What's with this board's aversion for multiculturalism in the canon? Arguments I frequently here are "Identity politics shouldn't overshadow good art" , "The canon is meant to be insular and European, other cultures cling onto it because they don't know how to make their own institutions", "All people of color write about is their experience as a person of color".
I don't think these arguments are appropriate. For one thing, I don't believe anyone is actually trying to imply that say Baldwin's prose is better than that in Moby Dick. People seem to have an impression that the inclusion of diversity is for the purpose of equating the talent of classics to that of later and underrated writers. I disagree with that. I think the purpose is simply that you will have a more nuanced perspective on life than what you get from primarily European writers. People often argue that Europeans don't spend their time writing about their whiteness they way black authors do but I think that's incorrect. For example, Joyce wrote exclusively about he experience of being an early 20th century Irishman. No one complains about him writing too much about being white though. And I think it's simply because people have normalized the presence of whiteness in literature to a point where they can't even conceive that the culture of these writers will influence their themes, perspectives, writing, etc. It's important to read writers from different cultures not because one is "better" than the classics. But because it is a take on life that you will not be granted if you read within a very insular criteria. And mind you, while many of these "minority" writers may not have the talent of Shakes or Joyce, they are still very talented and make worthwhile art that should not be disregarded for the sake of maintaining an elitist and insular idea of "literature" in my opinion. I think it's a silly idea and limits your perspective on the world. What do you think?
On the surface level, the incursion of /pol/ and the reactionary nature of this site in the face of admittedly trash social and cultural programming by mainstream media.
On another level, a lot of works by "diverse" authors are pushed because of authorial identity, not quality, and thats a problem too. But there arent many Veeky Forums types here that will despise Achebe or Thiongo, or the Japanese Canon, or the classic chinese novels, or something like Season of Migration to the North or Rabindranath Tagore or VS Naipaul as trash if they know what they are talking about.
Jose Reyes
Also, most readers here are beginners/early college students, so they dont know wtf they are talking about anyways, and are cheered by the relief at their ability to type the word nigger without sanction
Chase Wood
I agree. I definitely think that authors should not get a leg up due to some literary affirmative action. That's a waste of everyone's time. But the idea that the Western canon ought to be kept insular for "literature's sake" just seems more like misoneism than anything.
Leo Long
But then you have to decide who's worth it without being a racist. If we are talking contemporary Veeky Forums, Zadie Smith and Coates are absolute trash (to say nothing of Rupi Kaur). But then you have people like Beatty and James, who have legitimate great voices, but people are turned off by the reams of "oppressed voices" which are just huge whine fests.
Also, let the "western canon" be except for the inclusion of people like Cathar and Undset, and Emily Dickenson. Why should the "western canon" have people of other cultures? I thought we were talking about "the canon" that any modern person should read in order to be well read. Unless they are someone like Maimonides why would they be included.
Nathaniel Peterson
Western is a synonym for White or European. Include non-White authors in their own canons. Our canon is ours and is defined by our racial & civilisational identity.
Alexander Brooks
this, there is an Anglo European culture that exists, is vibrant, and should not be dismantled. Women are included in that. Darkies are not (except ishiguro and works of afro american/Caribbean lit)
Elijah Thomas
A lot of resistance to this sort of thing comes from very understandable misgivings about projecting contemporary American racial politics into a past where they don't apply. The dichotomy of people of colour/white people is irrelevant when we're talking about classical antiquity or the medieval period. There's something very ironic about eager postmodernists projecting their own values and assuming them to be universal
Elijah Jones
Western can mean many things. Does it include writers from North Africa or the middle east? Homer, the bible, St augustine etc do not map neatly into modern racial categories
Cameron Lopez
Yes but not after the arab invasions unless it took place in spain
Bentley Rogers
this tbqh
Josiah Anderson
Your single edge case are pre-Arab Semetic people who are racial first cousins of Europeans (at worst) and who have 2500 years of intimate shared history with Europeans. Include them in the canon as an edge case where they are significant to European cultural & intellectual life, like the Bible, Christianity & Scholasticism.
Adrian Martinez
The canon is a vague list of books considered to be aesthetically the best and most influential. Books by black authors in a western country (because we're talking about the western canon) are written basically only in USA. Their influence is simply minimal. They can't be included for muh diverse perspectives, because then you'd also have to add numerous obscure writers from the outskirts of Europe, and, why not, all the other canonical books from completely different cultures, India, far east etc. Pro tip: disregard the canon altogether.
Robert Scott
No one disregards minority writers. I doubt most people even give a fuck who the author is, because like most people, the average Veeky Forumsizen is looking at the book and content.
I guarantee when I'm on Goodreads looking for a new book to read I don't hunt down the author to make sure they're a white male or some shit. I just find books I like and read them.
But this progressive, post-modern agenda of "Diversity or else (we ruin your life, your career, add you to #metoo allegations, or call you a literal Hitler)" has been happening for YEARS.
Stuff like this: adbl.co/2p2As7Y Or things were people claim "Reverse racism isn't a thing", you're right. When you're racist against whites it's just straight racism.
This is why Trump won. You can only bring up these points and get compared to Hitler so many times before you get fed up. Contrary to what the media would have you believe, there are plenty of supporters out there who are well-read, well-educated and simply sick of the constant SJW narrative.
