Hedonism > Everything Else

web.stanford.edu/group/neurostudents/cgi-bin/wordpress/?p=3733

among other things

>Hedonism = living a happy life

>hedonism=happy life
Ideally you shouldn't post here unless you're older than 25

Because hedonism leads you to become a drug addict.

Did you mean to post something else?

pls

>In 1954, James Olds and Peter Milner of McGill University published a seminal paper in which they report evidence for the existence of a reward center in the brain. In the paper, Olds and Milner describe their finding that rats would continually press a lever in return for receiving nothing more than a brief pulse of electrical stimulation in a particular region of the rat’s brain called the septal area. Since electrical stimulation in the septal area was all that was needed to reinforce the lever-pressing behavior, and since the rate of reinforcement was comparable to that produced by natural rewards, the authors inferred that stimulation in this brain area was somehow rewarding or reinforcing in of itself.

>Don't live for pleasure, you could get more pleasure if you did x

>Living for a short term, pleasure on the moment >>> building long term, solid and stable happiness and pleasure

I don't think science can create a brainlet wojak nearly dumb enough to represent a fraction of your retardation

What is pleasant is good, and what is unpleasant evil.

yup, especially when you painfully, unpleasantly pop your friend's should shoulder back in place, ya evil bastard.

youtube.com/watch?v=cDQzijl6El4
>don't try to comment on the biased title either

>implying there are not three bodies; material, mental, and spiritual
>implying maximizing material pleasure alone will not leave you unbalanced
>implying you're not wasting your life

>implying that's what hedonism is

“Subhuti, if there were as many Ganges rivers as the number of grains of sand in the Ganges, would you say that the number of grains of sand in all those Ganges rivers would be very many?”

Subhuti answered, “Very many indeed, Most Honored One. If the number of Ganges rivers were that large, how much more so would be the number of grains of sand in all those Ganges rivers.”

“Subhuti, I will declare a truth to you. If a good man or a good woman filled over ten thousand galaxies of worlds with the seven treasures for each grain of sand in all those Ganges rivers, and gave it all away for the purpose of compassion, charity and giving alms, would this man or woman not gain great merit and spread much happiness?”

Subhuti replied, “Very much so, Most Honored One.”

“Subhuti, if after studying and observing even a single stanza of this Sutra, another person were to explain it to others, the happiness and merit that would result from this virtuous act would be far greater.”

diamond-sutra.com/read-the-diamond-sutra-here/diamond-sutra-chapter-11/

>a happy life
no such thing lad, this is the glaring fault of hedonism

>results in pathetic weak cunts living for the next hit of pleasure, not for life or experience.
And why do you want experience?
You're not understanding what hedonists are saying. Most of them consider maximizing pleasure in the long run which would include being healthy, educated, contributing to the community, and gaining new experiences, etc.

And?

>three bodies; material, mental, and spiritual
That's cute buddy, I bet they like that at your Sunday school. Please go tell it to them more instead of wasting the adults time.
But, in the vein of having actual discussion, tell me why one ought to be balanced.

gtfo until you learn how to greentext and read all of a comment

So you know, there is such a thing as hedonistic utilitarianism in which utility is defined as pleasure. Look up Peter Singer.

Then that is exactly what Plato is referring to.

I was going to make a further distinction in that post but I refrained because I thought "when it boils down to it what is the difference between utility and pleasure". Perhaps you can explain this to me.

Keep in mind I've read quite a lot. Utility seems to me to be what is pleasurable, whether in body, spirit, or mind. And if examined objectively, the case study could be anyone or anything alive, and if examined subjectively, it is the individual experiencing or yet to have experienced. What do you say?

HAHAHHAHAHH

imagine being this obvious attempting to justify living an unfulfilling life

>How can you argue against living a happy life?
Hedonism is a dead end. Maximizing earthly pleasures will only take you so far if you want a truly happy life, you must give way to the world and find Christ. Only then will you know what true happiness is, brother- the happiness of Divinity.

The main issue is that "utility" is defined different ways by different people. Some define it as "human flourishing" (which itself can be defined in many ways), others pleasure, other virtue (whatever that's supposed to mean).
And then there's the issue of people referring to utilitarianism as though it is synonymous with consequentalism (which is fine to do, it should just be made clear when done that that is what is being referred to.)
Finally, some who call themselves utilitarian might agree on what utility is, but disagree on what to do as they have different standards for what utility should be desired. For example, should we maximize utility for all future humans, or just the current generation? Should we consider fetuses in our calculations of utility?

Yeah... and what explanatory or predictive power does this "god" idea have?

Explain to me these "higher tier" sensations and why you like them better.

literally all of it, he's God

>you should live the way god tells you because it will give you the most pleasure.

