Who's stronger : Evola or Guenon?

Yeah:

Mathers, Eckart, Agrippa, Blavatsky, Hall, Massey, Kuhn, Steiner, Levi, Barret, Crowley, Spare, Velikovsky, Plotinus, Plato, Adi Sankara, Zhuangzi, Laozi, Huangbo, Orpheus, Homer, Virgil, Damte, Aquinas, Blake

instead of just fake politically motivated sterile faggotry from sexually frustrated facecels

Thanks :)

Böhme, Jung, Spengler, N, Bruno (his akshual works) again people who studied all of these things in depth instead of what amounts to instruction for bourgeoisie reactionary faggots

>being this assblasted

>Implying it's not larping being Muslim in the west

ah this was a very gay, redditesque post, you should think about how animalistic and stupid it makes you look and consider not posting at all for the rest of the month or year. really try to mull over how knee-jerk, reactionary and apelike that post was

Guénon. Evola fanboys are the worst excuse of a human being I've ever seen. I've actually never read ebola, but goddamn those I know who've read him are just total fucking losers. And I don't go around calling others losers.

>Crowley
How dare you compare that charlatan with those wise leaders!

>I've actually never read ebola

>implying it is

This. fpbp

>1000 years ago

It is larping now.

René

No, Islam is actually really taking over Europe, it's very different from some neckbeards LARPing to be pagans or something.

Being an early adaptor is not LARPing.

>bourgeoisie reactionary
a knee-jerk response if I ever saw one

I once thought like you.

However after 11 years, 4 of which I spent in Madrassas in the middle east, I see it as silly and one of the most transparently false religions around. Mormon tier bs.

Every other Muslim convert I met seemed to have a mental disorder and most seemed to be attracted to it because of it's edginess, lacking in critical thinking skills and emotionally unbalanced.

It's not about truth, it's about evolutionary fitness of the memeplex.

Evola could write at least.

Its not really about muslims converting others en masse but the constant immigration of muslims to Europe that would cause it to become islamic.

>you should think about how animalistic and stupid it makes you look
ironic desu

It’s astonishing that evo-psych people can say shit like that without recognizing that who deserves credit for the idea is Marx, not Dawkins.

The whole thing about ‘definite relations of production determining the consciousness of men’ is that at any given time people publish tons of weird ideas, but the ones that become popular or even universal are the result of the specific economic and social conditions of the society at the time. The dominate ideology will always be something which justifies the position of the ruling class, because if that wasn’t the dominate ideology, some other class would come to rule.

People will believe what allows them to make sense of their position in life, and is compatible with how they already understand the world as working.

Why did Darwin’s ideas catch on so quickly in Europe’s higher classes? Because it lent itself to understanding hierarchy as natural and inevitable. Why did Marxism catch on among Europe’s working class? Because it explained how they experienced the world.

I’m not disputing the truth of Darwin, I think that is of course the most accurate way of understanding then diversity of life, but I also recognize that the reason why it caught on quickly in Europe. I’m America, where there is a different system for the justification of political authority and the structure of society, and consequently evolution still hasn’t caught on in much of the country.

which justification do seppos use?

>4 years in madrassas in the middle east
Where exactly? I'm not really sure what you expected to get out of that.

Yemen

People think differently when they are brainwashed

Plato
stop memeing orientalists

I think Evola could beat Guenon in a fight, he's got that aristocratic tenacity and daring

Evola was wheelchair bound

>greeks
>not orientalists

Interesting. If you don't mind, could you elaborate on your experiences leading up to and being there? I'm always interested in stories like that, probably because I can't stand instability in my life and hence only travel the beaten path.
I also need inspiration for my writing
Thanks

Evola

Evola basically adopted all of Guenon's ideas and then applied them to other stuff. Both are interesting and worth reading, but ultimately Evola is in the shadow of Guenon.

Someone interested in Traditionalism, metaphysics or eastern philosophy would be better off reading Guenon, then the actual eastern texts themselves, and then after that selectively reading the specific works by Evola that they are particularly interested in.

