Share your most contrarian literary opinions

Dostoevskij is severely overrated.

fiction is a waste of time. you should only read non-fiction

Veeky Forumss definition of genre fiction is absurd.

I'm not American but most of the literature I read is American and I hate myself for it but I can't stop because there is so much and the selection is so diverse it's impossible to avoid it.

If I just want knowledge about a novel or from a textbook, I’ll just google it. Reading them is just a waste of time when the synopsis is online for free, quick and easy.

A synopsis is not written by the writer so therefore you are actually just reading someone's interpretation of what it is without any of the detail that forms the story.

I'm from Africa and I think the colonial european authors are better than the postcolonial native ones.

I truly believe Moby Dick is the most overrated book of all time.

This isn't contrarian to anyone but students in American colleges

The Catcher in The Rye is not in any way interesting.
Reading should be fun. Genre fiction is okay.

Casual non-fiction is a waste of time.
You should only read on topics where you have an education. Most non-fiction you read should be academic papers or textbooks.

How is it not interesting?

Death of the Author is just a back-pocket excuse for people who get their interpretations of books wrong.

Not saying you can't interpret it your own way (it's still art), but if the author has said what it means, and the book is very clearly stating a certain message then you can't just eschew it because you had a different opinion.

Most of the classics are now boring and just plain out-dated due to modern pop culture over-using and ruining their tropes and characters.

The gulag archipielago is boring as fuck

People who can't appreciate Fitzgerald have no business discussing literature.

I disagree. Just because an author intended to convey a message doesn’t mean that that message was conveyed. And the book ”clearly stating that message” is pretty vague. Plus different interpretations just makes for more fun in my opinion, even if they’re ”heart of darkness is actually about gay sex”-tier.

Writing for money is more degrading than prostitution.

Greek mythology is overrated.

I enjoy heroic couplet and would purchase modern epics in it.

Silly user.

The Death of the Author is not about excusing incorrect interpretations, it is about literary critics trying to grab more power for themselves.

I dunno. This seems like a very common opinion among artistic types.

To their detriment, really. To really go hard for a career in writing you really need to treat writing like a business.

Otherwise - I guess - enjoy squeezing in writing after your 9-5 job.

Or maybe writing should only be done by the independently wealthy.

>XY is a waste of time
>posts on a Moldovan ostirch breeding forum

Anway you are missing my point. Writing should not become a career. There should be no such thing as a publishing industry. I would say literature should resemble folk song traditions; evolving only among the people who enjoy it without mercenary or academic intent; the values which define literature have long been bourgeois values, writers like DH Lawrence knew this, but he was just a failed normie so to speak; I think the develoment of literary activity that is cooperative and based purely on idiosyncratic aesthetics (something like Renga) would be great. Essentially literature has been whored out, and that is why we have this perennial desire to renovate (modernism, postmodernism, feminism, etc.) But unfortunately it cannot be changed by staying essentially the same. Writing must be taken by force from the professors and pimps.

It came so much later, of course it had to imitate western forms. I agree that it is its own style, as well, but if it imitates western literature, and it's not from the east, what is it that makes it non-western?

you're limiting yourself, pleb

I can tell none of you studied at any kind of tertiary institution.

Ow

why is such a soulless and cynical opinion so common?

it's called not mindlessly parroting academia

If I ever met you in real life I'd bloody your nose

British lit > French lit > the rest of books

no u

Don't fall for the bait.

>tfw not contrarian enough for user to contradict in a contrarianism thread

I think that the chinese and japanese literary traditions (especially poetry) are far superior to western traditions. although, i'm not really familiar with both. most certainly have no clue about the academic discussions about the two strands. and i think, it is most unfortunate, that the translations from chinese into german or english will never capture the true spirit of these works, however, i hope to find translations that consider the foreignness of chinese traditions.

Just accept like the rest of us have that you'll never read all the literature there is, or ever has been.

>I know nothing about any literary tradition whatsoever but the oriental tradition is best, haven't read it btw

>bourgeois values
There's that word. Well, now I'm afraid I'm wasting my time, but why not give it a try.

To start with, my main point is just that I don't think it is a contrarian view. A lot of artistic types don't really view themselves as having a career in art.

Moving on, though... That you have some sort of moral view on what literature is or should be is revealing about you and your politics, but says almost nothing of value about literature.

