1-What writer do you consider the greatest of all time?

I want Yuja Wang to step on my dick

I want Yuja Wang to step on my Yuge Wang.

>Faulkner
>Nabokov
>absalom, absalom!
>invitation to a beheading
>petersburg
>dead souls
>portrait of the artist

1.Goethe
2.Steinbeck
3.
Catch-22
Of Mice and Men
The Old man and the Sea
Heart of Darkness
Paradise Lost

>1-What writer do you consider the greatest of all time?
james joyce
>2-What is your favorite writer?
james joyce
>3-Your top five novels
>ulysses
>moby dick
>the devil to pay in the backlands
>the iliad
>the divine comedy

will start finnegans wake soon, some of those might get replaced

Bump

can anyone find a pic of her feet?

I know is not the same thing, but is still very hot:

.com/

yujawang/videos/10155611805655629/

(just

1-write "facebook" between the www and the .com on the first part of the link

2-glue the two bits of the link together

I am having trouble to post them because Veeky Forums is thinking that it is spam)

>pretty much every respected source names him the greatest,
You nice credulous cuck. All those sources pop out from the imperialist Anglos. Anyone with a slightly decent knowledge of the history of Literature knows that the greatest was Dante.

Nope.

I am not an Anglo and not from an English speaking country, but Shakespeare outshines Dante by far. I won’t get much into detail, but you can simply notice some main facts:

>Shakespeare’s poetic language is more varied, more inventive and bolder than Dante. He dares much more with his metaphors, and his imagery is unparalleled among all the writers of the world. Like Nabokov said, his poetical texture is the greatest the world has ever known.

>He created many more characters than Dante, and analyzed them with more care and incisiveness. His characters are also more varied, and his women are much more palpable and realistic than the idealized examples in Dante’s work.

>Shakespeare is, for the most part of his work, neutral: he does not adhere to any credo or defend a particular vision or philosophy of the world. Once again he is more varied than Dante.

>Shakespeare produced more different worlds than Dante. His complete plays, taken together, are a larger and more diverse universe than the whole tree Cantos of the Comedia. To go from the atmosphere of Macbeth to that of Twelfth Night is to enter two completely different worlds, and the same with Hamlet and A Midssumer Night Dream, for example, or with Henry IV and The Tempest.

make a formula:

>face***k.com/ (+)
yujawang/videos/10155611805655629/

face***k.com/
(+)
yujawang/videos/10155611805655629/

>m-muh variety
KEK. Do you know what's poetry?

Also, give the source of that gibberish. I might think it's all you quoting yourself with memey reddit-arrows.

I'm I gonna get memed if I try this ?

I disagree with all of that. There's no need to foolishly bring quotes as you did, but The Divine Comedy simply contains more "absolute beauty" than all the Shakespeare's plays taken together. Not to mention that Dante's sonnets are vastly superior than Shakespeare's ones.

Nabokov:

>“The verbal poetical texture of Shakespeare is the greatest the world has ever known, and is immensely superior to the structure of his plays as plays. With Shakespeare, it is the metaphor that’s the thing, not the play.”

To see it quoted on a book:

books.google.com.br/books?id=iBiSDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA140&dq=The verbal poetical texture of Shakespeare is the greatest the world has ever known, and is immensely superior to the structure of his plays as plays. With Shakespeare, it is the metaphor that’s the thing, not the play&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih8PiivfjXAhVBI5AKHSqmCDIQ6AEIRjAE#v=onepage&q=The verbal poetical texture of Shakespeare is the greatest the world has ever known, and is immensely superior to the structure of his plays as plays. With Shakespeare, it is the metaphor that’s the thing, not the play&f=false

If you are willing to really dig deep into Shakespeare's language, apart from reading his plays (I would suggest you start with Hamlet, Macbeth, Othello, King Lear, A Midsummer Night Dream, The Tempest and Henry IV), I would suggest some great technical studies:

>Shakespeare’s Imagery, by Caroline Spurgeon;
>Shakespeare’s Language, by Frank Kermode;
>Shakespeare’s Metrical Art, by George T. Wright;
>The Development of Shakespeare’s imagery, by Wolfgang Clemen;
>The Poetry of Shakespeare’s Plays, by F.E. halliday;
>Shakespeare’s Uses of The Arts of Language, by Sister Mirian Joseph;
>The Language of Shakespeare’s Plays, by B. Ifor Evans
>Shakespeare, by Mark Van Doren

And if you want to get just a selection of the best excerpts from the plays, you can look this book:

books.google.com.br/books?id=h2hZAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR12&dq=the beauties of shakespeare&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikzIPQvfjXAhVHiZAKHXThD3wQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=the beauties of shakespeare&f=false

You're just a fucking meme

>Not to mention that Dante's sonnets are vastly superior than Shakespeare's ones.