I'm sick of this.

Please cease speaking of God like some preacher. The cancer killing the idea of intelligent faith is unintelligent faith. The idea that just by simple faith everything is explainable.

Have some faith in your own rhetoric. I apologize, atheist, but there were much better arguments made in this thread making a case for the existence of God.

I swear it is like you are all dumbfounded by your local Christian church's teachings. This is one of the reasons why I dislike church: it dumbs down religious reasoning.

Ignoring how you obviously didn't understand the question, what difference would we see in a universe where "god" is everything, and one in which there isn't one?

>intelligent faith
How are you defining faith?
>Have some faith in your own rhetoric
What is this even supposed to mean?
>This is one of the reasons why I dislike church: it dumbs down religious reasoning.
Fair enough, it is exceptionally dumb.

Plato also pointed out that some people are too far gone to understand the difference between hedonism as a meta-ethical stance, as in some kind of pleasure being the ultimate bedrock of an ethics, and hedonism in the popular sense, which is to say turning all of one's efforts towards a handful of intense, immediate, primal, transitory pleasures. You need to be developed as a child because otherwise you never get a real instinctive understanding about the results of being driven by base hedonism.

>is concerned with the greentext
okay

Yeah I thought this one of the more basic concepts of The Republic, but that pleasure ranking system he made with different 'orders' of pleasure was extremely innovative and creative.

Because you aren’t actually happy.

There might be a condition of humility and restraint, maybe even tolerating some unpleasantness.

Hedonism is great but you have to be smart about it in order to have happiness in the long term rather than just in the moment. That way the net happiness is greater

A great life is not necessarily a happy one. What is your argument against living a great life over a happy one in the case where both cannot occur simultaneously and one is compelled towards greatness by the (perhaps unfortunate) destined fate of one's character?

>where both cannot occur simultaneously
I would say that a great life could only ever not be a happy one when it still contributed highly to the happiness of others. I think the real issue here is that you don't realize that we're saying that a great life is one that is happy and contributes to the overall happiness of people. If your definition of greatness doesn't include happiness, then I think you have a strange and un-useful definition.

Hedonism, like Nihilism, represents philosophical heat death. There is no way to motivate the Hedonist that doesn't involve instituting illegitimate systems of authority on them (which is why most societal systems of authority try to take care of that problem by pushing people to NOT be Hedonistic in the first place). Ultimately, though, I feel its worth avoiding hedonism because there is more to experience, good bad and between, beyond the base pleasure of activating goodfeel chemicals in the brain.

The problem with hedonism as a personal philosophy is that there's no way of objectively determining what will make you happy in the medium and long term, and whether or not giving up short-term happiness is worth it.

Hedonism is the path that the man who can't control his animalistic tendencies follows

The problem with hedonism is it doesn't make you happy. Being a disgusting degenerate has consequences, in this world and the next.

Source: experienced fornicator and onanist

Your "happiness" is objectively inferior to my happiness.

>Ultimately, though, I feel its worth avoiding hedonism because there is more to experience, good bad and between, beyond the base pleasure of activating goodfeel chemicals in the brain.

There really isn't though, but it's more complex than simply the existence or non-existence of chemicals. There's nothing 'good', that doens't ultimately boil down to advancing the likelihood that someones brain configuration produces a subjectively more positive state of mind.

Because if being happy is what you consider most important in the world you're reasonably fucked in the head.
Also your "there is no afterlife therefore there is no meaning outside pleasure" is total bullshit. I could just as easily argue "there is no afterlife therefore all pleasure is temporary and meaningless compared to leaving as big a mark on the universe as possible." This argument is just as bullshit because what you consider important depends entirely on what you place value on. And all this is assuming you know the nature of the universe, what the state of death is like, and that your pursuit of happiness will be the best path to achieving happiness.

You just like having excuses to be lazy and accomplish nothing, it allows you to justify your own existence and personal failures since if you couldn't fabricate a justification for them you would be miserable and destroy your only purpose.

That's untrue and you know it. Obviously the basic motivations for all positive actions, and all attempts to avoid negative actions, are the consequential brain chemicals, but that doesn't mean the actual effects of those actions stop there. Even without a moral or ethical imperative to use as an objective axiom, we can still clearly demonstrate that 'good' deeds have 'good' consequences, at least subjectively.

Learning how to build houses only benefits the carpenter as much as the carpentry itself and the profit it brings allow for oxytocin and dopamine responses, but the actual houses provide greater effects.

user why would you fucking post that picture

Come on man. This was a decent thread.

It really isn't.

Everything can be hedonistic. The ascetic hermit in his cave is a hedonist.

define happy

Wow, the two most retarded posts I've read today, back to back.