It is interesting that you mention evolution. In ancient times, folk songs and poetry survived because poetic devices (rhyme, meter) made them easier to remember. But even so, oral traditions are still notorious for problems of transmission. The idea that they are somehow purer of egregious intent is almost certainly trash, as these kinds of things were regularly changed or censored or appropriated to suit the ruling powers of the day (see: all the bronze age oral traditions and literatures compiled into the Bible by ancient israeli scribes).

Something you should realise is that literature and storytelling in general has a very close relationship to power. In ancient Mesopotamia, some of the first known literature emerged for reasons of religious worship and economic deals.

Today, a brutal form of global capitalism is centre stage. And yes, we also have modernism and an insane neoliberal academia. But is it any surprise that literature is beholden to capital? In the same way it was beholden to churches, nations, aristocracies, etc. Should it be resisted? Can you hope, when rejecting power, to create anything but powerless art? Can writers survive in a vacuum, independent of a patron of some kind, however loose the patronage?

A so-called cooperative literature is itself a whoring of sorts. Maybe it is some consolation to you that it is a circle jerk instead of a fucking, but it is just sordid in its own way.

I'm retarded too. I think we would be good friends.

I like fan theories etc. but when talking seriously about art it's silly to pretend the artist doesn't exist.

I'm more than inclined to agree with you. Critics are the fucking worst.

(You)

In this case bourgeois and neoliberal may be used interchangeably.

The ability of power to recuperate the revolutionary or even mundane aspects of autonomy does not undermine the value of autonomy entirely, even if it does make the prospect of free agency seem at times a futile effort. And I cannot say if most artists feel as I do since my experience has been largely with art school or liberal arts students who most definitely aspire to a career. I take as my example the folk song tradition of the USA before it began to be recorded and put on the radio. Today it has devolved all the way to Mumford and Sons etc.

Can art survive without power and patronage? It made it from the caves of lascaux and for millenia without it. So i imagine so.

American scholars are the absolute worst. They are so deluded in thinking their academia is important in any way and not just the laughingstock of the whole intellectual world. "Oh, but the great American novel!". The quintessential American retardation.

I do not understand modern journalism. Why the fuck do they have so much pride? Why do they think they are important in any way?

I don't trust people who have a single favorite novel or a clearly defined Top5 or whatever. If your taste doesn't change over time, you're doing something wrong. Or maybe you're just deluding to yourself.
(The only exception is when people admittedly re-read said favorite books or actually cite a few reasons).

I wished genre fiction authors included a list of their classical readings so some of their readers may grasp the concept they are reading shit tailored for and by uneducated manchildren.

>I don't trust people who have a single favorite novel or a clearly defined Top5 or whatever. If your taste doesn't change over time, you're doing something wrong. Or maybe you're just deluding to yourself.

I agree here. If your favourite book is still the one you read at 15 then chances are you haven't been developing your tastes. To be honest, there are so many great books out there that every other one I pick up becomes a favourite.

Good god this is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website.

Infinite Jest is a genuinely good book and shouldn't be a meme

You are boring.

t. never prostituted himself

no u
You write platitude after platitude and your platitudes don't even make sense.

>American scholars are the absolute worst. They are so deluded in thinking their academia is important in any way and not just the laughingstock of the whole intellectual world. "Oh, but the great American novel!". The quintessential American retardation.
You haven't met Italians. Italian scholars are capable of writing page long dissertations on a single passage or word choice of Dante.

Actually i have lol

You say nothing at all

Scholars of all nations have to write long abstruse critiques of nothing so that they can pretend they're doing shit. This is in no way restricted to Italians

I agree but Moby Dick has been my favorite book for years and I love it more every day

You're mom gay

i would need a friend, because hardly have any

Unrelated story. A friend of mine moved to Italy when he was 14 and after finishing HS, he decided to study Art History in a Milanese college. He graduated in just 2 years and felt extremely embarrassed during the graduation ceremony because they made him wear a gilded laurels wreath which, he felt, should've been reserved for masters or individuals who had actually achieved something worthy of respect.
His gf later graduated from a hair-dressing institute and, again, he saw how all the students got their gilded laurels.
Before moving back to South America (to study Art History a second time, lol), he threw the wreath to the ocean and now has very little trust of Italian professionals.

...

An how is that bad?

it's a fiction that you'll ever get to tap that ass yet you still pursue it

> the book you really want will bring down that whole archway

...

If a book requires multiple read troughs to understand. Then the author has failed.

