>>10652884

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>implying
<
>>not even knowing that correlation and causation are sometimes double-sided and dual-arrowed in the human machine
>not knowing that stopping outer manifestations of a certain psychological attitude and outlook will eventually change that outlook
>not knowing that things like changing posture, making a fake/deliberate frown or fake/deliberate smile has an effect on our mood
>not knowing that deliberately changing language will change thought-patterns which will over time beneficially influence emotions and attitudes
I seriously hope you guys aren't pretending you know anything about anything

>i'm a totalitarian lunatic and also going to self-own myself with superfluous greentext
>i said human machine
>but i'm not a real physicalist
>i think mental illnesses are real
>but I don't know they're incurable
kys

>i think mental illnesses are real
Everyone thinks that, why do you mark it so much.
Do you think otherwhise?

Why should we prevent suicides?

its like this is truly the brainlet board. all these hours spent (wasted) reading, for what, for mere entertainment? you seem to know shit about how human behavior works. user here points some truths about it, but user here just proves this board is nothing but "patrician" larping without an ounce of understanding of any issue that truly matters (like human capacity for change and mental health).

>should
please, user, go back and re read the sentence.

>You should care because this tool could prevent suicides.

Behaviour preceeds cognition quite often. I would be surprised if making a conscious effort to change your word choices didn't have a positive impact

did i write that anyone "should" anything?

what are you reading, user?

>everyone thinks that
I don't care at all
>do you think otherwise
yes

but that's not what I was saying, the OP is retarded because its predicated on baiting and switching materialist logic. You would never try to change the person's language to fix mental illness as a physicalist, you would alter their genome or nervous system directly. This is just an excuse for soviet style thought policing, hence lunatic totalitarian is what I called OP or whoever the sperg midwit is that's trying to fight the whole board (half of whom agree with him that mental illness is physical but would never be stupid enough to think that controlling language makes a difference). You should think clearly about what the axioms you are using entail. If it is a self evident rule that genes control phenotypes and that this accounts for variation in CNS structure, including pathologies like mental illnesses, then its also self-evident that changing scenery, being nice to them and giving them goodies and head-pats, asking them to have good ideation is not going to work. You need to, from this presupposed belief, get inside their machinery and change the way it functions along with its structure. Which is even more totalitarian than policing their language, but regardless is still the more intelligent and coherent decision. What you're asking for is absolutely retarded, sounds like something a bureacrat or a pseudo-religious psychiatrist would advocate for. Attacking people who say "I" instead of "they" is a veiled assault on individualism and higher intelligence persons as well. Linking to a website which is not an academic journal on neuroscience is basically evidence I have no reason to talk with this person. If you'd like to discuss non-physicalist theories of mental illness, read Deleuze and Foucalt, make an OP about their ideas. This is trash though, totally unusable for discourse, you can't talk about this idea because its asinine from either dominant perspective on the mental health issue. Scientist would just want to medicate, electroshock, euthanize, perform surgery on, genetically engineer the loonies, idealists would probably just encourage them to pursue art or some kind of self-dialectic or other coping mechanism.

Do you are really so stupid that you think this board is something more than a bunch of idiots and losers who larp as being wealthy, patrician and intelligent?
Lol, think twice
This board is cancer and always had been
Do you want something civilesed and intelligent? Go back to fucking reddit then

>I don't care at all
I also don't care about the opinion of a loser who doesn't want to improve himself and believe that his flaws are adventages
Lmao, I am not going to read that wall of text.

lol @ this paranoid pseud.

but, here sweetie, the research linked in the very OP link:
journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2167702617747074

What is the purpose of this post then >You should care because this tool could prevent suicides.
Is exactly what it says.

