Infinite Jest

>fucking “hand models”
>chad
Pick one

Gently spooning drunk ladies while nestling in thier napes.... sigh.... want to find me a man like that. I’d deliver his poo baby.

am I the only one who really wanted to fuck Avril? she was milfy as fuck

It's stated multiple times that Madame psychosis and himself never fucked.

I'm fairly sure the "lady" you're referring to was Steeply.

there were multiple holes in her friends story, and when don gazes up at her he sees no scars or burns under her veil (where they would be)

Orin and John Wayne were some lucky guys.

Was there anyone in the E.T.A that wasn't fucking Avril other than poorfag Pemulis?

JOI

this struck me as intentionally ambiguous

yes

>he wants to fuck girls with ugly hands

Gately is a chad virgin

I feel sorry for Pemulis. He was a good guy but even Hal, supposedly his best friend, turned his back on him because he was poor.

dude, gately would turn orin into a fucking pretzel.

Ahhh of course of course, the big head, yes.... thanks.

Orin never fucked his mom, not after what happened to her dog

But she took the acid jar in the face, how is it ambiguous?

I've read it three times user

The one warning Joelle is Molly Notkin, who gets questioned by Steepley et al, who are looking for the master copy of the samiszdat

You shut your whore mouth
Himself only had eyes for the Moms

I'm just a poor boy
I need no sympathy

I honestly think DFW fucked the Pemster over because he resented him for being so cool.

see

I could always relax then I read a chapter with Mario in it. Somehow I feel that he and Don are the only ones in this book who aren't either bat-shit or deteriorating.

The Steeply/Marathe bits had a Metal Gear Solid aesthetic.

What does it mean to "dicky" with something? Any other books where the author blatantly invents new words.

>oafish transvestite
>crippled quebecois

how debonair

dicky = fiddle with, muck with, jimmy, etc

HAS ANYONE OF YOU EVER HEARD OF SPOILERS

whatever it is, I'm not going to hear about it from you. don't want to get spoiled

The Steeply/Marathe bits were way too quirky po-mo for me to get a Metal Gear Solid vibe, 2bh

dicky is a word, but to answer your question, maybe A Clockwork Orange

IJ/Brothers Karamazov cross analysis

Oren=Dmitri
Hal=Ivan
Mario=Alyoshya

Many parallels: the death of the protagonist’ father; big ol dusty tomes with legions of sidejobs; alyoshya/mario being the “moral north star” yet most of us find ourselves like ivan/hal or dmitri/oren; rambling distracting side plots galore; women being involved (if not consciously) in deteroriating family relations

The hero of Bros K as Doesto himself thought is Alyoshya

The question is who is the Father Zossima of IJ? Who is the moral saint? Who is it that shows Mario what love is? MP?

>pops into a thread where people are discussing part of the ending of Infinite Jest
>is surprised to find spoilers

Because the narrator gives her deformity as being excessively beautiful, which I interpreted as some kind of dismorphia. But the acid scene DID happen, I remember it, so it makes the narration somewhat unreliable, because of DFW's tendency to put hearsay in the narrative.

Well it's not gonna be carte blanche, but I'd hazard Gately's the saint due to his almost martyrdom.

Please, stop this maymay. The last time it was funny was never.

Tavis = Claudius
April = Gertrude
Himself = Hamlet Sr.
Joelle = Ophelia
Hal = Contemplative Hamlet
Orin = Vindictive Hamlet
John Wayne = Fortinbras (driven by the death of his father who's name he also bears, man of pure action)

>making BK references instead of Hamlet references when the fucking title of the book is a Hamlet quote

At the end of the book there is a direct comparison to BK, when the head physio guy is taping up the lads.

The Hamlet ref is dead on too, Poor Yorick being Himself's production company name, and the skull digging up.

So what the hell happens to Gately? Hal just goes crazy and that's it? Ghosts are real now? the ghost of JOI haunts the earth forever? Wayne is dead? What? Am I supposed to have to analyze this book forever?

Gately saves the world and lives the rest of his life happily fucking Orin's leftovers.

