Sam: I'll just put that out there as an example of something someone would never want to spend a lot of time trying to justify this world view by reference to stories, ancient or otherwise.
Jordan: I mean, yeah. Well, there's actually a technical solution to the problem you're posing. I mean, part of the problem is how do you know if what you're looking at is a genuine thing or an artifact of your imagination, and, you know that Paul Neal and, and his, his, uh, his colleague Col-, Cronback solved this back in the 1950's with a very solid piece of methodological work that every psychologist either does or should know about. They were the inventors of the multi-trade, multi-method construct validation process, which is a pretty, uh, awful jumble of words, but basically, it means something like, to specify whether or not something exists you have to use multiple methods to detect it and their reports should co-vary positively. And so, of course, we do exactly that with our five senses. Just because you can see something doesn't mean it's there, but if you can see it and hear it, well, you're a little bit more certain...
Jordan: You know, when I wrote my book Maps of Meaning, I was very acutely aware of that, and it's certainly a criticism that has been leveled against people like Carl Jung, mostly, tragically enough, by people like the postmodernists who don't believe in any sort of over-arching narrative, who have their own form of Dogan-like pathology well distributed widely among them. So what I did was refuse to take a presupposition as acceptable unless I could find its manifestation in at least four levels of evidence simultaneously. So, for example, in my book I start out with a neuropsychological count, I think, count of fundamental neuropsycological processes that enable us to make sense of the world, primarily relying on the work done, the early work done by the Russian psychologists Luria, Sokolov and Venegredova who did a lot of early work on the orienting reflex and the hippocampus. That was then sort of combined with modern cybernetic theory by Geoffrey Grey, who was then Hans Isac's student, and Geoffrey Grey's work has had tremendous impact in the last, especially in the last 10 years in psychological in general. He wrote his book in 1982, but it was a very, very difficult book. I think it a ahead of him. It must have had at least 1500 to 3000 references, and Geoffrey Grey was exactly the kind of person who would have read every single one of them. And he outlined a cybernetic information processing model of human neuropsycological function that actually lays extraordinarily nicely on top of the archetypal world, uh, that I've been working on, outlining. I wanted to also make sure it was in keeping with the observational animal studies that people like Jane Goodall and James Dewall do, um..., ethology. I wanted to make sure it was in keeping with the ethological, uh, um, data, as well as the broader literature on ethological psychology and evolutionary biology. And so, when I say that there's these patterns that exist that you can extract from mythology, I'm knowing full well that you can find concordance for the processes described by those archetypal stories in at least four different scientific disciplines simultaneously. And according to Cronback and Neal's methodology, that's the most effective possible way of validating a construct when, when it might be susceptible to the kind of contamination by imagination that you're referring to.
Sam: I don't even know what to make of that claim.
Jace Price
was this from their first or second conversation?
Charles Richardson
How much DMT do you think Peterson has done?
Christian Wood
oh boy another peterson thread reminder that everybody who makes these threads are board migrants who don't read
Adrian Gonzalez
Peterson has been on antidepressants for at least a decade
Leo Thompson
Second conversation titled "Meaning and Chaos" ep. #67
Ethan Young
>natives of Veeky Forums read
Camden Bennett
Harris got BLOWN the FUCK out
Landon Jenkins
natives pretend to read, not watch podcasts
Jaxon Collins
>And believe me BUCKO I know about epistemic properties, I've studied this stuff for FOOORTY YYYYYYEARS
Eli Ramirez
What is this geoffrey grey book? I can't seem to find anything on it.
Hmm, so you're saying he couldn't have taken them and had them work. So that bit from the college lecture video where he talks about the potential for DMY usage if it actually does launch your consciousness into higher dimensions and planes like a lot of psychonauts say it does is without his own experience I guess. I wonder if he has tried synthesizing his archetypal work into what he has heard about the entheogenic DMT and psychedelic experience.
Grayson Martin
What a jumbled mess of words He's talks like Trump, just with a larger vocabulary.
Jack Phillips
>we're reaching levels of ressentiment that shouldn't even be possible
Caleb Wood
Does this make any more sense in context?
Carson Ortiz
It makes perfect sense, he's making an argument for the scientificness of Jungian archetypes.
