/clas/ - Classical Greek and Roman Literature Thread

Beyond saving.

If it's just to understand that scene in tombstone, yes learn Latin

You could watch it with subtitles but you wouldn't understand that everything they said were Latin cliches or common phrases.
It seems like a pseud exchange desu. They both knew the stock phrases but it didn't seem like either actually knew the language to any extent.

Still a great scene though.

How different do you guys think history would have been if the isthmus connecting Peloponnesus to the main land didn't exist? I think that tiny land bridge had extreme importance to Greek history. Any books about the effect geography had on ancient Greece? Its also interesting that Euboea and its tail of islands were part of the same mountain range as the coast of thressaly, but we're submerged into the Mediterranean due to a fault.
If that fault didn't exist Greece would have been a large price of land like Spain or Italy instead of the numerous islands. This of course would have had a huge impact on Greek history too.

80. Thus was the peace and league concluded; and whatsoever one had taken from the other in the war, or whatsoever one had against another otherwise, was all acquitted. Now, when they were together settling their business, they ordered that the Argives should neither admit herald nor ambassage from the Athenians till they were gone out of Peloponnesus and had quit the fortification, nor should make peace or war with any without consent of the rest. [2] And amongst other things which they did in this heat, they sent ambassadors from both their cities to the towns lying upon Thrace and unto Perdiccas, whom they also persuaded to swear himself of the same league. Yet he revolted not from the Athenians presently, but intended it, because he saw the Argives had done so, and was himself also anciently descended out of Argos. They likewise renewed their old oath with the Chalcideans and took another besides it. The Argives sent ambassadors also to Athens, requiring them to abandon the fortification they had made against Epidaurus. [3] And the Athenians, considering that the soldiers they had in it were few in respect to the many others that were with them in the same, sent Demosthenes to fetch them away. He, when he was come and had exhibited for a pretence a certain exercise of naked men without the fort, when the rest of the garrison were gone forth to see it, made fast the gates; and afterwards having renewed the league with the Epidaurians, the Athenians by themselves put the fort into their hands.

82. The next summer the Dictidears seated in Mount Athos revolted from the Athenians to the Chalcideans.
And the Lacedaemonians ordered the state of Achaia after their own form, which before was otherwise. [2] But the Argives, after they had by little and little assembled themselves and recovered heart, taking the time when the Lacedaemonians were celebrating their exercises of the naked youth, assaulted the few; and in a battle fought within the city, the commons had the victory; and some they slew, others they drave into exile.

What did Hobbes mean by the sporting youths?

Was "the law of Greece" codified, an ambiguous assortment of customs or just shit cited on the spot to justify invasions?

We could expect the ethnic composition of ancient Greece to change in that scenario. Supposing we start extrapolating timelines at certain points in time, the Pelopponesus might take longer to be colonized, or, Mycenean Civilization might persist in some form, or, Greece to Attica might have been annexed readily by the Persians but the Pelopponesus may have remained independent, or, The Delian league prevails over all of Greece.

But most later events would have happened Isthmus or not, Philipp's triumphs and the Roman conquests, etc.

>Reading Herodotus
>Xerxes just assembling his army
>All of a sudden he breaks out in tears over the brevity of human life
>Artabanos responded that there is so much misfortune & illness that even a short life seems long. The wish to rather be dead than alive will occur not just once but often and after all the hardship, death proves a human being’s most welcome escape

Jesus, I didn't expect these feels in the middle of an army getting ready for an invasion.

>reading Herodotus
>realize Aristagoras is a moustache-twirling dastardly supervillain
>laugh my ass off at the entire Ionian Revolt and the Peloponnesian conflicts under Cleomenes

>momento

momonto meme

What's a good book to demonstrate the actual physical appearance of society in antiquity? I'm talking cities, soldiers, etc. As much as I try to control my inner 6 yo I fucking love artistic representations.
Looking mainly for Graeco-Persian war era right now, something as a companion to Herodotus, but something more general will work too.

Four Thousand Years Ago by Geoffrey Bibby is a damn good book on bronze age anitiquity.

>tfw the catalog of ships is unironically interesting to me now that I know more about the mycenaean and cretan civilizations of that time and can see the relative strengths of the different parts of Greece around 1200 BC.

It is and I fucking hate him.

What are some good books on he Greco Roman history

Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophontis Hellenica, Xenophontis Anabasis, Arrian, Quintus Curtius, Diodorus Siculus, Justin, Caesar, Sallust, Livy, Tacitus, Suetonius, Ammianus Marcellinus

resources for learning latin? buying all of CLC books seems too expensive

Wheelocks Latin and Essential Latin Vocabulary by Mark A.E. Williams (This is an excellent vocabulary builder - it is based on a statistical study of 200 Latin authors and picks out the 1,425 most common words by frequency.)
Once you're done wheelock's Latin, get an intermediate reader (wheelock has one as well which is a natural extension of the grammar book)

Best spanish translations of Homer?

This.

Best way to build greek vocabulary?

Is the Richmond Lattimore translation of the Odyssey any good?

Lattimore is the second best Greek translator (Iliad, Odyssey, New testament, Aristophanes, pindar, etc.).
The best is Dryden.

Spanish is close enough to Greek, just read the original

Four Thousand Years seems to double over the time period I'm interested in, but I'll check it out. Does it have illustrations?

cheers

Enuma Elish
The Epic of Gilgamesh
Atra-Hasis

What else is there in the same vein? I'm enjoying myself too much to move onto a new pantheon.

The debate between bird and fish
+all other debates..

Not strictly speaking /clas/-related but I recently learned that John Williams wrote a book called Augustus which is an epistolary, historical novel. The only work of his that I am familiar with is Stoner and I was wondering if Augustus is worth reading.

>epistolary novel
No

Best Aristotle translation and text?

REMINDER: all pathetic fat meds think that there are buxom women in the old country who want them like this. this is just an advanced form of beta lust hidden by """alpha""" guido behavior

Stoner, Augustus and butchers crossing are all good books

>>i.4cdn.org/lit/1511555062371.png (What Translation of Homer Should I Read?)
Dead link. Can you post the image?

>written in 1961
No fucking thanks my guy. There's been too much discovery pertaining to individual bronze- and iron- age societies (to say nothing of the collective wholes) since then to justify using that book.