Gately relives his bottom but gets better again
Hal is probably institutionalized (the opening takes place after the end of the arch plot, after they dig up Himself's grave and find the master copy gone, thus the wheelchair assassins begin the process of undoing ONAN)
but Hal's institutionalization is the first step towards Hal learning to express himself properly (not cloaked in irony and erudition, but like Mario, crippled but honest)
I take Himself's inability to hear Hal as him piercing through Hal's savant intelligence and seeing nothing of himself coming through
the Ghost is just Himself who inhabits Stice in a kind of Laertes/Hamlet duel
Wayne may not be dead, he was the french agent employed within the school (besides April) who was searching for the Samizdat, and their plan is a success
you should check out the comments on DFW's work by the Wallace expert (though he talks mostly about TPK)
lemme find the link
warosu.org/lit/thread/S9598647
read this whole thread, there's an autist who rereads all of IJ like once a month

ask me any questions about IJ, I'm not the legendary wallace sperg but I know the novel really well

lord of the rings is better

That's not so bad. Joelle was top waifu.
Yeah, all that's all right, but what happened to Pemulis?

also there's a weird metareflexivity of the entire story, this character chart shows the direct reflections of most characters, but not only is Hal haunted by Himself's ghost, Infinite Jest (the film) haunts the entirety of the work itself
youtube.com/watch?v=_10u984AvzE
^ that's a performance of Hamlet done by the Wooster Group where they perform the play onstage exactly as it appears in a damaged digital copy of a rare Richard Burton film production. Hamlet is haunted by his father's ghost but the film version of Hamlet haunts and shapes the play itself. The filmography of Himself is actually the entire spine of the novel. Several of his films directly echo different parts of the story (never directly, but too similarly to be coincidence) to the point where the whole of the story can come across as a work by James Incandenza himself

Pemulis is expelled from ETA
he's an asshole lying scumbag who in is obviously the "good old neon" stand-in for David's darker side, obsessed with pharmaceuticals and enslaved to addiction (and enslaving others) (in one interview DFW was shocked by the sympathy for Pemulis after his expulsion, given that DFW basically wrote him as Satan and everything he hated in himself)

I can't understand why would anyone read this overlong piece of shit instead of the greeks.

I'm vaguely sure that part of the edited out part of the manuscript (the original Infinite Jest was cut by almost a third) was a mildly redemptive arc for Pemulis, where after his expulsion from ETA, and moving back in with his parents, hustling on the streets of boston, he'd become dependent and end up at Ennet house

But the Pemster was a cool guy. I can't really remember him being truly an asshole to any of his friends.

He was a shoulder-devil for Hal, he was his dealer and what agitated his drug dependency, depression, and coldness in the first place

No one forced Hal to take the drugs. He's perfectly capable of taking care of himself. The Pemster was based. The true lying scum was John Wayne.

>John Wayne
>John Wayne
>John Wayne
Wait, what? Is John Wayne a character in this? Isn't this set in the future? Now I may finally read it.

Its set in an alternate reality where television and the internet were yet to be invented, media was largely distributed through an "Interlace" system wherein small cartridges of your choosing were mailed to you containing daily news, action films, television, etc. Canada, the United States, and Mexico have all formed one tremendous Union (think the EU) and Quebec/parts of the US northeast are deemed toxic dumping grounds. Canada is partly destabilized by Quebec and Albertan ultranationalists. The US has become largely corporate and the years themselves have become subsidized (the Year of the Depend Adult Undergarment, the Year of the Trial Size Doze Bar). Feral hamsters roam the american midwest in the hundreds of thousands and the ecosystem of the nuclear zone is akin to Solaris/the Southern Reach (rumours of giant babies, impossible ecosystems, etc)
John Wayne is a tennis player from Quebec who is scouted by an avant-garde film legend/optics genius James Incandenza while filming a documentary about people named John Wayne who bear no relation to the actual John Wayne. James kills himself by cutting a hole in his microwave door and cooking his brains after his wife (a force to be reckoned with in the prescriptive grammar field) has several dozen affairs with political extremists of her own ilk and anything with a pulse. He directs a film that kills anyone who watches it by reducing them to meaningless husks who's sole goal in life is to rewatch the film over and over and over until starvation/dehydration, which is sought by the Quebec nationalists (all in wheelchairs) to destabilize the US/Canada/Mexico Union

