Is it just me, or are the stoics a little overrated and rather simple?

that's not Stoic at all, you're thinking of utilitarianism.

Its pretty much stoicism except instead of the third panel he says "Durr it happened so no reason to be upset"

“Choose not to be harmed — and you won’t feel harmed. Don’t feel harmed — and you haven’t been.” – Marcus Aurelius

"Today I escaped from anxiety. Or no, I discarded it, because it was within me, in my own perceptions—not outside."
- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

anxiety, rage, fear are warnings, they are functinal emotions, you cant brainwash yourself to be this inmutable zombie unaffected by anything. why not kys instead? same thing.

Its literally the coping mechanism of an infamous cuckold
"Y-you might have fucked my wife but you didn't hurt me if I decide I didn't want her anyway!"

What about mixing stoicism... with epicurism?

the justification for not being upset is very different. the Stoic doesn't consider the thief's happiness as a positive thing even for the thief, since it is not a virtuous happiness. the Stoic is also able to take practical steps toward regaining his bike or prosecuting the thief, since those are things that are in his control.

it's also perfectly true that there's no reason to be upset that your bike was stolen. anything that you can do to change things, you can do better calmly. everything else has happened regardless and won't change no matter how upset you get.

!

But sometimes they are not.
Why should I be punished twice because someone stole my bike, what do I gain by getting upset over it?
Not everyone reacts with uncontrollable anger to a stolen bike, that means that it's truly within your control to react calmly.
Obviously you can never act like a stoic sage, but you can aspire to act like one.
In doing so, you'll lead a much calmer, more satisfying life.

>that bird
Nightmarish creature, fuck that.

Don't be edgy and respect your grandparents, kid

>since it is not a virtuous happiness

Says who?

Holy shit the straw man.
Does anyone in Veeky Forums even reads at all?

>the state is fucking us hard, lets take action, lets overthrow those fuckers
>wow dude just calm and chill, its all in ur head bro ;)
the perfect ideology for our current """democracies""".

>it's also perfectly true that there's no reason to be upset that your bike was stolen. anything that you can do to change things, you can do better calmly. everything else has happened regardless and won't change no matter how upset you get.

Absolutely retarded and shows a brainlet cuck mentality that doesn't understand the basics of how the human mind works.
If you're angry about something you're more likely to think of solutions for it and more likely to take necassry actions towards those solutions

Hence how stoics end up as cucks when they just allow people to walk all over them because muh calm reason is a pit

>anxiety, rage, fear are warnings, they are functional emotions
warnings are only useful until they have brought attention to the actual danger. a fire alarm is a warning too, but once it has fulfilled its warning function, you switch it off as soon as possible. it doesn't help to actually put out the fire. it's the same with anxiety. Stoicism teaches you to deal with anxiety, rage, fear etc. more effectively, it does not teach you to be oblivious to the things they warn you about.

Retard, stoicism isn't passivity.
If someone is fucking you and its within your control to stop it, it is stoic to do so.
You have reddit tier understanding of philosophy.

pic related is stoicisms endgame.

to naturalize the unnatural, to block any human expression towards claiming whats yours, fair, and of common sense. its "all in your head", so you ought to fix YOUR emotions, dont fix the world and its insanity, no, we cant allow you to think in those terms.

>Retard, stoicism isn't passivity.

Not in theory but in practice it totally is

Maybe for you.

>my own brand of stoicism isnt cucked!
then its not stoicism you fag, its just being level headed.

You’re confusing passive utilitarianism with stoicism. Here are the differences
>passive utilitarianism: my bike got stolen recently. By examining my happiness, my use of the bike, and the thiefs desire, clearly he wanted it more than me. The total happiness increased, and the theft is… whatever
>Stoicism: my bike got stolen recently. Throwing a fit won’t get it back, getting angry won’t get it back. I will not get emotional, and will either find my original bike or get a new bike.

