I recently watched Mad Men beginning to end. I cannot believe how well written and nuanced it was. I honestly feel aghast at entertaining a career as a professional writer when I compare myself against the wit of a real production. There was just so much to it I don't even where or if I should begin with examples...I'm left here thinking, how can anyone think of all this in conceiving their story? And if it goes beyond said conception, how the fuck is that even possible? 7 seasons later everything comes full circle so perfectly, biting quips, masterful foils, lines that fit the situation but mean so much more in a grander scale...does anyone know of this despair?
I mean fuck, if a TV script is so much better than I anything I or most people can estimate their doing, what hope have we at writing a novel of substance?
Calm your tits bro, mad men is good but that’s also because of the setting. Thinking about it the fact that it was set in a time period where everything looked fine but was also on the verge of destruction perfectly fits the show. The ending was lackluster though
Camden Parker
>The ending was lackluster though Man, I can't agree with that at all.
Don's fake niece asks him what he's doing, they're not family, why is he trying to help her? And he tells her it gets easier if you just move forward, ignore the past. This perfectly encapsulates his entire character, in the end he was desperately throwing himself at people, the niece, his daughter, his wife, he was looking for an identity to belong to. What he should do. The hippies talk about that, the "shoulds" of life. And remember, he began his soul searching bumming around America in that giant ad agency office where he was de-individualized, made one of many. I could go on about it, there's so many tie ins that's not even half. But anyway, this is his narcissism, pretending to be who he thinks he should be (a beautiful irony for a man in advertising), finally cornered, he has nowhere left to go, no-one left he can pretend to be. And what happens in the last few moments? He meets his foil, an boring ugly fellow who feels he isn't loved - - while Don's problem all along was giving love despite having everything and attracting everyone. Does he resolve things with one of his classic but hollow speeches? No, the glib NY ad man is totally silent for nearly the whole latter end of the episode, instead the floodgates open, he "feels something" as the show echoed in earlier seasons, he accepts and is accepted.
I really mean it when I say I could go on. There's so much to say on it, because it said so much. Likes Jones suitor, his words narrated Don's situation, "when something's wrong it's always wrong", he has this wild agency about him, he cuts right to the heart of the matter, and doesn't linger with sentiment or delusion, he faces things. As Don now has to. And I loved how Joan told Peggy they need 2 names to make the agency real, and upon going it alone uses her own name twice (maiden+married name). Again, there's more, there's so much going on here it pisses me off. How could they have planned for all this? And if they didn't plan for it all, how did things line up so perfectly? It's great and it makes me angry.
William Gomez
mad men is terriblly midcult, but if this is serious, the creator/writer did a paris review interview, so that's for sure where you should start
Evan Garcia
the thing about tv is that it's not a writer but a room full of writers and people start with a junior position and get good by watching the veterans work. matt weiner worked on a bunch of shit you've never heard of before writing the pilot for mad men which did not get made at the time but landed him a job on the sopranos. go back to that pilot and see how unsubtle the writing is compared to the rest of the show: that's the result of weiner working under david chase for several years in between writing the pilot and actually making the show. if anything mad men shows you that you need to stop whining and work and you'll get better over time.
Brandon Hernandez
Thanks m8 this is some good reading
Ethan Moore
>I'm left here thinking, how can anyone think of all this in conceiving their story? It's usually one or two showrunners who oversee the big picture and the main plotlines and then there are dozens of writers who collaborate, share ideas, write and edit the dialogue and so on. Pic related for Mad Men.
Jace Perry
As others have said, television and movie scripts are usually collaborative efforts. Many of the writers probably are top-notch -- at least in the entertainment industry -- but you shouldn't make the mistake of thinking there's a single genius behind all of it.
Having said that, I understand your feel.
I've been a moderately successful freelance writer from when I started university until now. I earn enough to pay my rent and bills, stay afloat, and live more comfortably than the average student.
But whenever I read certain authors, I'm continuously struck not only by the clarity of their writing but by their skill of evoking certain emotions but including subtle detail and pieces of dialog.
Probably not a Veeky Forums-approved author, but I really, really appreciate Jhumpa Lahiri's short stories. She doesn't pull many tricks or lay down Renaissance prose, but she gets the nuances of everyday life and relationships like no other. Whenever I read her, I wonder how I could ever do half that.