Evola's emphasis on the spiritual warrior over the priestly caste and Guenons disgreement with him on this are emblematic of their wider differences.

Guenon more takes the view that the traditional way is correct and that the priestly/intellectual class and related matters should be of most importance and that even if liberal democracy is anti-traditional/degenerate one can always practice the traditional spiritual path on their own wherever they are and that one's personal spiritual path takes precedence over trivial political matters.

Evola focused more on the warrior class despite them being subservient to the metaphysical/religious in most traditions and as such advocated a much more active invovement in political life and temporal matters generally, including through far-right political movements if needed.

Evola is partially right in that most of the eastern traditions are at their heart hierarchical, anti-egalitarian, and hostile to progressive ideals, a view shared by Guenon. But I feel like he stops short of the whole truth when he takes that lesson and advocates radical action.

The core teaching of most of these traditions is to focus on the transcendent and not the temporal. That doesn't necessarily preclude one from participating in politics, debating the right course of action or related matters but Evola seems to over-emphasize the political and not clearly enough state the primary importance of the metaphysical.

It seems almost as though Evola internalizes a more materialist-like view of linear history rather than the cyclical. A more traditionally-rooted view would be that one should personally always take the right course of action but that the temporal is trivial and a part of Maya, that what seems important to use is in reality insignificant, and that whatever happens the ultimate metaphysical truth/reality will continue existing regardless of the folly of people at one specific place and time. Most of the traditions teach that one reaches the ultimate state by focusing on the Tao/Brahman/Enlightenment/etc which precludes developing an attachment to the temporal.

Well, I wanted to attain certainty, "the truth", but the more I learnt the more I doubted it and eventually had to accept that I was wrong in the first place.

Islam makes people shittier.

Also I was heavily influenced by guenon when I decided to move in that direction.

I meant more about how you ended up in Yemen in the first place. Did you have connections there it did you just randomly fly over? Did the people there accept you? Stuff like that.

Yes I knew someone who went there before

I lived in a sufi lodge so I mostly interacted with the other 'students'.

I see. Thanks

It's actually pretty easy to get there. They have a website and some English speaking student maintaining an email to deal with English speaking applications... Then you just get a visa from your country and go

which Levi do you mean? There are a lot user

>dante
>not a facecel

Evolalarps and other reactionary traditionalists are a sad case. Romanticizing a romanticized never-existing version of aristocracy. Neetzschum already shat over them, but they were too biased to understand.

Spengler is too high IQ for alt-right.
Good list from what I can tell.

Lmao, this guy just listed everyone he's read.

No semblance of anyone in particular having written on perennialism or tradition.

why the long face

None are perfect, but Guenon's Reign of Quantity was pretty damn on point and his writing style is so clear it makes piecing his metaphysics together an easy task. I particularly liked how he said man can sink lower than materialism, that being Mechanization and how Psychology/Psychoanalysis are those driving agents of mechanization. He likened Psychology/psycholanalysis to black magic via suggestion and its rather hard to argue that considering its never solved any of societies problems, only exacerbated them and exploited them for profit.

Manly P hall was great, but he was greatly cucked by American Freemasonry which is a nigger of its former glory, and Even Albert Pike in the 1840's said that. Freemasonry has since been used to further Jewish, Communist and Humanist movements.

I believe in his lecture "Mans orgin and destiny" he said that eventually we all mix together and become one beautiful mud-race. Lost alot of respect for him there, considering he appears to be such a proponent of natural law and tradition which both include racial pride and identity.

Crown chakra in the atemporal realm of perfect forms, chin chakra in the material plane

Perfectly centered

>whao look at him hes looks gay XDDDDD
you likely wouldnt be manly enough to live up to his moral expectations traditional man.

>However after 11 years, 4 of which I spent in Madrassas in the middle east, I see it as silly and one of the most transparently false religions around. Mormon tier bs.
Would like to confirm this too for someone who spent the last two years of elementary school in a Madrasa in a SEA country.