No anyone. The human mind evolved emotions for a reason, we're not perfect machines capable to analyzing a situation perfectly and developing a clear 100% objective solution. We have gut instincts and emotions to make up through intuitive reasoning what our conscious mind can never do

In one way or another a stoic will always be a cuck because he denies the fiery spirit that made life possible to begin with

You are retarded brainlet shitposter that talks about things he knows nothing about.

>If you're angry about something you're more likely to think of solutions for it and more likely to take necessary actions towards those solutions
I tend to find that the decisions I make while angry, anxious or afraid are more irrational and unproductive than those I make while calm and collected but perhaps things work differently for you.

But if anger helps you because you find solutions, what's the point in being angry about things you can't change? There is no solution to those things, you're submitting yourself constantly, for no good reason, to the unpleasant emotional warning signals of a problem that you already know about.

>I tend to find that the decisions I make while angry, anxious or afraid are more irrational and unproductive

Yeah because you're a stupid cuck. Sucks to be you

Marcus Aurelius was waging war for his entire life as emperor. Doesn't sound very passive to me.

>what's the point in being angry about things you can't change?

How do you know you can't change them if you don't let yourself be angry?
Again cuck logic, a stoic gives up and declares things impossible where better men fight on

>I will not get emotional, and will either find my original bike or get a new bike.
do you fucks know anything about human beings?

>i will not get emotional
sure you faggot, emotion is what prompts action. the intensity of pursuing the bike (calling the cops and filling paperwork, wasting days on it) is directly related to the feelings that push you to it. you need anger to push the cops to do their job and to call them incessantly. if there are no feelings, you wont pursue back the bike, as simple as that, you simp.

If he was any good at it then he wouldn't have to have been at war his entire life

but he wanted his proles to be passive. to submit to the emperor with a willing attitude. funny how it works, huh?

Says the kid who got his bike stolen. Which is actually all that's needed.

You clearly have a false impression of Stoicism.
Stoics claim that virtue is the sole good, if the world isn't virtous and need to be "fixed" the stoics would advocate for it.
Is Marcus Aurelius, a roman emperor that fought many wars through his lifetime, a fucking passive cuck?

It's not in theory nor in practice.
That kind of argumentation is so fucking retarded.
Nature gave us all sorts of fucked up shit that is totally useless today, if something is being a proven negative for you, why the fuck would you not work towards eliminating it, making you a more complete rational being?
Would you oppose an appendectomy because
>"Hurr N-Nature g...gave us an appendix for a reason! im not a cuck!
Pathetic.

This, at the very least the anger will prompt you to be more attentive in future

So crying and screaming is how you get what you want? How does that work?

>it's another teenage autist that hates order, responsibility, and virtue spergs out at a strawman of the stoics thread.

>if something is being a proven negative for you, why the fuck would you not work towards eliminating it

Because in life we have a billion and one different things to think about, there's no "complete rational" way to prioritize them

You don't need to be angry to do all of that, can't you brainlets see that?
You can do all of that while remaining calm, that is clearly preferable.

lmao are you actually a woman? Because you sound like my sister

lmao you are the one closer to a woman.
>OH NO MY BIKE IS STOLEN :(( IM SO SAD :(( I CAN'T WAIT TO TELL STACY ABOUT HOW SAD I AM :(( WHY DID THIS HAPPEN TO ME OH NO :((

without emotion, there is no action.

Because we don't live in your autistic dream world where the perfect solution to everything is just a maths equation away
We live in the world where billions of years of history instilled in us certain thought processes that ensured we survive and reproduce

If the world were run by stoics we'd still be in the dark ages. It's easy to look at emotions and think that they're a destructive force but the reality is they're one of the most effective catalysts of change. The only difference between a stoic and a hedonist is that the stoic is less productive.

This, emotion is fundamentally desire. Without desire there is no action and without action you let yourself be cucked

stoics = low energy cucks with low energy emotions, small emotioned faggots, you think the world is the same as you passionless doormats

(You)
Stop being an autistic faggot and instead of pulling absolutely retraded strawmans of stoicism actually go ahead and read epictetus.