Jason Scott
-people in holywood are dumb and never ever original
-mad men is a show for women, since it is has women who date men
-you won't stop being a bad person if you continue like this
Xavier Davis
>nuance
Does it bother anyone else when words get popular and everyone starts using them? "Cognitive" has had a similar surge recently. I get the impression of someone who wants to sound smart, but isn't actually smart enough to express themselves with original language. I similarly roll my eyes when someone uses 'data' outside of the context of research, or 'comical' when 'funny' could easily be substituted.
Camden Martin
>he doesn't think Mad Men is nuanced I remember being really impressed with this one episode when I realized the entire thing was a Kubrick homage, and almost all of that is inferred only through the way it was shot. It's full of artistic acumen and inventive flourishes. Maybe you lack the cognitive capacity to appreciate some language and instead need to discredit it.
Nathan Morgan
>muh soap opera pays homage to film history >muh fantasy saga references ancient myth >muh video game totally quotes philosophy
why do you fags always have to justify your dumb hobbies in this way? can't just watch your soap opera without these pretensions?
Mason Cruz
Disappointed that there are plebs dissing Mad Men. The showrunner said he was influenced by writers like Cheever and Carver + and it shows. If you don't like it you're a piece of shit that belongs elsewhere
Ian Rivera
Hey that’s like, your opinion man.
Ian Jackson
the point being made is that it's an expensive soap opera for pretentious midwits so the guy namedropping some writers in an interview - and your impression that what writers he can namedrop in an interview matters - only makes it worse. if you want to defend the show then defend the show, nobody cares that the guy who wrote it went to college.
Austin Johnson
It was a shortcut way to let dipsticks know its not a soap opera yet still you persist. Have you seen it? I'm glad I saw it at my age, if you're 20 you're not going to get a lot out of it.
Michael Torres
If you spent 8-10 hours working on a novel everyday for 8 years you’d be surprised with how much better it would turn out than you thought.
I’ve learned over time that people here tend to underestimate how much work goes into writing. They think Tolstoy or Melville just sat down and the sentences came out basically the same as in the complete novel, with maybe 2 or 3 drafts until they got the final product.
If you spent years writing the same novel, trying out different character perspectives and plot lines, reading chapters out loud to trusted friends and getting feedback, joining writing groups or reading books on story structure, and wrote the 50-100 drafts that some writers (and most of the best ones) do, you could probably come up with something pretty good.
It takes work.
Nathaniel Miller
Catcher in the rye took 15 years, that's also how Salinger likes his girls
Kevin Price
awful, awful posts. never come here again
Xavier Bennett
i'm 30 and i have seen it. the problem is that you're still trying to defend it without engaging with the criticism or even, honestly, the show itself. someone calls your show a soap opera and instead of talking about the show you inform us that the creator mentioned some writers. you seem to actually think that someone having read raymond carver means they couldn't possibly have written a soap opera. do you see how inane that is? it's not a shotcut, it's idiocy.
mad men is a soap opera because it's built like one. the structure of a soap is to have a permanent cast of characters that go through ups and downs in an infinitely extensible sequence so that the viewers can form imaginary emotional relationships with them. notice how the show was like twice as long than originally planned but they had no trouble filling that space. they could have made 10 more seasons because it's not a story, it doesn't have a point - it's a platform for virtual friendships and animosities. haha pete is so awkward! fuck you betty you're a shit mom! oh no don don't cheat on your new wife! notice how the user above, when gushing about the finale, does not discuss it as a work of filmmaking. he is really just telling you how interesting his imaginary friend don draper is. it's a soap opera. that's how they work.
you could argue it's a better executed soap opera than all the other shitty soaps that get sold now as the golden age of tv or whatever but you can't deny its basic structure and you sure as hell aren't going to do it by fawning over how well read some hollywood twat comes off of in interviews.
Thomas Anderson
>literally every single main character grows as a person and overcomes "their" problem throughout the show which is organically developed over time >being this retarded
Jose Thomas
I'd rather not write an essay for you about why I think it's a great show, k champ, you don't like it you're happy being a dunce, that's fine.
You could call any kind of TV drama or a lot of novels a soap opera, it's a pretty easy thing to say.
Isaac Taylor
>otice how the user above, when gushing about the finale, does not discuss it as a work of filmmaking. he is really just telling you how interesting his imaginary friend don draper is No, I don't notice that at all. In fact it's not mentioned once...