Nope. Shakespeare sonnets have more beautiful and complex metaphors and more colorful imagery. They may refer to themes that don’t sound as interesting, but they sure are much more drenched with meaning (his lines are more dense) than the Dante sonnets.

Most of Dante’s similes and metaphors are actually quite conventional and found in many other poets.

I just don’t take things based on authority and hear say.

Also, I strongly suspect that you people are rooting for Dante only because you are Italians or Catholics or something, and that would be quite childish and dishonest.

nope.

Is a video a friend of hers made by mixing many sexy moments of her performances. She thought it was so funny she posted the video on her Facebook herself.

I just used this formula:

because Veeky Forums is not allowing me to post the link (it thinks that is span)

You don't get Dante (or you have never actually read it, which is very likely). I get back to reading, goodbye dude.

>the whole tree Cantos of the Comedia
kekd. there are 100 cantos on DC dear friend.

and as user said, do you even poetry? why are you using character creation as arguments when in DC it is all about historical and political figures from the greeks up to dante's contemporaries? and all the dialogues are few lines long with each of these figures. As user said, DC has much more beauty in it.

and why are you quoting the hack that is nabokov like he was the a god is beyond me

>not getting the Divine Comedy is the most perfect blend of history and fiction (as well as every other imaginable literary opposites) ever created by a man

make your case, Luiggi.

Look at how simple and plain this is:

« Tanto gentile e tanto onesta pare
la donna mia, quand'ella altrui saluta,
ch'ogne lingua devèn, tremando, muta,
e li occhi no l'ardiscon di guardare. 4

Ella si va, sentendosi laudare,
benignamente d'umiltà vestuta,
e par che sia una cosa venuta
da cielo in terra a miracol mostrare. 8

Mostrasi sì piacente a chi la mira
che dà per li occhi una dolcezza al core,
che 'ntender no la può chi no la prova; 11

e par che de la sua labbia si mova
un spirito soave pien d'amore,
che va dicendo a l'anima: Sospira.

Now compare with this:

Devouring Time, blunt thou the lion's paws,
And make the earth devour her own sweet brood;
Pluck the keen teeth from the fierce tiger's jaws,
And burn the long-lived phoenix in her blood;
Make glad and sorry seasons as thou fleet'st,
And do whate'er thou wilt, swift-footed Time,
To the wide world and all her fading sweets;
But I forbid thee one most heinous crime:
O! carve not with thy hours my love's fair brow,
Nor draw no lines there with thine antique pen;
Him in thy course untainted do allow
For beauty's pattern to succeeding men.
Yet, do thy worst old Time: despite thy wrong,
My love shall in my verse ever live young.

Notice with how much more images and information shakespeare stuffs his sonnet with.

That is just one example, but the same thing happens hundreds of times.

all italy-fags

all anglo-fags

Sì, io parlo e ho letto libri in italiano, mas não, não sou italiano, sou brasileiro. Se não gostou vá te lascar. Faggot

No. I () am Brazilian.

But you just confirmed you are Italian, so we can pretty much discredit your commentaries as mere patriotism.

hahaha, então você é brasileiro também?

Shakespeare é muito melhor, sinto muito.

>analysing poetry with numerical, arbitrary and (alleged) rational arguments
This is why you should not even read poetry. Give up, seriously.

Cervantes
Dostoyevsky
TBK
Anne Karenina
The Idiot
The Master and Margarita
Lolita

If you only knew, my friend, if you only knew

Better than doing it with patriotism and nationalism, desu

>But you just confirmed you are Italian
Kek, sorry? What tells you I'm Italian? I'm actually American, living in San Francisco and born from Italian mother and English father.

Do you realize every source that says Shakespeare is the greatest comes from the fucking U.K.?

consigo apreciar shake is spear, mas ele não consegue fazer o que dante faz, pra mim.

vou ler, ironicamente estou no canto 29 de 33 do paradiso, terminando pela segunda vez.

for each his own, até mais caro macaco

Musicians are sexy (especially violinists). Imma have to check this out.