They brought us to an audiovisual room of 32 children nearing the end of the year and played a documentary about the world going to an end. The premise is exactly that the Jews are part of the illuminati which is going to bring humanity closer to apocalypse, sooner or later the verses on quran about the signs of the incoming apocalypse are going to reveal itself in the world more and more(the trigger being the creation of israel and destruction of the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem), then Jesus will descend from heaven to Mecca, the great Imam will also reveal himself to the muslim community of the world(whose lineage could be traced back to Muhammad himself), then the apocalypse will begin, the Ummah with Jesus and the great Imam will combat against the army of Dajjal(anti-christ), and after the victory humanity will end, all dogs and pigs will be killed, and fire will engulf the whole earth.

The "Dajjal" is a very important thing when some of you are interested of the lunacy of those people actually gave in to the indoctrination process to fight for the Islamic State, the apparent sign of the coming of Dajjal being the modern civilization and the immorality and the weakness of the people (weeks after weeks you will be kept in isolation with several other people and were guided in quran studies and were told about the islamic war stories of the medieval age).

Why does Guenon looks like a bull terrier

He fucking does lmao

Why are they such proponents for racial pride and identity?

holy shit
how did he even get a face like that

Guenon is a "Deus otiosus" in traditionalism. So Evola.
Shit! I thought I was the only one who had noticed it.
Living in Paris Guenon was a big opiate addict.

eliphas obviously

>Blavatsky
>Massey
>Kuhn
>Steiner
>Velikovsky
Is this a fucking joke?

stop making scapegoats out of Guenon and Evola

3/4 of those are modernist garbage though

they are both dead now though

>Dissing Kuhn
Pleb

>Guenon more takes the view that the traditional way is correct and that the priestly/intellectual class and related matters should be of most importance and that even if liberal democracy is anti-traditional/degenerate one can always practice the traditional spiritual path on their own wherever they are and that one's personal spiritual path takes precedence over trivial political matters.
Guenon explicitly said that there's no such thing as "personal initiation". you either attach yourself to an unbroken chain of tradition or you are just deluding yourself

Evola is more open about this and acknowledges the possibility of personal initiation for some people born with the right nature, for example in his exploration of buddhism in "the doctrine of awakening"

sounds like /pol/ but with more brimstone and fire and killing dogs

e s o t e r i c

...

>crowley
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

did crowley as a poet write anything decent? i downloaded a small book from him but it was about eating literal shit and i kind of lost interest in reading more

He said that, implying he thought he himself was of that nature,but in the end he never found anything and gave up.

in what book does he give up?

What a fucking bitch ass lmao. You don't even know that he was talking about Alvin Kuhn, not Thomas Kuhn, kiddo.

Gooey non because he didn't wholesale slaughter people

>Yemeni Sufism

That's where you went wrong the Sufi's in Yemen are renowned for quackery. Anything not rooted in Quran and Sunnah is going to be pure quackery. Let me guess your Sufi masters believed they had "special powers" and they prayed to Saints?

evola is more entertaining to read, guenon seems more serious and autistic

this is false, he says personal initiation is only option left in Ride the Tiger

Yes and he never figured out how

I said I spent time with Egyptians and indians too.

Ride the tiger

He realized he couldnt find initiation so decided riding the tiger of the Kali yuga, controlled indulgence, was the only option... So nihilism

>serious and autistic
The Brahmin's lifestyle in a nutshell desu.

so is ride the tiger just about nihilism? i assumed it would be something like creating a new initiated elite to be able to restart the cycle when dissolution is maximal and we hit rock bottom like Guenon hints at some points

And were they Sufi as well? Ahl al Sunnah? Or as the more likely case with "Sufi's" Ahl al Bidah?

It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.”

