method” and don't find it fishy; if you've read the endemic praise for their translations and don't find it severely lacking in substance; if you don't crave for real scrutiny afterwards, these links won't probably interest you. Get what's advertised on washing powder package, like everyone does.

not him, but this is true. Make a stance yourself, in your own words.

> Pevear and Volkhonsky are proud amateurs reinventing translation and pretending that hard problems without definite answers with which professionals concern themselves do not exist

Fair enough. Which translator do you read, or do you read the originals or?

> do you read the originals
Yes, I do.

This guy is a pseud who never posted any actual criticism or useful advice. Ignore him.

So I should keep reading my pevear/volkhonsky translations and enjoy them?

Read the Translation that you want to and switch to a different one if you don't like it.

They leave bad taste. You are not just reading the book to get *bits of information*, are you? The language itself is important. Choose someone who knows what they are doing.

Why is The house of the dead so boring, when Notes from the underground, the crocodile, the double and Crime and punishment are so good?

Здpaвcтвycтй мyдaки. Кaк дeлa?

>The house of the dead
Maybe because you are reading a translator who couldn't even get title correct.

P&V, unlike you, are professional translators; they objectively know what they are doing.
You can criticize them all you want & there are certainly things to be criticized but, hyperbolic squawking of "choose someone who knows what they are doing" is not in any helpful to the discussion.

Learn Russian and read the actual book. Translations are always shit.

youtube.com/watch?v=DWmUHNpOJxI

>P&V are professional translators
Have they recently took some monthly courses? As they told it, they didn't have professional qualifications, and expressed no need to get any. They are just as professional as me.

…Actually, that's the twist: I am sure that my translations of Russian prose into English would be as horrible as theirs. I have too little feeling for a language and naturally resort to choosing phrases that seem to click, making the result a mishmash of styles that has zero reflection of the original tone.

There's literally no reason to learn Russian if you don't already master English, French, German, Italian, Latin and ancient Greek

Andrew H. Macandrew is the best translation imo

very true to the original Russian text, but not clunky or awkward, it has style in English

Ignat Avsey for TBK (also has very good notes); McDuff for C&P

It may be more useful than Italian, Latin and ancient Greek for your normal life

Which translation sounds most russian? I've read some of the translations in english, can't remember which, but I don't like it when it feels like you're reading about english characters in russia. I want my russians to feel russian.

Some of the swedish translations I've read were better.

>Translations are always shit.
Not italian ones.

>reading english translations when you're not a native anglophone
cuck

> I don't like it when it feels like you're reading about english characters in russia. I want my russians to feel russian.

I guess they add evil characters with thick accents in Hollywood movies for people like you.

>calling a swede a cuck
water is wet

welcome newfag that is not how you argue on Veeky Forums, type out your argument or fuck off back to red it, noone is going to read a single one of those lowbrow blogs articles let alone all 8 of them.

Bashing P&V is easy work and you have failed to do so.

Dumb question but why do Dosto's novels always have places names like "K----- street" or "D----- Village"?

It's not just Dostoyevski, you'll encounter that in a lot of nineteenth century prose.

What's the significance of it though? I didn't remember if it was in the Tolstoy I've read, just came up because it was in those excerpts

P&V
Garnett
McDuff
Avsey
MacAndrew

Who is the best?

> newbie
> he thinks he's going to start with The Brothers Karamazov

hm you're gonna b kill, sweetie

OP is a probably a big boy and will be fine, but I agree to a certain extent - Crime and Punishment is a much better starting point with Mr Forehead

I only read notes from underground and brothers Karamazov and it was no problem at all. Why shouldn't you start with brothers Karamazov?

Avsey
Matlaw rev. Garnett
MacAndrew
McDuff
P&V
Garnett

Avsey and McDuff are the best. Revised Garnett is fine. P&V and original Garnett are cancer and should be avoided like the plague unless you have no choice or don't care about translations.
t. экчyaл paшн

>Why shouldn't you start with brothers Karamazov?
No reason not to, it's just some retarded pseud clumsily trying to be elitist. C&P are mandatory reading in Russian high-schools, Karamazovs are recommended reading. The latter is slightly more complex perhaps, but still most 16 year olds get through it without any trouble.

jesus christ that first article fucking destroys them

I'm not that guy but one time i heard/read that it was so that it can't be connected to actual persons because the writer would draw inspiration for his characters from a real life person.