There is hardly any humor in Dante apart from some crude jokes with the devils, and all women in the comedy sound artificial. It might be a great work, but one cannot help but feel there is a vast portion of life that is missing from the Comedy.

Shakespeare, on the other hand, will not only show you the corrosion of a King and his transformation into a beggar, but he can also present young girls chatting about love and sex, or a brothel with people eating, drinking and being merry. And all of that in a language that is as beautiful (and probably more beautiful) than that of Dante.

Shakespeare is more rich, there is no doubt about it. Even Joyce said that, and for his language we already have the Nabokov quote mentioned above.

No human being — not Shakespeare nor anyone else — has ever written something this supreme:

«L’un lito e l’altro vidi infin la Spagna,
fin nel Morrocco, e l’isola d’i Sardi,
e l’altre che quel mare intorno bagna.

Io e’ compagni eravam vecchi e tardi
quando venimmo a quella foce stretta
dov’Ercule segnò li suoi riguardi

acciò che l’uom più oltre non si metta;
da la man destra mi lasciai Sibilia,
da l’altra già m’avea lasciata Setta.

"O frati," dissi, "che per cento milia
perigli siete giunti a l’occidente,
a questa tanto picciola vigilia

d’i nostri sensi ch’è del rimanente
non vogliate negar l’esperïenza,
di retro al sol, del mondo sanza gente.

Considerate la vostra semenza:
fatti non foste a viver come bruti,
ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza".

Li miei compagni fec’io sì aguti,
con questa orazion picciola, al cammino,
che a pena poscia li avrei ritenuti;

e volta nostra poppa nel mattino,
de’ remi facemmo ali al folle volo,
sempre acquistando dal lato mancino.

Tutte le stelle già de l’altro polo
vedea la notte, e ’l nostro tanto basso,
che non surgëa fuor del marin suolo.

Cinque volte racceso e tante casso
lo lume era di sotto da la luna,
poi che 'ntrati eravam ne l'alto passo,

quando n’apparve una montagna, bruna
per la distanza, e parvemi alta tanto
quanto veduta non avëa alcuna.

Noi ci allegrammo, e tosto tornò in pianto;
ché de la nova terra un turbo nacque
e percosse del legno il primo canto.

Tre volte il fé girar con tutte l’acque;
a la quarta levar la poppa in suso
e la prora ire in giù, com’altrui piacque,

infin che ’l mar fu sovra noi richiuso».

No one, never.

>there is a vast portion of life that is missing from the Comedy
Oh my god, is this what plebeians actually believe

First of all, stop samefagging because you're pathetic.

Second, read Paolo and Francesca canto.

Sim, no fim das contas é uma questão de gosto.

No meu caso eu sempre adorei metáforas e figuras de linguagem, sempre gostei de linguagem colorida e exuberante, o que ocorre em Shakespeare o tempo todo. Dante é muito mais comedido, muito mais limpo, por assim dizer. Para muitos leitores Shakespeare soa como exagerado, mas para mim é como se com cada metáfora uma nova ficção, uma nova história em miniatura estivesse eclodindo dentro da história maior.

Também jamais fui religioso, não fui criado com nenhuma fé ou dentro de uma estrutura Evangélica ou Católica, então talvez muito em Dante não soe interessante para mim por essa falta de fé. Eu prefiro mais o mundo das batalhas pelo poder, das tavernas, das conversas sobre sexo atrás das portas, e dos muitos debates ideológicos que ocorrem entre os personagens de Shakespeare.

Mas como você disse, for each his own. Fico feliz de achar um brasileiro culto por aqui, que está lendo a Divina Comédia em Italiano. Eu leio em edição bilíngue, mas não é a mesma coisa que realmente entender o idioma (embora sejam parecidos).

Você aprendeu sozinho ou fez aulas de italiano?

1. Homer. If he doesn't count for obvious reasons probably Dostoevsky
2. Dostoevsky, but Kierkegaard may be coming in first soon
3. War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, The Idiot, The Brothers Karamazov, and Fathers and Sons
Steinbeck is a really interesting novelist. I've only read Grapes of Wrath, Cannery Row, and Of Mice and Men, but what really stood out to me and seemed rather quaint in the first two books there were the short, philosophically-focused chapters in between the normal narrative chapters. Haven't really seen it done elsewhere, but I think it adds a ton of flavor to his books and helps flesh them out. I remember in Grapes of Wrath in particular, a little story about a couple running a convenience store, and the woman lies about the candy costing barely anything at all, just to give it to this obviously impoverished family. It's a great, fun way to hammer home the themes without having to involve the main characters.

