*destroys your will to live*

>'gains'
There are no perceptible gains in a BNW world, there is nothing, your life if nothing and stands on no point ever.

>muh drugs
>muh escapism
>muh promiscuity
etc.

I think you're so taken with the similarities that you're ignoring the vast, glaring differences, like the not unimportant introduction to the society, which is a description of the industrial birthing process, overseen by people with lupus.

t. untermensch

i destroyed your moms will to live, if you know what i mean

Safety is a spook.

I meant what most people would gain in comparison to our current world.

People who use Nietzschean terminology live lives just as banal as the rest, it's just a layer of sophistry. Might as well read Jordan Peterson and mumble about slaying the dragon while you mow the lawn.

t. person who has been so safe all his life that he takes it for granted.

Westerners haven't had war in their lands for a long time which leads to domesticated soft people wielding edgy language and paying lip service to things they have no experience with.

You're already living in BNW for the most part.

>comparison to our current world.
I know. I'm saying that gain would be nothing because you are entering nothing. It is a world of no introspection or meaning, you would be an animal.

kek
>cleaning room
>"MUM I SLAYED THE DRAGON"
>"oh ok boi thats great, now go and help your dad with the dishes"
>"FUCK YEAH saving him from the belly of the whale"
>"hun, dont go to your psychiatrist tomorrow, we will cancel the appointments."

Art and entertainment ist what drives us forward as a species, especially if we get rid of poverty, war and disease.
The BNW would crumble.

t. person who has never seen a crime committed

There's been a swarm of people lately mentioning this book here not realizing why it sucks. Protip, it has NOTHING to do with it being an authoritarian civilization, nor does it have to do with the soma-induced state of welfare and blissful ignorance.

The true problem with Huxley's BNW civilization is that not only they are immensely idealized (something we can ignore for the sake of arguing in principles), they are absolutely impervious to change and utterly incapable of adapting to external pressure. Just look at the damage and scarring a single savage (a refugee?) has done from "infiltrating" into their society and blending among their ranks.

A society like that would fade away and/or go into a state of crisis during the first period of resource drought, during the first contact with any other civilization. Engineering highly specialized humans is a recipe for disaster, or rather, a recipe for failing to stand up to disasters.

Furthermore, this is a safe and happy world for the ignorant, the deltas and gammas and betas. However, for the high castes (as Huxley painfully makes clear in the last chapters' exposition) this world is a management nightmare they can't ever wake up from. In maintaining order for their society they must contain any and all external stimuli and even contain internal attempts at revolution (realistically, even things like counter-intuitively repressing technological advancement must be done). This leads to the sad "dystopian" state of this brave new world: at once, if you are the one who is responsible to think about the situation of that society, you are also the miserable one responsible to heroically fight back entropy (literally and socially) from eroding the order you have established.

TL;DR goddamnit you pleb, even a Taleb-tier fag can see why a society that is so fragile to change and external forces would ultimately suck your dad's sweaty balls.

That's like saying painkillers are useless because all you do is get rid of something negative and are not rewarded with something positive.

The removal of the negative thing is a reward is an improvement in itself.

You're removing more than just the 'negative'. You're basically throwing out self-consciousnesses by making a numb hedonistic world, and by doing that you remove any possible sense of higher meaning or wider-comprehension. Of course, you may think self-consciousness is a negative.

didnt read the book, but did you just say
>suffering is meaning

thats not necessarily true in my estimation.

Most people who consider it dystopian do not think so for the reasons you mentioned though, they think it's dystopian because an adventurous passionate individualist backpacker like them could never be happy in such a conformist consumerist society.

That said, not genociding the savages and even letting them run around in society seems a forced plot device to me. It's not a necessary weakness of that society but an arbitrary one.

But you make a good point, the fragility of a society that requires stasis to that degree is a good argument against it. As for your second point, I guess that's a heavy is the head that wears the crown type of deal that is a necessity of any society. But a world with a kind of sad realpolitik behind the scenes without war, disease and poverty is still preferable for most people to a world that has all these extra troubles in addition to the sad realpolitik behind the scenes.

Lost self-consciousness isn't problematic if there is no one to mourn its absence though.

You're misunderstanding me. By making BNW you may be getting rid of suffering but you're concurrently getting rid of the capacity for higher meaning. I never said meaning IS suffering.
It's problematic in that what was existent and possibly more important than gratification is now purposely rendered unobtainable.

t
There's no artistry in BNW. No individuality. No ambition. They literally banned Shakespeare. Go troll somewhere else.

don't you think in vitro fertilization, surrogate mothers, gay couples, transgenderism is leading to similar ends?

man cannot live off bread alone friendo

No. We're likely centuries away from having biotech at the level of BNW, and by then society will have changed drastically, as it always does over a great span of time.

That's the point. You're so comfortable that you can wax poetically about art and individuality in your dry and warm first world dwelling with a fridge full of food and endless entertainment

Some African in a swamp dying of malaria and starvation doesn't covet your Shakespeare but the security, stability and luxury you already have and the BNW society offers to everyone within it.