I beat that the half that the losers that larp as libertarian and Rand readers are fat virgins who leach their rich parents and read Fountainhead and about egoism to stop feeling bad about it

I don't read novels and poetry and shit to analyze human behavior, there's psychology for that. It's even scientific!
However, you don't need any books to realize that OP's proposal is profoundly retarded, banning words because of a correlation and supporting that with Arrival-tier science.

i thought this board was a little less shit. im impressed. behavioralism and CBT are old as fuck, too, theyre like common knowledge.

point me where i said "you should do x", please, user.

lo and behold, the thread that exposed the Veeky Forums fraud

samefagging extremely hard and its blatantly obvious

?

jfc you mentally ill fuck, stop switching IP's

>I knew
Depressed poster spotted

You have to actually prove causation though. And just because depression causes people to speak like that doesn't mean the other way around works too

If you ask me, I think this is totally bullshit.

You're confusing cause and effect.
The most effective treatment for depression seems to be psilocybin mushrooms in a controled environement, with a sitter, coupled with therapy/integration-oriented follow-up.

>just because depression causes people to speak like that doesn't mean the other way around works too
Why not? How do you know? Why deny it before any testing? Is Veeky Forums this afraid of the real world? Jfc you guys are so unexperimental, uncreative and timid about life it quite explains why theres no OC here, only retarded threads about useless philosophy.

Cause and effect are interchangeable, specially if we talk about the mind.

this.

>theconversation.com/people-with-depression-use-language-differently-heres-how-to-spot-it-90877

>Banning words

It doesn't work like that, friend. Language is just one of the ways in which we perceive the world around us. It goes beyond the meaning of the words, it's more about abstract propositions and how they connect with each other in order to provide semantic meaning. By banning words, a depressed patient would eventually still connect the same concepts only using different propositions. A depressed patient suffers from a biological disorder, again, it goes beyond conduct and the use of words.

Still, interesting study you got there.

>depressed people are self-centered and dramatic
wow who knew

The most effective treatment for depression is a change of lifestyle. If you do bad things, you will feel bad.

That's a very weird way to take language into this game.

Psychoanalysis. It's the practice that goes exactly about that, but in a completely different way.

First because rather than "depressed people" vs "normal functioning people", psychoanalysis will look for what is the particular mode of suffering, how you relate to your probelms and so on. It understands it as more than a physical disfunction, but one that is derived by how one relates to one's world, so you can address your own discomfort honestly, assuming responsibilities and also releasing one from unecessary burdens.

Second because there is no normative way to use language, it's not about what you use more or less and then balancing it out. Why? Both this and the first point are that to "cure" is not like a mystical mutation of a depressed person into a happy person, it's not about making the symptoms dissapear, that dismisses the depressed's suffering as mere illusion, rather than treat his words in a fair way.

Not to mention it's completely ridiculous to force or ban people to use or not use words, that's straight dystopian shit.

What Freud did when (inspired by Breuer) he "just" listened to what his patients were saying, without interfering in an ordinary way and instead just picking up some things that came along is precisely to make the patient listen to himself. To be able to truly listen to what oneself is saying is the goal and what makes it into a more everlasting attention that accompanies the person for life.

Whether one speaks too much "I" or if that relates to depression, it's something that patient oneself will tackle, even if unconsciously. If only one hears that one is talking to much "I" the feeling of "I'm saying this word too much" is enough to ripple into everything else he says and does from then on, even if sometimes one would have to "fall into" this realization many times before it changes, as it moves inbetween other connected issues and consequences to those words. It's like untangling a knot, in which you have to pull a bit here and there.

However, Psychoanalysis has never been able to solve SHIT.

>let's ban depressed people from talking on the board
>the literature board
fuck off calvino junior, kill yourself it's already been done much like your idea to second person everything. have an example of outer focus:
you're a cunt.

Of course it did and it does, user.

>all le libertarian autists screaming out looud because of "stalinist" ban of words
Holy shit you spergs. Its a ban that the patient engages with, it presuposses a therapy going on. I talked about it as a therapeuthic strategy, not some goverment intervention, lol these kids have never dealt with anything.