Joyce
Camus
The Fall
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
Augustus
Don Quixote
Hunger

The fact you keep saying Shakespeare is better because of the language demonstrates how much of a hack you are, since the language, exactly the language (but obviously not only it) is what makes Dante the greatest of them all. Imagine having no language to express yourself (that's the truest condition of the writer) because Latin was getting trite and too much political and French was still forming. Now imagine taking a small bunch of popular and vernacular words and transforming them to the point you have invented the richest and most beautiful language of your epoch. The Italian of Dante is infinitely various, versatile and, above all, sweet, no matter what subject you're handling. Dante's operation was unprecedented. Joyce tried to do the same but could only come up with a ridiculoud meme like Finnegans Wake. Dante is genius. Devoting yourself to a newborn language for decades until you have refined it, embellished it to the maximum possible extent and made it a new national language. English-speaking peasants have never got on his level.

>Even Joyce said that
You quoted someone who in fact preferred Dante over Shakespeare, so joke's on you, fucking retard.

I think that what touches you most about this passage is the story itself, the links that it make with the Odyssey, the fact that Dante adds a new layer of legend to the already world-celebrated mythological quest of Odysseus. There is also the point that the terza rima adds enchantment to it, by weaving the narration in a current of sonorous sounds.

But, as poetry, as poetic language, I don’t think that the passage you quoted is more beautiful than things like this:

His legs bestrid the ocean: his rear'd arm
Crested the world: his voice was propertied
As all the tuned spheres, and that to friends;
But when he meant to quail and shake the orb,
He was as rattling thunder. For his bounty,
There was no winter in't; an autumn 'twas
That grew the more by reaping: his delights
Were dolphin-like; they show'd his back above
The element they lived in: in his livery
Walk'd crowns and crownets; realms and islands were
As plates dropp'd from his pocket.

(…)

For Orpheus' lute was strung with poets' sinews,
Whose golden touch could soften steel and stones,
Make tigers tame and huge leviathans
Forsake unsounded deeps to dance on sands.

(…)

Besides, this Duncan
Hath borne his faculties so meek, hath been
So clear in his great office, that his virtues
Will plead like angels, trumpet-tongued, against
The deep damnation of his taking-off;
And pity, like a naked newborn babe,
Striding the blast, or heaven’s cherubim, horsed
Upon the sightless couriers of the air,
Shall blow the horrid deed in every eye,
That tears shall drown the wind.

(…)

Let heaven kiss earth! now let not Nature's hand
Keep the wild flood-confin'd! let order die!
And let this world no longer be a stage
To feed contention in a lingering act;
But let one spirit of the first-born Cain
Reign in all bosoms, that, each heart being set
On bloody courses, the rude scene may end,
And darkness be the burier of the dead!

(…)

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

(...)

Look, love, what envious streaks
Do lace the severing clouds in yonder East:
Night's candles are burnt out, and jocund day
Stands tiptoe on the misty mountain tops

(…)

Making it momentany as a sound,
Swift as a shadow, short as any dream;
Brief as the lightning in the collied night,
That, in a spleen, unfolds both heaven and earth,
And ere a man hath power to say 'Behold!'
The jaws of darkness do devour it up:
So quick bright things come to confusion.

>ou quoted someone who in fact preferred Dante over Shakespeare, so joke's on you, fucking retard.

>[If on a desert island what one book?] "I should hesitate between Dante and Shakespeare but not
for long. The Englishman is richer and would get my vote."

1. Cervantes
2. Voltaire
3. Don Quixote, Candide, The Cossacks, Dubliners, Death in Venice

aprendi sozinho.
em 3 meses "zerei" o duolingo, depois disso foi apenas diariamente ler notícias em italiano, manter um "journal" em italiano, traduzir trechos de Pt para It e sempre que possível ver vídeos/assistir filmes. Comecei lendo Calvino e fui aos poucos lendo italianos mais "complexos" e arcaicos, como Eco

>The fact you keep saying Shakespeare is better because of the language

Language is just one aspect. And I am not speaking of Shakespeare as an inventor of new words (although he also did that*): am I talking about his fertility with metaphors, similes and overall imagery.

Of course, there is also the fact that he could deal with several different subjects and themes with the same serene neutrality, and the enormous gallery of characters he created.

