Be me

This. Studying science has done nothing but make me believe more strongly in a God, albeit not a Christian God so much as a Parmenides/Spinoza/Plato All-Is-One

Does truth know a lie?
If God is the Truth, why would he know lies?

Good and Evil can be used in place of Truth and Anti-Truths. Because God doesn't subscribe to man's idea of Good and Evil, he deals in absolute truth.

God's omniscience strictly pertains to what is true, if something is a lie, does it mean anything to an embodiment of the truth? God doesn't understand lies because they are meaningless.

Reality is an extension of God, it contains truths and the objective reality we live in is a whole truth created by God. So to understand the underlying principles of reality in its entirety is to know God.

God, being the architect he is, designed life with free will. It would be difficult to derive much enjoyment or love of wind up toys. That's how we shit on the idea of predestination.
Nothing is predestined, you either live by the axioms God set as the bedrock of reality or you willfully choose not to and evolutionarily, you probably won't last long.

Any system of logic that is sufficient to generate arithmetic is incomplete, and you can't prove its consistency. In that sense the use of a system of logic doesn't seem logical...even if you get everyone to agree on the axioms you use, you still don't know if what you're proving is actually consistent or not, and you also can't prove everything; you don't even have a guarantee your system can answer any possible question.

You will notice that mathematicians did not simply throw up their hands and stop doing mathematics when they figured this out. They took on faith that the system they choose to work with is consistent, and go from there.

Christians do the same thing. The point at which they throw up their hands and say "I just don't know!" changes, but even if you reduce logic to its barest axioms, you can only go so far before you have to basically assume something is true. For Christians that thing is God.

Hmm. I'll have to think about all this.

I think that people who continue to believe in God after they stop following organized religions are the pseudiest pseuds to ever pseud.

It's actually real, whether you believe it or not.

I believe it 100%, I've had the same conversations with christians my entire life.

You're simply thinking of God wrong.
It could be whatever, Reality itself could be God and if you discover all the underlying cause of Reality, then you can profess to understand it.
Science is about predictive models, if a model is consistent with what we observe in reality, then we know we have a close approximation as a baseline to start with.
Taking a skeptical position is really pointless and offers nothing.
"Oh we haven't found gravitons yet, better throw our hands up in the air and remain ignorant to the underlying causes."

Interesting.

Hardline Christians were the underlying cause in the form of Kant, Hegel, and the German Counter Enlightenment.

People who profess to believe in a god after abandoning organized religion and theology for "spiritualism" and "God is just the universe, and the laws of physics are his will", are following in the footsteps of proto-atheists who couldn't become real atheists because they didn't want to end up like La Barre.

I did it once, I couldn't figure out when to stand, sit, where any of the songs were in the book. 2/10 would not be religious again.

>you either live by the axioms God set as the bedrock of reality or you willfully choose not to and evolutionarily, you probably won't last long.
That's not a theodicy, the question is WHY God set up the universe the way he did, not IF he set up the universe.

You may not realize it but I agree with you. Just because the system we have is not complete does not mean we should give up on the system. Just because we haven't found the Gravitons yet doesn't mean we should decide our scientific method is useless.

Christians believe the same thing basically. I'm not saying here that Christians are anti-Science, I'm just saying that the criterion we might normally use to say "Christianity is wrong," aka that they take something on faith, is no different than saying Science is wrong because it assumes that underlying causes are real.

I should note, there are some systems that are complete and consistent. Presburger Arithmetic, for example, is such a system. But it also doesn't have multiplication as an operation. It doesn't reach the level of complexity we usually want. "Science" is not a complete system, and it can't prove its own consistency. You can either see this in a number of different ways (and based on your theory of science the way in which it is incomplete changes), but just take for example "what happened before the Big Bang." What happened before space and time? It's a question which seems to fall within the purview of science, but which science cannot answer. You can always find the systemic equivalent of "This statement is false," and that is enough to show that the system is incomplete.

>it was all just games to them
>mfw I was a fool
so you figured out how much of a player God really is

>God is more like an architect who designed the reality we live in to function upon certain premises.
as the son of an architect I can tell you God is nothing like this, much closer to a musician, or rather the music itself

faith can literally only exist when there is an absence of evidence, so yes it is a game. still I think my dive into theology was productive and helped my argumentative skills

this.
>muh cosmic understanding
also whenever you corner them they just cut off argument with "well I don't believe that" or "not in my version" they have no doctoring so they can asspull as much as they want. any argument turns into "My OC could beat any superhero"

But that's incorrect, nothing is totally certain in science, a lot has to be accepted for pragmatic reasons. The most basic of which is that there is some kind of reality that you can take measurements of. But it is not the absolute truth, just a very useful tool.

On the other hand, Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. Salvation, a lynchpin of Christianity, relies on faith in Jesus. You don't accept Jesus because it's a useful assumption, you accept him because you have faith in him as the Son of God. It's a different ballpark.

Certainty and Faith cannot coexist. Faith is accepting something as true even though you are NOT certain of it. I agree that most people accept Jesus not for his practicality, but because it makes intuitive sense to them.

Things are "certain" in Science assuming the underlying assumptions are correct. Christians (of which I am one btw) are certain that Jesus is the son of God because they accepted on faith "Jesus says true things." Scientists are certain that the speed of light is c because they assumed they can measure such a thing, that the speed is constant, etc.

They do focus on different subject matters, which is why I don't think they're incompatible with each other in any way.