Loftiness is a luxury.

Consider all the other important things once existent but not anymore that were more important than the things you consider worthwhile now.

You can't, because you can't even imagine them, and thereby you don't suffer from their absence.

BNW offers most things people desire besides the necessities: Companionship, a sense of belonging, a goal and a part to play within society and a lot of entertainment.

does the development of cloned monkeys change your thesis? imo the BNW society is very possible and some people (communists) would lovingly accept this kind of society.
news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/monkey-clones-dolly-sheep-china-medicine-science/

don't forget CRISPR lads

but wouldn't it be discovered that all these aspects of the BNW society are engineered? wouldn't a real human being rebel against that?

Most people in the our world live without bread.

>but wouldn't it be discovered that all these aspects of the BNW society are engineered?
I'd say engineering them to the degree that cognitive dissonance is minimised because people are tailor made for their position in society leads to far less rebellion than we have now. We already live in a globalised consumer society, the difference is that most of us don't like our position in it.

It's like advertising. It's very annoying when you get spammed with annoying ads you're not interested in, but when you get to the point of expertise where you get shown ads of stuff that you actually are sincerely interested in and even happy to be made aware of the experience is often a positive one.

Having your needs met is the most important part. Whether that happens by adjusting what's on offer to the person or the person to what's on offer is of little relevance.

Personally I hate the idea of living in a globalized society and hate all my information being documented and available to whoever wants to take the time and effort to find it. I also hate the idea of living as a dog just happily waiting for my next meal.. I have a hard time believing I'm the only person that would rebel against any utopian society.

ok so you can take those people and put them in a bio-dome, i'll take my non-vegetative mind elsewhere

Okay, but so far as my current state of being is I can decide that BNW is not preferable and that the loss is too much, and the purposeful destruction of such senses is amoral, and since you seem to be utilitarian I don't think you can say with certainty that such an action will lead to the greatest pleasure at the end either, unless your only conception of pleasure is physical hedonism.

So? I CAN wax poetically about art and individuality in my dry and warm first world dwelling, unlike the starving African in the swamp, but do you know what he can't do? He can't leverage all of his country's privileges to maddening extents til he presses onto the cusp of self-destruction; until material luxury is so far in the rearview mirror in chasing education, performance and excellence through competence that life seems like a first-world nose-dive; and yet, to do such would be to mirror the countless minds that have revolutionized human civilization. You see pleb, the true luxury afforded us in the first-world as it is is not the material luxury or comfort or security, but the time and opportunity these things allow the ambitious mind; the one willing to examine all available resources and begin to build a piece of tomorrow out of sheer obsessiveness. That ambition has to be learned and fought for, but no doubt is a privilege unique to a person of my background, who's had access to an extended education as well as a boundless amount of texts that would have been otherwise banned and largely destroyed in Huxley's dystopia. Huxley even relents in affronting that point, as he indicates by offering the Savage a position as a Controller; the leaders of the society were the hungry and educated; they contributed direction.

So yeah I don't see what you're getting at.

>No man can be happy until he submits to mediocrity, puts his hopes second to the whims of the marketplace, and allows himself to be farmed for revenue and labor like common cattle
You, unlike most people, were given the opportunity to escape the system and you failed catastrophically. You willingly chose to be managed into an effeminate brown obese animal in exchange for Netflix and social approval. Maybe you didn't have any higher calling to abandon in the first place, probably you are just another one of the billions of insignificant flecks of human material stuck between now and death, but your pride and satisfaction in your sloth and weakness and failure is repulsive.

You are not a human being. You are not an individual. You are thoughtless organic matter that exists to get fat, shit, fuck, and yes, work. If you truly value your status as an insentient economic unit you will kill yourself at age 60, just before you can collect a pension and thus avoid inconveniencing the firm you've chosen to worship in place of God.

this guy literally wants to be a robot

fuck off retard
you have no idea what it means to be human

Luxury is irrelevant. Your resentment and envy for others, your petty evil and hatred, doesn't make the lives of those you lust over more meaningful or worthwhile. Stop being such a nasty little insect

Jokes on you I love SOMA

>(communists)
>implying genetic tech isn't currently being developed and shilled by "it's okay to buy a baby" neoneoliberals
>implying the Brave New World isn't literally a capitalist utopia pushed to the far far end of reasoning

If you missed the point this much it's hopeless.

>communists would accept a biological caste system
>the Chinese won't be the first to use genetech and won't use it to make themselves into seven foot tall Aryans

>Okay, but so far as my current state of being is I can decide that BNW is not preferable and that the loss is too much
Fair enough, but my original point was that is the case because you're one of the select few why can afford that choice because your current life is already close enough to the BNW level of security and luxury.

He said, solving another captcha for Google in his botnet browser, killing time being entertained by the internet between meals. :^)

A lot of the ingredients for BNW are already present in our society and most of us aren't exactly rebelling yet. We're gradually sliding into it.