Hitler was a great man.

That's not literary, just edgy.

>contrarian

Audio books are gay as fuck
Self help books are not literature
Everyone here should at least read 1 recently released book ( 5 years)

...

>In ancient Mesopotamia, some of the first known literature emerged for reasons of religious worship and economic deals.
The ones that are preserved and perpetuated sure. The problem is not who is telling stories, but what stories are favored and preserved/edited over others to serve an agenda rather for its own artistic sake

That's demonstrably incorrect.

If you don't have the requisite foundation, academically, then there are some ideas and abstractions of instantiated conceptualisation that are impossible for you to comprehend.

There is a ground level at which a bare minimum level of intellect is required to comprehend it sufficiently.

pynchon is shit
moby dick is a masterpiece
blood meridian is a cozy comedy

Fact

Yeah but which have you most consistently looked back on? You must have some that outlast the rest.

Pessimists and antinatalists are huge whiny babies who rationalize their weak natures as universal truths to make themselves feel better, and Thomas Ligotti is the biggest faggot out of all of them.

test

The Great Gatsby is an idiot’s idea of a classic novel

>Pessimists and antinatalists are huge whiny babies who rationalize their weak natures as universal truths to make themselves feel better
No
>and Thomas Ligotti is the biggest faggot out of all of them.
True, as well as a shitty fiction writer desu

Ligotti has some kind of mental problem that causes his outlook on life.

And the Conspiracy is great entertainment if you take out the nonsense about 'horror' being some key to understanding reality

Yeah the mental problem is called brainlet schools of philosophy

no he legitimately can't experience pleasure most of the time or something like that.

Also nihilism Ligotti style isn't brainlet, it's just edgy

is he retarded?

>Everyone here should at least read 1 recently released book ( 5 years)

Any suggestions?

the bible is the most valuable piece of literature ever written

I see where you're coming from, but ultimately it's just a pipe dream and a publishing industry is necessary. It has many of the pitfalls of most capitalist systems but is ultimately and demonstrably better than the unrealistic and unsustainable alternatives.

>Pessimists and antinatalists are huge whiny babies who rationalize their weak natures as universal truths to make themselves feel better
Yes.

Not even a religionfag but I agree.

>imitation of Western forms
Isn't that just a derogatory way to say western tradition?

The western canon is bullshit. Things in the canon should be scrutinized extra hard because of their status. You should not just ask the usual questions of the books, but also "why does this deserve to be in the canon?"
Everyone here posts the same books and has no taste of their own. Just look at haul/shelf/stack threads. Which makes sense since most of you are late teens or early twenties and still developing your own opinions, but it still annoys me

Not him but Krasznahorkai is pretty great,

The goddamned printer. They won't stop talking about the goddamned printer. I am a nice guy to my family, especially since they're letting me stay with them until I sign a lease, I let him talk and talk, I just nod and try my best to help him with what he needs done, but it's getting to an overwhelmingly ridiculous level of absurdity. He has had dementia screenings before and he comes in the clear. He is active and healthy for his old age. It has been a month since I started living with my grandfather. He is a good man, a real Eisenhower republican. I just moved into town and have been looking at apartments. His printer is acting up and he wants me to fix it. He won't stop talking about it. Its making me fucking nauseous just thinking about it. Jesus fucking Christ I would rather lodge a bullet in my brain before I hear one more iota of fucking information about this goddamned printer.
"Well I was trying to print out the e-mail I got from JR. You know JR and his wife had brisket out in old town last week. They said it was good. The printer ink is fine. I checked the levels. Wait hold on. Let me check the levels again. How do I check the ink levels, because last time they were down...or no they were up. Okay nice I can see them now. So the black ink...the black ink is alright, the yellow ink is...let me get my measuring tape out...no I know what I'm doing...I want a precise measurement...okay there we go, two centimeters of ink...The color ink is high, no use checking. The yellow on this page is not so good. It skips a few lines here and there. It does skip, don't you see it? My buddy down at southwest knows alot about printers, maybe I will call him. I bought this down at Sam's Club, but this printer doesn't have a warranty on it. Does it have a warranty? I think I remember JR down at Sam's telling me a one year warranty. I don't want to turn it in just yet. Do something to fix it. I don't know how to work those things. Plug it back in, but don't reset the computer. I have some files open, word documents, that I haven't saved, get those saved and come back to me."