Stoicism isn't about being emotionless, you don't understand Stoicism.

Then whats it about, gormless platitudes?
Because thats all thats left when you remove its opposition to emotions

A real stoic would never care that other people don't understand stoicism.
Sorry guys you're out, turn in your chastity belts.

there are whole symphonies that were written motivated only by consuming anger because of a cuck affair of the whore wife of the composer. he wrote it becuase of his anger. you supress the anger, you dont get the music, or you get some unspired shit. all the best things in this world are born of overflown emotions.

It's not opposition to emotions. You can feel emotions just as strongly. It's not allowing those emotions to control your actions.

this. it reminds me of the occult thread with level 60 master magicians calling each other samefag and pleb and getting all out of shape in butthurt for a typo or shit like that, so much for the elite illuminated individuals.

Ridiculous proposition, if you feel an emotion then its influencing your actions by definition

>How do you know you can't change them if you don't let yourself be angry?
complete non sequitur. anger alerts you to a problem, it does not tell you whether or not there is a solution.

if your house was robbed, and when you got back your burglar alarm was going off, you wouldn't leave the alarm going, claiming that it helped you to think. you wouldn't say "burglar alarms have a function, which is to let me know I have been burgled. if I switch the alarm off, I am just pretending that the burglary didn't happen." but apparently with anger you do think this way.

>a stoic gives up and declares things impossible where better men fight on
but many things are impossible to change, including but not limited to every single thing that has ever happened in the past. if the better man wants to waste his time fighting on when things actually are impossible to change, he's welcome to.

so presumably you think road rage is the best way to drive and murders of passion are the best way to solve relationship issues. are you a sociopath? be honest please.

Stoicism isn't opposed to emotions you brainlet, obviously being happy is not bad, do you have anything else to contribute other than strawmans?
Did you read any Stoic literature at all?
Who said I was a Stoic?
Secondly, even if I was a Stoic, i would be right in caring about you understanding Stoicism.
Virtue is the sole good, if i can make you more virtuous then it's definitely worth my time.

>anger alerts you to a problem, it does not tell you whether or not there is a solution.

No it does not merely alert you to a problem it fixates you on it. It encourages a level of intense thought and energy. Hence it does directly lead to you potentially finding a solution

if you take an observer position regarding your emotions, thats called disociation, its what torture victims do when raped, they just drift out to a safe zone where they arent controlled by unending pain. of course, these individuals get fucked forever and can never emote or sometimes even function after all that process, because its a psychotic ability used only in extreme cases, not as a rule of life, otherwise youre castrating your own balls daily.

something something perennial philosophy

>obviously being happy is not bad

What if you're happy about getting cucked?

Influence != control.

There is no distinction, all control is a degree of influence and all influence is a degree of control

totally.

then you can call yourself a proper stoic.

Being happy isn't the pursuit of a Stoic.
Stoics care only about Virtue, is getting cucked virtuous?
Well you're being autistic about terminology.
I can get angry over something yet still not let that anger control what I decide to do.

>Hence it does directly lead to you potentially finding a solution
and if there is no solution to your problem, then why stay angry?

it's also strange to me that you can't conceive of taking an obvious action, like calling the police to file a report, without being angry. that's not a difficult solution to find, to be honest, it's not like it requires intense thought. why can't you just calmly go through the necessary procedure without feeling angry?

Seems like a bit of a semantics argument to me
Influence is some form of control without a doubt but when you're talking about something very abstract that exists within the mind like emotion the line becomes highly blurred. Assuming that there is a meaningful distinction then there is also the very debatable presupposition that emotions ever "control" anyone rather than influencing them.

Jesus Christ you faggots!
Takeaway from this thread: Don't reply to people who use the term cuck unironically

you just need a single spark of an intese emotion and all that follows afterwards will be influenced (aka. predicated) by that emotion. its a domino effect you cant substract from.

t. cuck.