I concede the guy 4 posts up that banning the use of words would end up in the guy replacing these with other stuff. Here is where we use strategic/systemic therapy tools, like ordeals. Ie. Guy fails the ban, then he has to make a task that will pull him further out of his own ass, etc.

What i dont like about the study is that it fives so little info, pretty sure they are holding up on some cool stuff, i dont buy them having a powerful speech analysis software in 2018 and it only concluding "gee these people talk too much about themselves".

It wont and hasnt ever. Its a luxury, a scam for the rich that can afford 10 year (((therapy))).

no it isn't

>montypython.gif

youtu.be/YwUoFlbNLYE

The I, me , my statements are actually really important in theraputic dialogue and conflict resolution.
Prevents you from accusing others and focuses on how you feel.
Understanable, alot of deoressed people feel like the world rests on their shoulders and always internalizes issues and finds a way to blame themselves.
Being depressed is a very narcisstic delusion/malady as it usually deals with self-worth.

In business you arent supposed to refer to yourself in the cover letter but rather your accomplishments.

In mindfullness therapy they use some cbt and depersonalization methods of examining your thoughts and feelings in a sort of detatchment from them

The absolutes is also understanable since generalization take a psychic toll.
For example the correct psychology school of thought isnt just cognitive or just behavioral or just psychodynamic/analytic. But rather an amalgamation of them .
When you live your life in abolutes you miss alot of nuance that you find confusing and illogical rather than something to be appreciated. And when you apply abolutes to the human condition you get more opportunities to fail then to succeed escpially when you know the human condition adapts and changes to each case.

This is why Immanuel Kant was a real piss ant and not so much fun at parties.

>Attack on individualism
There's no reason for us to attack individualists, since they will eventually kill themselves as this new study shows.

I think OP makes a little sense. I wouldn't agree with everything but I think that a patient making a conscious effort to change the words that they use may make a difference.

It seems that both depression and the words that people use are a result of their worldview, both external and internal. How they think the world works and what they think of themselves. Making an effort to monitor and alter the language you use will make you more aware of the way you view the world. Perhaps if one focuses too much on Us VS Them, or if they spend too much time dwelling on particular ideas or people. I don't think that word choice on it's own is enough to cure depression, but it could have the potential to function as an effective aid.

By far the most effective way to cure depression comes from within, with medication being the equivalent of putting a band aid over a broken axle. Altering someone's brain chemistry can alleviate symptoms in the short term, but to truly cure someone they need to shift the way they see both themselves and the world around them. Unfortunately, this is asking a broken machine to fix itself. The more tricks and aids we can use to give people a fighting chance the more likely it is that people will be able to find a permanent solution.

Or something along those lines.

Why should I care what you're saying?

It's how we have come to regard 'good' scientific practice...

heck off with this sapir whorf nonsense bro.

Using a language rule as a therapy is really ment to engage your mind a lot more
Language is just another habit we have.
Change or personal change for our own betterment doesnt happen automatically, we must put effort into change. We can make an effort by first being mindful of our thoughts and actions.
Usually when we let change happen to ourselves itusually for the worse. Like how a glutton if he doesnt change will become changed into a fat fuck with hypertension and diabetes.

Medication help support people.
They arent ment to be the solution like they thought in the ol behaviorist days of the 50's and 60's .
Antidepressants are ment to give you enough energy and to numb the ahitty thoughts about yourself enough to get you out of bed and to your therapists office or your support group.
They realized that these things make us feel better . In that they reduce the "neurological" effects of our actions.
Yet it does nothing to solve the existential question itselfn it just prepares you for a journey in finding one.
If you are just taking a pill to cure your depression, the fact that you got raped when you were younger, ended up failing school, or dont have a girlfriend still exists and if you can't get to a place where you can talk about it and process your feelings you will kill yourself , in some way by smoking over eating drugs or straight up suicide.

go back to psuedo-Veeky Forums

A general problem is that people take the world or themselves to be flawed in some absolute sense. "My plans always fail."
"I am a total failure."

There's far more nuance in the world than that.

Are you autistic?