And you must be careful with saying that Dante invented Italian. He was bold to use the vernacular of his day and region, but many others were doing just the same. People never abruptly stop speaking one language, sit down, and invent a totally new one. Languages can be invented, but natural languages such as Italian simply were not invented. Rather, they evolve from another language gradually through a set of sound changes. Changes in grammar, syntax, and semantics are also common. Just like organisms never literally give birth to a child of a totally new species, the children of the speakers of one language never grow up magically speaking a totally new language. It's all on a spectrum of changes.

What Dante did was to help to popularize the Tuscan dialect because of the excelence of his Works and the fame they achieved. But he never actually sat down and started creating neologism after neologism.

* By the way, people vastly exaggerate the number of new words coined by Shakespeare. Whenever a word is found in his plays that did not appeared elsewhere in print some scholars are already willing to state that it was coined by Shakespeare, ignoring the fact that he might have heard the word used orally by someone else, or read it before in some work that did not survive until our days.

I think what touches you most about those passages is the constant reference to nature, landscape descriptions and allusions.

But, as poetry, as poetic significance, I don't think the passages you quoted are more beautiful than Dante's Comedy. You need to create sense, vast refelections on things, on the universe, on what makes the human human. Which is what lacks in Shakespeare.

«Quando leggemmo il disïato riso
esser basciato da cotanto amante,
questi, che mai da me non fia diviso,

la bocca mi basciò tutto tremante.
Galeotto fu ‘l libro e chi lo scrisse:
quel giorno più non vi leggemmo avante.»

>And you must be careful with saying that Dante invented Italian. He was bold to use the vernacular of his day and region, but many others were doing just the same. People never abruptly stop speaking one language, sit down, and invent a totally new one. Languages can be invented, but natural languages such as Italian simply were not invented. Rather, they evolve from another language gradually through a set of sound changes. Changes in grammar, syntax, and semantics are also common. Just like organisms never literally give birth to a child of a totally new species, the children of the speakers of one language never grow up magically speaking a totally new language. It's all on a spectrum of changes.
Reading comprehension: 0 (zero).

Bah, que legal! Parabéns!

Acho que vou seguir o seu exemplo. Italiano e Espanhol são tão semelhantes ao nosso português que é quase um crime não tentar aprender a falá-los fluentemente.

Ah, e sobre Shakespeare x Dante. Eu gosto mais de Shakespeare, porém, aos meus ouvidos, a mais bela língua de todas é o Italiano, sem dúvida alguma. Em segundo lugar o nosso português brasileiro: acho que somos muito afortunados (embora os Portugueses da Europa destruam nossa linguagem quando a falam - parece uma mistura de Português com alguma língua eslava; as consoantes tornam-se mais proeminentes que as vogais, é muito estranho).

1- Dante, Goethe, Shakespeare
2- Dostoievski
3- Brothers Karamazov; The Count of Monte Cristo, Doktor Faustus, Crime and Punishment, Madam Bovary

>Reading comprehension: 0 (zero).

Look what you said:

Dante's operation was unprecedented. Joyce tried to do the same but could only come up with a ridiculoud meme like Finnegans Wake.

You contradicted yourself inside your own post, for Joyce was not even remotely trying to do what Dante did.

Interesting. We started by fighting, but now we are understanding each other. We seem to have different ways of appreciating poetry.

However, I cannot agree with this:

>You need to create sense, vast refelections on things, on the universe, on what makes the human human. Which is what lacks in Shakespeare.

For example, this is a great speech concerning remorse and doubt (quite human qualities):

KING CLAUDIUS
Thanks, dear my lord.
Exit POLONIUS
O, my offence is rank it smells to heaven;
It hath the primal eldest curse upon't,
A brother's murder. Pray can I not,
Though inclination be as sharp as will:
My stronger guilt defeats my strong intent;
And, like a man to double business bound,
I stand in pause where I shall first begin,
And both neglect. What if this cursed hand
Were thicker than itself with brother's blood,
Is there not rain enough in the sweet heavens
To wash it white as snow? Whereto serves mercy
But to confront the visage of offence?
And what's in prayer but this two-fold force,
To be forestalled ere we come to fall,
Or pardon'd being down? Then I'll look up;
My fault is past. But, O, what form of prayer
Can serve my turn? 'Forgive me my foul murder'?
That cannot be; since I am still possess'd
Of those effects for which I did the murder,
My crown, mine own ambition and my queen.
May one be pardon'd and retain the offence?
In the corrupted currents of this world
Offence's gilded hand may shove by justice,
And oft 'tis seen the wicked prize itself
Buys out the law: but 'tis not so above;
There is no shuffling, there the action lies
In his true nature; and we ourselves compell'd,
Even to the teeth and forehead of our faults,
To give in evidence. What then? what rests?
Try what repentance can: what can it not?
Yet what can it when one can not repent?
O wretched state! O bosom black as death!
O limed soul, that, struggling to be free,
Art more engaged! Help, angels! Make assay!
Bow, stubborn knees; and, heart with strings of steel,
Be soft as sinews of the newborn babe!
All may be well.

