Don't you think the main character is a bit of a bitch?

>my waifu is not as pure as i imagined
this is what happens when you listen to women's feelings.

She's a classic youth character who has an inflated sense of purpose for themselves, but because of their judgmental nature and standards they are undermining all the things they want. It's sad, real, and not always pleasant.

oh meant to include that her depression and mental status is also a contributing factor to having herself stand in her way.

you didn't get the depression stuff, I guess. Didn't you?

oh here
>is also a contributing factor
more like the main cause. One point of fucking depression, is that you think it's something else until you flip or find yourself literally trashed.

Awareness of a depressive state is quite a pleb filter in this book, I guess.

This

I also second the thing about her being the female Holden.

I actually liked The Bell Jar. The protagonist is a cunt but gets what she deserves for being a cunt: weird shaved head and fucked up body from suicide attempt, also >tfw no bf. Let it be a lesson to other girls who would be cunts.

What's wrong with Holden in the first place.

(not the same person, but...)
Not really, inflated sense of purpose and judgemental standards have nothing at all to do with depression. The depression is only another undermining factor.

Answering your original question, I wouldn't say "bitch" but I remember thinking she was a very futile person at the beginning (which desu I felt changed throughout the book) and she sometimes acts "badly" throughout the book (for example, what you've mentioned regarding Joan). Still, I sympathized with the character in a sense that it was a troubled person going through a lot of hard shit with depression. The fact the she's flawed in some ways only adds to the honesty of the book and imo make it better/make me sympathize more with the character. (Not that I think you implied her being a "bitch" is something bad regarding the work itself, just general thoughts).

ariel and the colossus are ur-examples of confessional poetry and u can't pretend to have any understanding of the movement without having read them t b h

I could have written a better post. But I get the depression and near-schizophrenic personality of the MC and Plath. I am deeply sympathetic, and adore this book and her poetry. I just think Esther, at first, is mostly characterized by a self-centeredness that has more to do with her youthful vision of herself and her potential that becomes underminded by her having to leave New York, which is when depression takes the wheel. It's a descent, she isn't already erratic. It's like egotism that crashes hard with bleak disappointment that leads Esther to a very dark epoc of her life.
So if you ONLY see the depression, I think you're putting forth a shallow reading effort.

He's an arrogant child. That's not a terrible sin to commit, but it is a huge part of him.

>The fact the she's flawed in some ways only adds to the honesty of the book
Yeah, I can get this and I think it's great writing.

>Not really, inflated sense of purpose and judgemental standards have nothing at all to do with depression. The depression is only another undermining factor.
They don't. But it's not that that drive a person insane and make her to commit suicide. It's mental illness. Depression is the hidden main character of this book. She thinks and act badly (let's say) at times but that can't sum up in such a catastrophic way she does in the book. Her thinking in general is distorted, both in introspection and in perception of the external.

I think you are glorifying depression a little. People can behave absurdly without being manic depressives who won't, or can't face facts. Read more books, friend.

>So if you ONLY see the depression, I think you're putting forth a shallow reading effort.
You know, what is depression? What are its causes?
The point is that I consider depression widely: as an existential dilemma and a society driven illness, beside the mere neurotransmitters imbalance that manifests physiologically.
I don't only see the depression, I instead can see the depression at work way before it clearly manifests itself in the book.
It's opinions anyway, eh

>I think you are glorifying depression a little.
uh, not at all. I am horrified by it.
>People can behave absurdly without being manic depressives
Yes, of course, but it's not the case of this book. I wanted to discuss this book here, not having a general talk about every possible human condition.

You are grating. We very much see things similarly, and I don't know why you're coming on like in this down-talking way. Way to kill interest in discussing a book that I love, and a subject matter I feel is deeply pertinent to all of literature and so all of humankind.

The hell
You are perceiving that I'm not down talking you wtf srsly.
You're passive aggressive as fuck dude.

reminder that sylvia plath was an evil woman who used her sexuality and untouchable status as a woman socially to harm herself and other people. she is the model for women doing evil, dumb, awful things to hurt men and their family member for no reason other than wanting to feel independent, every women is interested in plath has a mental illness and all women like her deserve to die alone in convents.

I'm not being passive, if you think I am being aggressive. Maybe we're just both confused.
Anyway, I agree with you that depression is something more than the product of neurons firing off into grey parts of our psyche, it's a pervasive undercurrent which we all dip into every now and then, or are violently thrown into and out of quite often. I was getting the vibe you thought this book was about clynical depression more than that ubiquitious depression we both seem to perceive life to float upon. I think it's terrible that people think depression is a disease they're born with or contract, and that some people just never experience it. Because when they do experience it they are totally unprepared for it.

Can we just make peace desu?

Absolutely, my friend. My apologies.

I wouldn't say he's arrogant. He has opinions about people that are shaped by his own sadness, but it doesn't make him mean.
Even when he's thinking badly about someone it's usually because something about them makes him sad, not because he thinks he's better than them.

That's a nicer, more thoughtful way to look at it. I'd still say arrogant is applicable, but it's just a shortcut around all the stuff you mentioned. He's not unjustified, isn't mean and is not without a heart that is for sure.

You didn’t finish your last sentence. There’s supposed to be more words after the parenthesis that make the words before the parenthesis into a complete thought, with the bit in the parenthesis being an interjection that is somewhat related to said thought, and both digresses from the original point, while also informing it and adding a greater understanding and depth the the thought that wouldn’t exist without it. You just stopped mid sentence.

>Hey so, what's the deal with female authors killing themselves? Right? This guy knows what I'm talking about.

I couldn't read past her shitting on manlets at the beginning. Hit to close to home.

Yeah that was a bit harsh.
But I assume if you were writing honesty, you wouldn't be much kinder to, let's say, fat girls...

Kys is quite a proper writer's death.
I read few months ago that among all kind of artists, writers are the most prone to mental illnesses and suicide. Much more than say painters or musicians.

>you wouldn't be much kinder to, let's say, fat girls

Not that user, but there's a pretty clear difference between manlets and fat chicks—one is not under your control and the other is.

Yeah I know, I'm sure there're all kinds of theories for that. Pretty sure plenty of musicians have killed themselves though too.