Dude...
when reading I envisioned both as Chad but wearing different clothes.
It's The Virgin Hal, Chad Orin, and Wizard Mario

>this is what Veeky Forums has become
>this is the most insightful analysis your average Veeky Forumsizen has to offer
literally worse than waifu threads on /tv/

I don't dislike Hal at all, but dude was such a virgin, man, and the fact that you could feel that DFW wanted you to root for him and hate Orin and Pemulis, who were some of the most likeable characters, didn't help at all.

If Eggers killed himself after Staggering I guess he'd be a meme and constant thread-subject on this board instead of simply a writer who somehow continues to publish good work, year in and year out, Veeky Forums's disinterest therein to the contrary notwithstanding?

>good work year in year out
>what is the what
>the wild things
>the circle
>our fathers, where are they? and the prophets, do they live forever?
I really like eggers but that's an overstatement senpai

>t. vtirgin

no, fuck you, fuck Orin, fuck Pemulis, they were pieces of shit
Hal is /ourguy/

haha ya haha CHAD haha /OURGUY/ haha STACY haha dood ha WIZARD haha VIRGIN lol haha

Implying Orin wasn't a chad, Gately wasn't /ourguy/, pre-accident Joelle wasn't a stacy, Mario wasn't a wizard, and Hal wasn't a virgin.

>voyeur extraordinaire, filming the cultural decline first hand
>speech and thought of crystalline, pure sincerity, no pretence or deception
>Millicent Kent, Grade A reproductive material with pure genetics romantically bound to Mario
>art films wherein faces are omitted, man and man meet naked in judgement before the light of god, unadorned with beauty and recognized only by their measure of voice
Mario is a dark horse silverback Triple S rank noumenal gigachad the likes of which the world cannot comprehend (akin to Joelle's incomparable beauty, Mario would be the only one who could look upon her and maintain frame)

Is IJ /ournovel/?

The very nature of it really lends itself to the type of people that gravitate towards this board, I feel. So, yeah.

DFdubs was clearly inspired by both
the hamlet inspiration is more direct
but the barry loach segment very much shows the book's inspiration from BK, if not the three brothers themselves.

This the problem with the real world

Someone isn't "Good" if they're only "nice" to their "friends" and a vicious sociopath to everyone else.

Most people seem to think so. Even after thousands of years of history telling us otherwise, people in power are still cronyistic shitheads who play this game of "If you're my dawg, I got your back, if not, I'll cut your throat."

True good is good regardless of friendship. Evil is only good when a relationship imposes an arbitrary and temporary limitation to the evil.

Pemulis dosed a guy at Whataburger, and in a removed footnote he slams on his horn when a blind guy is walking in front of his truck on a crosswalk, making the guy shit his pants and quiver on the ground in the middle of the road. He finds this delightful

im not doubting what you've said but I'd be interested where you found that deleted footnote

general bump

Did Orin impregnate Avril leading way to Mario's birth, explaining Mario's deformities and Orin's strange relationship with Avril?

was it dove chocolate or dove soap?

it was dove soap (to fit with April's hyper cleanliness
Orin was 8 when Mario was born
in the original draft Charles was April's direct brother (not adoptive) and had the same reptilioid features and flaky skin as Mario
Wallace changed it to make the question deliberately ambiguous, just like there's the ambiguity on whether or not Himself is actually Hal's father (Hal is described as having practically middle eastern skin (like the medical attaché) that doesn't sunburn at all)
you can inference that Mario's features were probably warped from the nuclear effects upon the population of eastern canada, like Marathe's wife who also cannot support her head

many people read a sexual relationship/abuse into Orin's relation to Avril but thematically its just meant to reflect Hamlet's hatred of his mother over her infidelity to her father (Orin knew she was having multiple affairs and was mailing infinite jest tapes to her lovers, the tape the medical attache watches is from phoenix, AZ, and the next scene is Orin in phoenix)