>Bah
sulista também?

>é quase um crime não tentar aprender a falá-los fluentemente.
exatamente. Quero aprender latim, espanhol e francês, se duvidar até romeno, pra aproveitar essa pré-disposoção que nós temos para línguas românticas (acho muito interessante a mistura de latim + influência eslava que a língua romena sofreu, sem contar que é a língua moderna meus próxima do latim, seguida pelo italiano).

Compreensão de leitura em italiano, se tu dedicar 30~60min por dia, apenas fazendo duolingo, acredito que seja possível alcançar em 2~3 meses (nível de leitura pra ler notícias em linguagem simples e coloquial). Fluência pra escrever/conversação, acredito que 6 meses é suficiente, utilizando filmes e outros resources. Uma dica é achar grupos no Wpp de gente aprendendo a língua, tem grupos com 30+ pessoas de tudo que é país e só falam X idioma no grupo.

Acredito que Francês deve ser um pouco mais demorado, enquanto espanhol muito mais rápido.

Don't try to derail the discussion with me, fuckface. You do have a reading comprehension that is zero, because:
>you must be careful with saying that Dante invented Italian
Never said that.
>He was bold to use the vernacular of his day and region, but many others were doing just the same
Never said he was the only one.
>People never abruptly stop speaking one language, sit down, and invent a totally new one
Never said Dante did.
>Languages can be invented, but natural languages such as Italian simply were not invented.
Never said Dante invented Italian.
>Rather, they evolve from another language gradually through a set of sound changes. Changes in grammar, syntax, and semantics are also common. Just like organisms never literally give birth to a child of a totally new species, the children of the speakers of one language never grow up magically speaking a totally new language. It's all on a spectrum of changes
Sorry, but I have to "derail" myself to let you know that I studied linguistics, phonetic, I know Latin and Italian and what you wrote sounds like nothing new to me.

>You contradicted yourself inside your own post, for Joyce was not even remotely trying to do what Dante did.
Exactly, in fact what I said is that Joyce tried to do something similar, not identical (in the sense that he tried to create a new language for expressing his needs) and failed, because his work resulted in a big delusional hysteric meme, whereas Dante reached the highest peaks of Poetry. But don't get me wrong: once again, I'm not saying Dante invented a new language, I'm saying Dante chose a specific linguisic material and re-invented it for his own exigency by selecting the words and the tropes he needed.

>sulista também?

hehe, sim. Moro em Campo Bom, uma cidadezinha bem pequena, cerca de 40 minutos de carro de Porto Alegre.

Sobre aprender línguas, este ano (digo, 2018) quero aprender bem espanhol e ler a maior parte das grandes obras do continente. Estive relendo o 100 Anos de Solidão e percebi que existem tantas outras joias, linguisticamente e culturalmente tão próximas, que eu simplesmente ignoro.

Também quero ler mais literatura brasileira, e sobretudo livros de sociologia e história. Quero conhecer mais sobre as populações indígenas, sobre as colônias Alemãs e Italianas, sobre a cultura nordestina...enfim, sobre o nosso país.

Obrigado por me apresentar o Duolingo. Eu não conhecia, mas agora vou começar a utilizá-lo com o Espanhol, e depois passar para o Italiano.

Depois do 100 Anos de Solidão vou ler o "Pedro Páramo" e "Eu, o Supremo". Também já pensei em verificar as obras de Darcy Ribeiro (sobre indígenas).

Ah, Latim é lindo. Eu ouço poemas e discursos em latim no You Tube de vez em quando, só para aproveitar a beleza da língua.