Were you really a Muslim on the proper Aqeedah or were you like many Guenonite's (unfortunately) who went from Sufi cult to Sufi cult and got burnt out by the insanity of these groups? Tasawwuf is one thing but blatant bidah and shirk is another.

hasn't the islamic world been cleansed from tradition by the UK and the US pretty quickly? isn't ISIS just a postmodern counterpart of our passive nihilism with their active nihilism? Or are there countries that still maintain relatively traditional structures?

are you telling me guenon is even more autistic than evola????

Evola is emotional and is fun to read, he is autistic in putting a million references but i like that as you can see where he is coming from

Guenon is meticulous but he is no fun and he rarely references much of what he says, he is more like preaching to young retards from an older kind wiser guy with no time for bullshit

>hasn't the islamic world been cleansed from tradition by the UK and the US pretty quickly?

Depends on what you mean by tradition. In a Guenion sense I don't really think that is even a valid concept. I dropped Perennialism a long time ago. The various "traditions" are fundamentally different and contradictory, they are not spokes revolving around Logos or any such perennialist gabilty gook (IMO).

There are many traditions in the Islamic world and most of them are bad. These involve a lot of Sufi innovations after the prophet (SAWS) and the Sahaba (Allah have mercy upon them). Calling upon saints, getting drunk/high, musical "worship", etc..

The UK and US have had no effect that I'm aware of on the core theology of Islam.

>isn't ISIS just a postmodern counterpart of our passive nihilism with their active nihilism?

ISIS are what in Islamic terminology you would call Khawarji. These are a misguided sect the prophet (SAWS) said would plague the world and the Ummah (Muslim community). They are extreme in wanting to attack and kill anyone who disagrees with them and killing innocent civilians and fellow Muslims despite that being one of the most major sins that will guarantee you hell fire. The Ummah has had to deal with this group in various forms from the time of Muhammad (SAWS) until today.

"Allah's Messenger (saws) said: Verily there would arise from my Ummah after me a group (of people) who would recite the Quran, but it would not go beyond their throats, and they would pass clean through their religion just as the arrow passes through the prey, and they would never come back to it. They would be the worst among the creation and the creatures."

>Or are there countries that still maintain relatively traditional structures?

As stated previously there are many traditions which are upheld is the Islamic world that are not rooted in Quran and Sunnah, and therefore are not valid. The only legitimate source of authority for deriving Islamic doctrines and legal rulings are the Quran and Sunnah.

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Every innovation is misguidance and going astray" Reported by Abu Daawood (no. 4607), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676) and it is saheeh. Ibn Hajr authenticated it Takhreej Ahaadeeth Ibn ul-Haajib (1/137).

And he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also said: "… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire." Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (1/224) from Jaabir bin Abdullaah and it is saheeh as declared by Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo' ul-Fataawaa (3/58).

I believe he expanded on the concepts he introduced in Ride the Tiger in his later book The Bow and the Club.

haven't read any of those, it's just the impression i had about Ride the Tiger from outside and from reading some other of Evola's works

revolt against the modern world wasn't very emotional

not sure if emotional was a good description, passionate maybe would fit better. haven't read Revolt so maybe that's a more depressing book, the only books from Evola i've read are his early ones exploring different traditional systems like the buddhist one, the tantric one, the hermetic one and the magic one, maybe he is more disillusioned and autistic on his later, more political works

i'm fairly certain he is given his attitude of ride the tiger. i'm planning on reading his earlier works, any recommendations??

I am an Indian born into Islam, grew up in the west and became religious in my teens... I mostly spent my time with naqshbandis before going back to India to find something more substantial, which I didn't find. Before that I had learnt Arabic to a level where I could understand the quran and simple fiqh books. Then I went to Egypt to improve my language skills and try find something there, still no success. After going to Yemen I went back to the western country I live in now, that's when I read guenon and other traditionalists.

It's the writings of someone who found no way out, so gave into despair, but not the whiny negative kind of despair.

I just realized you are a wahhabi. Wake up man. There is no way Islam is true in any sense of the word. There is no true aqeedah, it's all bs.