A boy with that kind of confidence and sense of achievement could really start a positive feedback look for developing constructive habits towards future success. That kid is fucking going places...

>positive feedback look

Plot twist: The boy is 37 years old.

*destroys your will to read* is more like it

blackpill me on captchas, i know you are being farmed just like tindr and other apps do for clicks and swipes, but what exactly are you doing when mindlessly filling out captchas? what does google use that info/interaction for? im curious

Don't worry. The russians are on their way.

>Every time our CAPTCHAs are solved, that human effort helps digitize text, annotate images, and build machine learning datasets. This in turn helps preserve books, improve maps, and solve hard AI problems.

So basically you're

>turning old books into e-books
>giving birth to the AI God that will kill us all

Huxley went in the right direction, compared with Orwell. But even he didn't go nearly far enough. There is no world controller, nobody at the driver seat. At best, there are some who like to think they are. But not even the most esoteric /pol/tard would claim that the Jews are in such a position. In truth, it is much more frightening this way.

>AI God
>edge detection in a neural network
Fucking pseuds.

edge detected

epsilion minus semi-moron detected

>grug love no eat and cold and pain because meaning

reservation savage detected

What if i want this pleasure for myself while everyone else still struggles with a regular lifestyle?

>unironically being this retarded

>everyone has his place in society and accepts their own place and that of others
They are indoctrinated into accepting it tho.

>shared values
Insofar as cummies is a value

I can't believe I share a board about literature with someone who thinks like this.

What you want is the alpha lifestyle, but you do realize you're an epsilon, right? The absence of a feeling of revolt because of brain damage and hard drugs does not equate comfort or happiness.

Now that's what I call brainlet

I like how you came full circle, you used to agree with all the anons that are dissing you but you are now approaching it from a realist resignated point of view. I like you although I rather go down against the shitty system along with all these anons you fucking faggot

I live but only ironically.

This

Literally a utopia,

If you are one of the few people who are dissatisfied you are allowed to leave and live with some other special snowflakes consequence free.

>If you missed the point this much it's hopeless
Communists would happily do it too. One of the main aims of communism is to change man's nature, to fill the gap caused by the destruction of religion.

No

If communists could reduce all men down to the same level and then rebuild, they would. They have done it with religion and they have done it with culture and tradition.
As long as nature goes unchallenged there will always be strong people, weak people, beautiful people, ugly people, unhealthy people and so on.

>submits to marxist megawomb to produce race of humans who only need soy to survive

*destroys and interrupts your reading as you are getting into it by changing character and then changing again a paragraph later*

I agree

When I first read it I agreed with John but later on I realized Mr bad guy has a point.

Brave New World is the exact opposite of how a communist society would look like

>The true problem with Huxley's BNW civilization is that not only they are immensely idealized (something we can ignore for the sake of arguing in principles),
They've been genetically winnowed for centuries.

>they are absolutely impervious to change and utterly incapable of adapting to external pressure.
Yes, as intended.

>Just look at the damage and scarring a single savage (a refugee?)
What damage, exactly? Two exiled, another one disgraced, one woman beaten to death and a minor civil disturbance? Truly, the foundations of their very society were shocked to the core.

>has done from "infiltrating" into their society
He didn't infiltrate a fucking thing.

>and blending among their ranks.
The fact that he didn't was the central fucking conflict of the book.

>A society like that would fade away and/or go into a state of crisis during the first period of resource drought,
Which don't exist because of the careful management of both population levels and natural resources.

during the first contact with any other civilization.
There are none.

>Engineering highly specialized humans is a recipe for disaster, or rather, a recipe for failing to stand up to disasters.
Again: what disaster? It would have to be an extinction-level event and the odds of humanity surviving one of those at any state are pretty much the same.

>Furthermore, this is a safe and happy world for the ignorant, the deltas and gammas and betas. However, for the high castes (as Huxley painfully makes clear in the last chapters' exposition) this world is a management nightmare they can't ever wake up from.
The higher castes are only ever even vaguely dissatisfied when they're misfits or subjected to hardship for whatever reason and even then the vast majority medicate through it and their conditioning barely even equips them to suffer as we know it.

>In maintaining order for their society they must contain any and all external stimuli
No, the stimuli are mollified. People deal with minor dissatisfaction by taking soma and drowning in pussy until they stop caring.

>and even contain internal attempts at revolution
What revolutions?

>(realistically, even things like counter-intuitively repressing technological advancement must be done).
They do do this, explicitly.

>This leads to the sad "dystopian" state of this brave new world: at once, if you are the one who is responsible to think about the situation of that society, you are also the miserable one responsible to heroically fight back entropy (literally and socially) from eroding the order you have established.
Which is why their society is organized around instant and non-stop gratification.

>TL;DR goddamnit you pleb, even a Taleb-tier fag can see why a society that is so fragile to change and external forces would ultimately suck your dad's sweaty balls.
At this point I don't think you even read the goddamn book.

are you retarded?