>newfag
>le Veeky Forums rules
>no one is going to read (Veeky Forums)
Please vacate the premises of my non-brainlet board, /pol/eddit.

I don't see the problem.

Everyone can act russian, but that's not really what I'm going for. You don't get it, that's okay.

I'm not swedish though, I just live here for the time being.

>translations

If I read P&V will I be considered a fraud?
I've narrowed it down to Avsey, P&V, and MacAndrew. Each have their advantages, but I believe P&V translated the below passage (please, correct me if I'm wrong) and I think it's beautiful.

Filled with rapture, his soul yearned for freedom, space, vastness. Over him the heavenly dome, full of quiet, shining stars, hung boundlessly. From the zenith to the horizon the still-dim Milky Way stretched its double strand. Night, fresh and quiet, almost unstirring, enveloped the earth. The white towers and golden domes of the church gleamed in the sapphire sky. The luxuriant autumn flowers in the flowerbeds near the house had fallen asleep until morning. The silence of the earth seemed to merge with the silence of the heavens, the mystery of the earth touched the mystery of the stars... Alyosha stood gazing and suddenly, as if he had been cut down, threw himself to the earth.

I compared this to McDuff's and it didn't generate nearly as much emotion. I know it's not fair to judge a translator like this but still, it's a good passage. My final question is, dear Dostoevsky experts: which version channels the pure, raw emotion from Dostoevsky? Which one just shows you all of his original beauty and hits you like a big existential train?

>If I read P&V will I be considered a fraud?
No. P&V are the academic standard. Everyone in the English speaking world who actually studies Russian literature reads P&V and more importantly quotes P&V's translation.
The reason that everyone on Veeky Forums hates P&V is because the an article was published with a negative review of P&V and a bunch of r/books tier blogs saw and copied it. Now people who have never read anything other than Garnett spam copypasta on Veeky Forums about how P&V "are post-modernist hack frauds DESTROYING Russian Literature" in order to feel better about themselves.
I like P&V. They are clunky at times but so was Dostoyevsky(remember he was never an elitist prose stylist. Dostoyevsky was always a serialized writer for the masses similar to how Charles Dickens was serialized).

tl;dr 80% of the people on this site are retarded 19 year old copycats of opinion that you shouldn't take seriously. If you like a translation, read that translation.

Now I'm starting to think the unrevised Garnett might be the way to go. Is this crazy?

Yes. Unrevised Garnett is the only wrong answer to the translation question.

Kek this

No, it's a good translation.

Does anyone else's P&V translation not have the famous epigraph? It literally just begins on chapter 1?

I swear there are two P&V translations. One with the introduction and epigraph and one that just begins on ch 1.

I was wondering this as well

Bumping

I have P&V with the introduction, forward, and John 12:24. Red Cover.

as the other user said, it's so authors can cover their inspirational tracks. another side effect is that it has this universalizing quality — think "Anytown, USA" or the nondescript Springfield of the Simpsons.

but really, d-stoy took a lot of stories from the newspapers and just copypasta'd them in; ivan's speech in "Rebellion" is the clearest example.

I haven't read MacAndrew, but this is otherwise the right answer.

I believe the emotion comes from the dream before that smooth and peaceful finale. (By the way, the original quote in Russian is smooth, even generic, prose.)

I agree that Britney Spears is bigger artist than other pop stars… You don't even understand how wrong and media-driven your opinions are.

The joke is, with Pevear and Volkhonsky, you never know if there is a particularity that they adequately translated, if there is a particularity they failed to translate, or if there's a particularity they introduced themselves. Also, they don't seem to care about the text as a whole, and it's useless to talk about style when you only work with its parts.