On Reading Translations

When I was younger and more naive, I thought that I would learn languages so as to read literature in each book's original language. Accordingly, in college, I studied Latin, Ancient Greek, and French. I found that learning languages is very challenging, yet with a lot of hard work you can successfully read through literature in its original language -- though it is not really enjoyable.

I then entered a period where I forsook my earlier attitude and decided to read things in translation, for at least I would get the content and do so in enjoyable, welcome English, yes?

Reading the Fagles Iliad translation, I cannot finish it. Because what I am ultimately reading is Fagles, derived from Homer. I am not reading Homer, nor am I even reading the Iliad: I am reading a long poem by Fagles inspired by Homer. What I want to read is Homer: his word choice, his sentence structure, etc.

The translation ends up being something debilitating, something that makes things easier but which ultimately sacrifices something greater. By having a translation available, why not just read it? So you do, and you spoil the opportunity to meet the original author properly.

I return to my original attitude. Works are only thoroughly appreciated when read in the original language. And instead of working through it to work through it, to say that I have done it, I should do it slowly and savor each sentence, each paragraph as I have understood it.

What is your opinion on the matter?

must suck to have such a desire but not the will to fulfill it.
of you want to read Homer, read Homer. Hell the guy was a singer or whatever, you're never going to read him ever anyway.

I'm a native German speaker. Read everything in German until I was 23. I was enormously interested in the English language from very early on but for some reason didn't pick up an English original until then. I never went back. If you enjoy the language, it's a grand thing to do. If not, you're bound to fail as I did with my recent attempt to read 100 years of solitude in Spanish. That holds true for all learning by the way.

wait, you converted to english from german and haven't looked back?

basically you are 100% correct. No work is truly replicable in another language. But ultimately am I going to spend years learning Russian just to read War and peace? and then when ive read that decide i want to read Rimbaud so I learn French? its unrealistic to say you can learn every language to read all these texts because we ultimately don't have the time to master all these languages alongside living a life to get proficient enough to properly appreciate these texts.

I'm currently learning Ancient Greek and Latin, Latin Ive been doing for some years and can read texts but it takes a lot of work and In Greek classes we need ridiculous amounts of aides and help in order to read basic Aesop fables.

So translations provide the best insight we have into the authors word choices but ultimately we can't say that is the true work of the original writer. Try and learn a language if you are interested in a certain nations literature but realistically you wont be able to learn every language to complete the canon

>knowledge is culturally specific and non-transmutable
wew lad

you dont actually like reading

I think he never went back to reading translations of English speaking authors, that is at least what happened to me.

>The Awful German Language by Mark Twain

this. >reading translation threads are worse than rupi threads, peterson threads, where-should-start-with-x threads, spook threads, dfw threads, kindle or real books threads. just kys, bro

the problem with getting taught by accademics is you get loaded with their goals as well

just read childrens books and have fun
come back to the classics every year or so for fun, but only read translations for fun's sake, always

>I do not understand poetry

This, unless you really commit to a language, your understanding of it will be so poor you may as well read the translation since the translator will understand the original language much better than you.

You will never see Shakespeare’s plays in the Globe theater as he intended it, why even bother?

You will never hear the Greek dramas/poems as they were originally sung and intended, why even bother?

>Works are only thoroughly appreciated when read in the original language
This isn't true.

Also, it's a delusion thinking you can "meet the original author" because you read them in the original. The allusions, references, shades of meaning that Homer put into the Iliad - these are as good as lost to everyone - we're not ancient Greeks.

A text is a text. Take from it what you can.

Learning Russian for around 2 years now. I am still so far from reading fluency that it's disheartening. It's not the grammar or the phrasing that is the problem so much as sheer weight of vocabulary. It's very hard to pick up a lot of vocabulary without constant immersion.

That said as time has gone on I've cared less about the eend goal of reading big books. I can access a whole new side of the internet now that I can understand reasonably well, and I've found that more than anything I just enjoy learning languages for its own sake.

I've recently picked up Latin as well, which is fun. I'm having a much easier time with it than Russian

To clarify my Russian is more than good enough for blog posts, everyday language and childrens books. The jump in vocabulary to something like Gogol or even the strugatsky brothers is huge, and it makes reading them a massive chore.

It's amazing what languagelets will delude themselves into believing. Stay monolingual and buttmad.

If you don't read translations you're either an ignoramus or you know 15 languages.

>>Works are only thoroughly appreciated when read in the original language
>thoroughly
>This isn't true.
This is true. I find use of connotation to be a very effective tool. Introducing connotation in a selective manner to draw attention to it can deliver an entire alternate message without adding a single word to the text. When the translator reaches a crux like this he is forced to either abandon the connotation or elaborate - either losing the meaning altogether or abandoning the fluidity.

So you get bogged down in the semantics of the word "thoroughly"

Shakespeare THOROUGHLY enjoyed Ovid's metamorphoses in translation. Because the beauty of Daphne and Apollo or Actaeon can be translated.

Is there loss? Yes, it's inevitable, but there's also MUCH which is not lost.

This smacks of Sextus skepticism: I don't want to endorse anything below perfect and so I allow nothing. Well, you already endorse something short of perfect by reading a dead culture's text.

The literate Ancients had Homer committed to memory. Should you not only learn Ancient Greek, but memorize the Oddyssey before reading the Aeneid? And even then how much is lost anyway!

If anyone asked me if they should learn Greek to read Homer I would say absolutely.... if you've read the translations several times and adore them and wish to engage with the text further. There is so much in Homer which survives translation: imagery, themes, characters.... if you find the translation a slog it's possibly a personal distaste for Homer, not the failings of translation.

This is 100% true for poetry. For prose it depends on how unique the author's prose is.

If good translations are available, there is no reason to learn the language of the original. I spent 1,5 years learning Japanese only to realise that all I'm getting is the same shit, only worded differently. Exactly the same shit, only the words are different. Well almost, Japanese keigo cannot be translated, but keigo is made up anyway and not critical. The only practical reason I don't consider learning Japanese a waste is because there often aren't translations for what I am into. Also, Japanese songs are just so much more pleasing when you understand the language directly, somehow, not to mention the bad translations of everything. Lyrics are not critical though (explains the insane popularity of nonsensical vocaloid songs).

Depends on the purpose behind your reading for the most part. For instance if poetic qualities are extremely important for you then nine times out of ten you will suffer from not reading the original likewise things will suffer if you want to learn an authors voice.

However if ideas and concepts are more important then in most cases it wont matter.

>something that makes things easier but which ultimately sacrifices something greater.
Dont forget the oppertunity cost in learning those languages reading things in the original brings its own and very large sacrifices as well.

>I return to my original attitude. Works are only thoroughly appreciated when read in the original language

Is appreciation of the text the best use of or the goal of reading though?

To put it in another context how would you respond to the notion that you can only appreciate a work if you are fully familiar with the authors life, views, cultural background and the mainstream scholarship on the work.

I ONLY read books originally written in English my senpai.