Chase Phillips
To add, the first draft of Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man was written at 22 and finally published at 34.
Gabriel Morris
tv shows have teams of writers who sit down and write and brainstorm 12 hours a day for months every season
Dylan Cooper
>criticizes viewers of the show on the basis that they dont critically engage with the show >doesn't engage with the show and his criticisms are fictitious quotes from the viewers of the show >30 years old and has the critical vocabulary of a 20 year old
Wyatt Adams
Anyone have a transcript for us poorfags who dont have a subscription?
Camden Moore
Just google it.
Ryder Bailey
y'all could easily prove that your engagement with the show goes beyond that of a bored housewife crying at her stories by simply writing articulately about the show. but all you can muster are these lame drive-by disses and "i could prove you wrong but i just don't want to". it's like as soon as you guys are let out of your circlejerk threads on /tv/ you really have nothing to say at all even about the things you are supposedly fans of.
Carter Roberts
Good post, user
Jack Lopez
...
Dominic Martin
he's right.
you cant even respond to that. your image is pretty ironic.
From the posters saying it's overrated crap, could they say shows they consider to be good?
Terrible. Pete wasn't the awkward character in the show out of the male bundle there. He was most satisfying side character as this user , who obviously watched the show, can affirm. The one awkward character there, Paul Kinsey, which I believe might of struck as normal or your own self image, was the awkward one and too had a fitting end himself.
Nicholas Turner
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. It's pretty silly to expect someone to put effort in responding to a clearly effortless and moronic post, none of what you said is true, the descriptions of the characters aren't even accurate.
Brody Rivera
simpsons and xavier renegade angel are better
Chase Moore
I love Mad Men but how can you deny it isn't a soap/drama?
Literally everything that happens, every character and plotline and sub-plotline, is all out the soap textbook.
That doesn't necessarily make it bad, but to deny its most basic structure proves you are reading falsely into the show.
Why else would there be seemingly infinite subplots about romance, faith, coming of age, societal issues, etc.
It's not so much social commentary as it is soap plotlines.
Noah Green
it is everything you said but the genius of the show was that, if you cared to, there was much more depth to be found. if you want to argue about film making aspects, could you suggest a more immersive film or television series that so successfully represented a specific era?
David Mitchell
It's not meant to "represent" anything. The setting is merely a backdrop for the exploration of character.
Aaron Gray
Consider Mad Men took 8-9 years of development. Though Matthew Weiner says he had an idea of where he wanted the story to go, Mad Men wasn't all planned from the start, it was developed as it went on. And Weiner wasn't alone, he worked with writers he knew and trusted and shared his vision.
Writing is hard, desu, but making a TV show is a different beast. Production design, cinematography, casting, editing, soundtrack, it all has to be perfect, not just the writing.
As far as writing is concerned, keep writing. Even the giants who seemingly cranked out masterpieces had to work had to get there. Pic related, early draft of Blood Meridian
Cooper Jenkins
>written by mostly women >female characters start out trying to make it in a man's world and be independent >achieve success but aren't happy >find a man and thus happiness at conclusion
makes one think just a bit
Alexander Lee
>doesn't describe a single character really activates my almonds
Christian Perry
how do you know this stuff
Angel Phillips
So... just like Shakespeare?
Camden Richardson
your reading comprehension is off, but since you went there, i have to say you must be tone deaf. the 60s is one of the most thematically rich 'backdrops' available.
Jacob Rodriguez
user I relate so much, with your admiration for the show and your anger when witnessing great art. Everybody looks at me weird when I'm angry after watching a good movie, show, rereading a book, or leaving a museum, it forces me to confront my inferiority but is also an great motivater driving me to surpass them
Oliver Nelson
Not him, but I'm not even trying to surpass them I'd be happy with just being as great, with just being worthy them.
Matthew Bailey
Harry Crane was the awkward one. He had a million scenes where he awkwardly bumbled around the others and tried to be buddies with them, while they all hated him and shut all his attempts down.
Elijah Ramirez
how do I into freelance writing?
Joshua Nelson
I just do my own thing. I write the books I want to write, I offer my writing abilities via ghostwriting, and I also write custom erotica. All in all, so far, I'm averaging something like $80-100 a month which if nothing else is a nice bit of supplementary income. I've been writing for about a year and a half, learning how to utilize the internet to accomplish entrepreneurial ventures. It's a truly fascinating process, and I'm enjoying it.