Lincoln Martin
Is there nyone more pretentious than this leaf?
William Reyes
>dogan-like what's this mean
Dominic Fisher
thanks for posting op i was thinking about that multi method validation process the other day and looked for books on that but couldnt remember what it was called
Alexander Campbell
The Dogon people of west Africa
Aiden Myers
>there are vast numbers of people now who get the majority of their information from YouTube videos or podcasts
David Young
THAT'S DOKTER PEDERSEN TO YOU!!!!11
Jaxon Smith
There's nothing jumbled or confusing about what he's saying. He's defending the parts of mythology and religion that he talks about in his book / talks, the parts that appear valuable to him, by explaining that he analyzes them in accordance with a classic scientific approach, which seeks to validate things by testing them at several different levels / angles of analysis in order to improve the case of convincing evidence of their validity and thus their value. For the scientifically minded (which I am not, by the way) this will either be a good thing to hear from Peterson or, in Sam's case, something they want to hear even less, because Sam is a bit of a poser who operates off of his convictions a little too much despite what he may tell you.
Blake Young
Peterson v. Sadler when
Ayden Butler
>polfags are this assblasted
Gabriel Fisher
what's wrong with this? Here is what I read:
First post:
> Sam: You're using fiction and stories to justify real events so uhhhh... basically ur a fucking dumb ass > Jordan: I do use fiction & stories, since they can corroborate with other forms of presentation and inform you about the real world in different ways. Just as you can use multiple senses to gather information about the world around you, parables & Jung's rants inform us about how people are in different ways than empirical studies.
Second post:
> Jordan: Here are some examples where people did this [...]. In my book I have used these sorts of stories, on top of at least four other forms of evidence to support my points. > Sam: LMAO ok dude...
learn 2 reading comprehension
Jason Lee
/pol/ doesn't like Peterson anymore. Peterson attacked the alt-right recently, and uninvited an ethnonationalist journalist (Faith Goldy) from a free speech event.
Ethan Adams
I have been hearing about this guy for the last year but never paid attention because of how memed he was. Finally watched the talk he had on Canadian television about the pronoun issue and I was hooked. I think I've listened to 20+hours of lectures already. I'm finally motivated to read actual philosophy. I might even start taking online courses seriously in hope of getting an MBA and teach. A lot of what he is saying is things I've been meditating on for a very long time >religious truth vs scientific truth >deceitfulness and abolishment of truth from neo-marxists >relentless anti-collectivism finally there's something to read and explore which talks about these notions. I feel like I wasted my time at undergrad and got my History degree for fun without really expanding my mind or caring about my work at all. Fuck his talk at Harvard about what a University education is supposed to give you really broke me.
Jose Green
I think Peterson would like Hegel. As it stands, he already goes on and on about complex categories which include contradictory terms and the way in which meaning, as the movement of separation and integration of the absolute mediated between known and unknown territory, emerges, manifests, takes shape throughout history.
Nathan Gonzalez
I agree. Peterson is actually pretty great.
Aiden Lee
Enjoy receiving useful information from DOCTOR Jordan B. Peterson such as:
How to wipe your ass THE RIGHT WAY Making sure to buy my latest book Donating to my patreon And having a vehement hatred towards the ebil postmodernist ideology pervading school campuses throughout the globe.
Kayden Cox
>How to wipe your ass THE RIGHT WAY don't you mean SORT YOUR ASS OUT?
Julian Howard
Peterson doesn't fully grasp postmodernism, but it is a problem.
Levi Lewis
see I do agree however, that he tends to have a very tangent-heavy way of talking. I think its intentional, as a way to connect knowledge better with what you already know, since he touches on as many things as possible with even the simplest of points.
Tyler Howard
from what I can tell that's what the OP was implying in the first place
Blake Baker
oh my bad then
i thought he was siding with sam harris and making fun of j for rambling and being incoherent
Adrian Butler
schopenhauer already solved the problem of 'religious truth'... the utility is gone for the modern man... its existence as another category of truth is futile..
Christopher Parker
subtle bait
Nathaniel Moore
Trump talks demonstrably like a high school student with no interest in learning, Peterson talks like every fucking psyche major hack faggot who overachieves a little in their practice. Get over yourself you bootlicking fuckwit