Esses dias estive lendo Memórias de Adriano, e achei uma bela passagem onde ele compara Latim e Grego. Se eu fosse mais inteligente tentaria aprender grego...talvez um dia, bem no futuro:

"To my dying day I shall be grateful to Scaurus for having set me early to the study of Greek. I was still a child when for the first time I tried to trace on my tablets those characters of an unknown alphabet: here was a new world and the beginning of my great travels, and also the feeling of a choice as deliberate, but at the same time as involuntary, as that of love. I have loved the language for its flexibility, like that of a supple, perfect body, and for the richness of its vocabulary, in which every word bespeaks direct and varied contact with reality: and because almost everything that men have said best has been said in Greek. There are, I know, other languages, but they are petrified, or have yet to be born. Egyptian priests have shown me their antique symbols; they are signs rather than words, ancient attempts at classification of the world and of things, the sepulchral speech of a dead race. During the Jewish War the rabbi Joshua translated literally for me some texts from Hebrew, that language of sectarians so obsessed by their god that they have neglected the human. In the armies I grew accustomed to the language of the Celtic auxiliaries, and remember above all certain of their songs… . But barbarian jargons are chiefly important as a reserve for human expression, and for all the things which they will doubtless say in time to come. Greek, on the contrary, has its treasures of experience already behind it, experience both of man and of the State. From the Ionian tyrants to the Athenian demagogues, from the austere integrity of an Agesilaus to the excesses of a Dionysius or a Demetrius, from the treason of Demaratus to the fidelity of Philopoemen, everything that any one of us can do to help or to hinder his fellow man has been done, at least once, by a Greek. It is the same with our personal decisions: from cynicism to idealism, from the skepticism of Pyrrho to the mystic dreams of Pythagoras, our refusals or our acceptances have already taken place; our very vices and virtues have Greek models. There is nothing to equal the beauty of a Latin votive or burial inscription: those few words graved on stone sum up with majestic impersonality all that the world need ever know of us. It is in Latin that I have administered the empire; my epitaph will be carved in Latin on the walls of my mausoleum beside the Tiber; but it is in Greek that I shall have thought and lived."

ok, I'm tired now. You win.

I read your post and actually understood it, but I decided to respond not only to you, but to all people I have seen here and there that blindly state that Dante invented modern Italian (or Shakespeare modern English, for the record).

It was foolish of me: I should have stayed focused on the discussion. I apologize.

>because his work resulted in a big delusional hysteric meme,

To be frank, I agree with you on that ;)

>I studied linguistics, phonetic, I know Latin and Italian

Congratulations. Nice to see learned people here, even if we disagree.

como tu não conhecia duolingo? lul

é uma excelente ferramenta, principalmente pra te introduzir à novas línguas. Como já temos uma pré-disposição pra línguas românticas, somente utilizando duolingo tu já consegue ler textos simples em italiano, mas igual falei, se quiser falar, escrever bem, é necessário utilizar outras fontes, e quanto mais diversas essas fontes, melhor. Outra dica para o duolingo: se tu quiser aprender alguma língua menos mainstream e não tiver em português, dá pra tu colocar a sua língua nativa como inglês, porque inglês tem um leque de opções MUITO maior que português. Romeno no duolingo, por exemplo, só dá pra tu fazer se tu colocar sua língua como inglês, não desenvolveram curso de Romeno, e de muitas outras línguas como grego, para português ainda.

>Shall blow the horrid deed in every eye,
does this mean cumming in peoples eyes?

1. Shakespeare
2. Cao Xueqin
3. Dream of the Red Chamber, Little Big, Lolita, Winter's Tale, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

thanks

shakespeare
homer
moby dick, brother karamazovs, bible, ulysses
mm i dont really know about the fifth one. in search of lost time, maybe?

1- Willy Shakes. Joyce close second.

2- Dostoievski

3- Crime and Punishment
Count of Monte Cristo
Memoirs of Hadrian
The Process
Il Gatopardo

>Memoirs of Hadrian

OP here. My brother ;)

Fitzgerald
Wallace Stegner
>Tender is the Night
>Angle of Repose
>Blood Meridian
>Lolita
>The Big Rock Candy Mountain

>Platonov
Naisu desu

I could masturbate to this:

youtube.com/watch?v=r0_ONf3CA10

youtube.com/watch?v=3V71ADv6V68

youtube.com/watch?v=NGOIPoIxC-w

>Schmidt
>Schmidt
>Bottom's Dream

Is humanely impossible for someone to actually haves this taste

Yes
That would be great

ARE YOU FEMALE?