Any philosophy thread that isn't continental memery or flat shitposting is acceptable. You didn't have to fucking shit in the urinal like that.

poor spoder

He's not the one who posted the pretty tarantula. If molting spooks you that badly you really shouldn't be on Veeky Forums.

pleasure =/= happiness

Whhhwhwhoaaaa dude

>are the consequential brain chemicals
>oxytocin and dopamine responses

Again, I'm explicitly not reducing this to brain chemicals, but I am doing so for brain states.

>but the actual houses provide greater effects
All of which are only ultimately good because of the resulting effects on individual minds. You wouldn't build a house that you knew would never be used by anyone unless you personally gained something from doing that, right? All the 'greater effects' are only good because they cause good things and prevent bad things form happening to people, and these things are only judged good or bad due to the experiences of individual minds.

Hedonism is good when there's plenty of resources for you to waste, but existentialism is much better for society
it's basically short-term happiness and destroying society vs long-term happiness and building society.

I can argue against living a happy life by arguing that life itself is always happy.

Is it just me or do you guys not know what hedonism is?

why don't you look it up?

how so

I know that you know that was just a catty way to say
>half this fucking thread doesn't even know what hedonism is.

you asked if you were the only one who didn't know what hedonism is

Because the only other option is death. The only way to live a happy life is to live regardless of whatever pain you feel.

Because pleasure isn't an instrinsic good and happiness is not the goal of the good life, it's the proper consequence of it.

often the option that is most immediately pleasurable is detrimental to long term happiness.
this has long been observed and it has long been proven that involving one's conscious in something beyond themselves (sport, religion, career, etc.) improves their overall satisfaction with life.
hedonism is what? the pursuit of pleasure? the word pleasure is far too loosely defined for that to mean anything at all.
if devoting oneself to a church and abstaining from certain vices improves somebody's life (from their own perspective) does that make them a hedonist for doing so?
"hedonism" is borderline meaningless as an actual philosophy. if you're using it to describe the constant pursuit of the most immediate pleasure available then no, it is not a good thing. ask a heroin addict.

pleasant != happy

hedonism is hating physical pain & mental [like sadness, depression] and liking physical pleasures and ideas

I won't quit the pain, I want the opioids

Exactly! I see it as an argument about the definition of happiness. Is it prolonged satisfaction with your position in life, or is it momentary bliss (such as the smoking a cigarette)?

Hedonism is fine as long as you're smart about it.

If you were a hedonist you would willingly be turned into a pig if it meant you would be 0.1% happier.

If it makes you happier then why not?

Human beings are weird animals with weird mentalities and they get caught in weird depressive loops over stupid shit even when they tell themselves they want to be happy. Just look at stuff like abusive relationships and traumas.

Hedonism is merely an answer for some and not all. More important is to do anything that provides you with balance.

happiness=/=pleasure

Who is this flimsy whimsy chimney who I wish to throw about like a frisbee and squeeze like a quinsy?

>I have just proved the concept of heaven exists. Because it very well should.
not an argument

There are different kinds of happiness. The best kind of happiness usually comes from doing things that are worth doing, which is to say, productive in some sense. Hedonism is generally non-productive, or at least fails to differentiate between productive and unproductive happiness.

You're a bad hedonist if you're not happy.

Happiness is good but purpose is better as many forms of short-sighted happiness pursuits are self-castrating. Whether there is an afterlife or not is irrelevant because:
"With or without God, each person will only get as far as their form carries them." - Sloterdijk, "You Must Change Your Life", p 39.

This is where hedonism leads you. This is what happens when you reject all meaning and live solely for "happiness". Grow up. Find something that fulfills your life. If you don't, you're gonna be suicidal when you hit 40.

So there were no great revolutionaries rebelling against the current state of affairs due to a deep dissatisfaction with them in history?

*dies of aids in an artsy squatter colony*
>mfw

there is an afterlife

Any of you /alanwatts/ or /zen/ here?
Who gives a shit about dumb stuff like hedonism when you could just let go of suffering?
Getting your dopamine with no work from dumb shit like sex and drugs is absolutely idiotic and will lead to severe mental issues, anger and physical illness.
Y'all need some psychedelics and a mere hour of listening to Alan Watts.

I'm getting tired of your stupidity. What makes great people great is what we are discussing.

>Find something that fulfills your life
>find something that makes you happy in the long-term by filling the upper hierarchy of needs

>dumb shit like sex and drugs
>and drugs
>but y'all need some psychedelics

>psychedelics
>drugs
You've literally never taken any, have you?
The experience is the exact opposite of hedonism.

any recs?

Fulfillment isn't equivalent to happiness. You'd understand this if you weren't retarded.