>virtuous happiness
from whence? the greco-roman gods you absolute fucking brainlet?

>prosecuting the thief
>no reason to be upset
if you aren't upset why would you prosecute him, your full of shit and you know it, there is nothing logical about your response. Not overreacting is perfectly fine, but to act like there isn't a powerful emotional response is bullshit.

desu I think stoicucks completely misread meditations, (although epicurus was a complete brainlet and he is granddaddy of them all)

It's totally semantics.
I meant that in certain events you are obviously going to be affected by emotions, but that they ought not to absolutely control you and dictate your way of action.
your rational mind should not be overtaken by passion if you wish to lead a good life.

>(although epicurus was a complete brainlet and he is granddaddy of them all)
lmao is this bait?
>Veeky Forums 2k18

You're an absolute pseud.
I can wish for him to be prosecuted and still not be upset by theft.
If he goes unprosecuted he may steal again, and theft is not virtuous.

>cuck, short for cuckservative
Pissed me off a lil desu

>stoicism

johnsonessays.com/the-rambler/stoicism-necessity-patience/

>if you aren't upset why would you prosecute him
because you are taking an action to ensure the consistent prosecution of bike thieves, which will reduce the likelihood that your bike is stolen again - the prosecution of the bike thief is something that you can control and thus something that a Stoic cannot ignore. you can support and pursue punishment for criminals without being constantly furious about their existence and actions.

i hate reddit so much and /pol/ too

t. a cuck so cucked that even his own emotions aren't faithful to him.

just brush it away bro, dont let that feeling act as a reminder youre under psychological attack 24/7, dumb emotions amirite?

Action still precedes thought, at least at a conversational level. And having morals makes us really good animals, but we don't get to escape being animals

>dont let that feeling act as a reminder youre under psychological attack 24/7
"let's stay outside the bomb shelter, if I go down there I'll forget there's a war on! Anyway the constant explosions help me think."

Because your grandad is right. Read Taleb.

>0 addresses to the first and more important point
If you can't even distinguish what is virtuous and not-virtuous you don't even have an argument to defend you fucking retards.

if you aren't emotionally invested in your and other peoples bikes being stolen you have no motivation to pursue change, whether in your control or not, you faggots are fixated on a premise that is so far derived you can't even comprehend where it originates

>in my control
>out of my control
>hur dur if its out of my control im not even mad bro, no ur mad, im totally not mad

Bruh i'm not emotionally invested in a random person in China, yet, if I had the choice between pressing a button that saves his life, i'll press it.
Woah, actions caused without emotional investment, crazy.

>and if there is no solution to your problem, then why stay angry?

Because why the fuck not, the world must know my scorn

>Woah, actions caused without emotional investment, crazy.
empathy, which is not directed towards particular individuals that you know, but to the concept of the human being, which you value. one can have emotional attachment to values, in fact, thats the source of all intense emotions, all emotions that can survive hours and days and be still strong, are held by values.

you faggots dont know shit.

>if you aren't emotionally invested in your and other peoples bikes being stolen you have no motivation to pursue change
you can be emotionally invested without that emotion being an unpleasant one such as anger. pursuing change by prosecuting the thief will reduce the number of times in the future that bikes in general are stolen, which itself is a virtue and worth pursuing, and also will decrease your likelihood of experiencing bike theft in the future, which is a practical step toward improving your life.

I still don't understand your assertion that anger is the only possible way to make positive changes. it's contradicted by even brief observation of people in general, who often do totally counterproductive things due to anger, anxiety or fear, and equally often make good, productive decisions calmly.

>unpleasant one such as anger.
t.soymaster.

anger is a very enjoyable emotion. its energizing and powerful.

parody

>and if there is no solution to your problem, then why keep punching a brick wall?

Because why the fuck not, the wall must know my scorn

bruh jesus died for ur sins how u talk all thhat shit nigga