Dante is unstoppable

youtu.be/1xr4FjAEKdo

No. I'm handsome, but I am male.

>he can't admit he lost without the excuse of being tired
>he agrees with the outrageous opinion of his bully to appease him to try to make a new friend
>he still thinks that there was something that he has to disagree over, rather than just being proven to have faulty reading comprehension and argumentative capabilities

Shakespeare is not the greatest of all time. Cervantes, Victor Hugo, Tolstoy, Dante, and Homer are all equally as good if not better.

I was just trying to be nice. And yes, I was tired: I had been repleyint to several posts while at the same time having to finish petitions at the office, and in the end of my turn at work: it was the end of a busy day and I didn’t want to keep arguing.

However, I still maintain that Shakespeare is far superior to Dante (more varied, more inventive, a better and more exuberant poet, more influential, more widely read, more admired among the general public and among specialists) and that the user had incongruities inside his post. The post itself was nothing impressive, since he was merely praising the fact that Dante was bold enough to use his vernacular language instead of Latin, something that was actually occurring all over Europe. As a contributor to the language with new terms and new expressions and ready-made phrases Shakespeare is still more impressive than Dante.

I read the post, understood it quite well, but decided to address a larger question: the myth ttah Dante was the “inventor” of the Italian language.

But if you want it, here:

>The fact you keep saying Shakespeare is better because of the language demonstrates how much of a hack you are, since the language, exactly the language (but obviously not only it) is what makes Dante the greatest of them all.

Why? Shakespeare has bolder metaphors, thousands of similes, a greater sense of experimentation in transforming nouns into verbs and coining new words. His poetic texture was also much more dense than that of Dante (T.S. Eliot mentioned this in one of his essays, and I strongly believe that Eliot, religious and timid as he was, preferred Dante to Shakespeare, although he was honest enough to admit Shakespeare’s text was much more dense). His vocabulary is wider and he discusses (and transforms into poetry) many more subjects than Dante does.

>Imagine having no language to express yourself (that's the truest condition of the writer) because Latin was getting trite and too much political and French was still forming. Now imagine taking a small bunch of popular and vernacular words and transforming them to the point you have invented the richest and most beautiful language of your epoch.

Writers everywhere were starting to use the vernacular. Dante did not transform the language. He was not “taking a small bunch of popular and vernacular words and transforming them”; he was using the Tuscan dialect to write his works and, because his works were of great quality and eventually got very famous, his influence (the influence of his diction) was decisive in the teaching of Italian from that moment on. Here the user says specifically that he was “transforming” the vernacular, a rhetorical exaggeration of his part.

>“to the point you have invented the richest and most beautiful language of your epoch.”

Says who? Who determines what is the “most beautiful language”? How one could measure the Italian of the time against the Spanish or the French of the time, for example? Or the Arabic and Persian of the time? And once again, he is saying that Dante “invented” the language. Once again a rhetorical exaggeration that somewhat echoes the stupid legends that Dante “invented the modern Italian language”.

>”The Italian of Dante is infinitely various, versatile and, above all, sweet, no matter what subject you're handling.”

Once again being subjective. But, if one might say that the romance languages tend to sound sweater, they can hardly be called more versatile than English, or Greek, or German: languages that can agglutinate words into neologisms much more easily and who can change the class of words more naturally. Italian simply isn’t as malleable as English is.

>Dante's operation was unprecedented. Joyce tried to do the same but could only come up with a ridiculoud meme like Finnegans Wake.

What Dante was doing several other writers were doing in their own countries. People eventually started using the vernacular. Chaucer is an example, as well as Camões. And here the user tries to compare Joyce’s intentions with those of Dante, although he knew very well that they were not aiming for the same thing and that Dante was not creating a forest of neologisms, but merely using the language he himself spoke to write his works.

>English-speaking peasants have never got on his level.

Shakespeare not only surpassed him, but also all other poets of the world. He is the great king of metaphors, similes and imagery, and that alone would be a great thing (his inventiveness when it comes down to poetic imagery is just awe-inspiring), but that is just one of his attributes. He could talk about more subjects than Dante; had a more deep understanding of man and women (Dante hardly knows women, to be frank); had greater empathy for human beings; didn’t press his views upon the reader and was able to maintain his neutrality to the point that nobody knows exactly what he thought about life, and finally: is beloved by many more readers around the world.

Shakespeare is number one. Let Dante fight Homer for the second spot.