Pretty much this. Also can include Sappho and George Eliot and Woolf; no well-read person would say they're complete shit and don't deserve to be in the Western canon. It's just that what modern ideologies seem to be saying the equivalent of at times is, "Let's just kick out white male authors like Shakespeare and replace them with authors like Rupi Kaur," which is stupid.
Henry Torres
I don't think this is true. Melville is American, Dickinson is too. Borges is South American. It's clearly not just white anglo authors, if it were, it'd be "the European Canon". Western is often associated with white but it is not a literal synonym for it.
This sort of anxiety is consistent with many people on this site. You seem to think that a desire for diversity is inherently a desire to erase tradition. Yes, many Marxists would like to destroy Western culture however identity politics and other similar phenomena are not inherently made with this intent. I'm speaking for myself here and going off of observations when I say that no one is trying to undervalue or disregard the beauty produced by Anglo European culture. People would simply like to include other authors in the West in the Western canon.
I disagree with that, I think your implying a slippery slope that isn't necessarily inevitable. I'm arguing that we should take the excellence of these marginalized cultures an include them, not just shoe everyone in for the sake of diversity alone. I'm not saying "throw in 30 new authors just because they're not white" i'm saying "don't disregard talent because it doesn't fit into an insular definition of literature". I don't think there is some vast amount of non-whites that ought to be included. But to say that there should be none is senseless to me.
Liam Ortiz
Sorry I shouldn't have said no one. I mean to say "not everyone".
Jacob Lopez
well said.
Robert Cruz
>No one disregards minority writers >People on this site have literally called Baldwin and nigger and claimed him to be anti-white.
There is certainly a prejudice in act. Maybe you do not have it but it does have a presence.
You're kind of going on a tangent though. I get that any post referencing idpol may appear like another call for Marxist hegemony but I'm just trying to have a discussion. Trust me, I'm not for the leftist agenda of "assimilate or you're a piece of shit". I just think people ought to not be averse to things because of some sort of gossip they've heard.
Robert Foster
This tbqh. By any /pol/-tard's standards I'd be a cuck because I admit, say, black people deal with problems whites don't, and so on. But because I hate and ridicule SJWs, I'd be seen as a douchey white nationalist and chauvinist according to most of the mainstream media and liberal culture and the average millennial.
Look at Harold Bloom. I doubt he's really at all racist or sexist and won't admit that minorities have a harder time in the West in certain respects and women have been oppressed throughout history and misogyny is widespread, but just for harshly criticizing SJW presence in academia and literature as lowering literary standards and over-politicizing literature at the expense of beauty and meaning, he's been called a fascist, a douchebag, a backwards reactionary, and so on.
Chase Bell
> People on this site have literally called Baldwin a nigger
Veeky Forums is not the basis for determining how "normal" people act. Since the creation of the site, there has been either blatant racism or blatant shock-value "racism. The things I'm ranting about are my response to the leftist movement as a whole, not specifically using Veeky Forums as an example.
> You're kind of going on a tangent though You're right. I'm sorry. It's easy to get heated over discussions like this.
>Trust me, I'm not for the leftist agenda That's fine, I'm not trying to accuse you, just explaining how I see it.
>I just think people ought to not be averse to things because of some sort of gossip they heard That's an understandable point, but in a somewhat hypocritical way, I refuse to read that until this leftist fervor either disappears or is restructured because I think reading that would be "supporting the movement" There are plenty of other things to study in the meantime, and those books will already be there.
But to answer your original question, I don't think people (Veeky Forums or otherwise) who agree with my point above will read those books because of what I stated; they don't want to further that specific SJW agenda.
Jose Wright
>is called the western canon >why arent these non-european, non-western mediocre authors included? Stop being so exclusive
You have a good point OP, but just a little reminder, you are using Veeky Forums, what do you expect?
Camden Adams
My opinion here is similar to Žižek's point about colonialism: m.youtube.com/watch?v=k7RyVmZWuzs That is, I don't think incorporating particular national literatures into the western canon is a radical gesture or even necessarily increases diversity. The fact that people all over the world appropriate the western canon and consider themselves an extension of western culture is precisely its genius and cause of vitality. If you want to claim that the western canon is limited by focusing itself on Greece, Rome, medieval Christendom etc., this implies that current western society is some kind of direct extension of these historical cultures, but that's a pretty strange thought. Many Christian classics originate from the Middle East, as does the philosophical legacy of aristotelianism, platonism etc. That is, the modern West has itself appropriated this tradition and claimed it as the Western tradition, but it is by no means a tradition of solely white european males. I live in Eastern Europe, but I claim the same literary tradition as someone living in the anglo world - isn't this an incredible fact by itself? Why resist it?
Nolan Adams
Not quite on topic but relevant; most of the issues with this board lie within the fact that /pol/ exists. I wish this site blocked one's IP from Veeky Forums the moment one posts in /pol/. This is already the best board on Veeky Forums and its value would skyrocket if something like that were implemented.
Nolan Morgan
The Western Canon is already multicultural, a polyglot monument of paper and ink built by people coming from all manner of walks of life, and all manner of cultures, languages, beliefs, spanning over two a half millennia. Indian and Chinese literature have canonical works of their own, if for whichever reason your language or area doesn't have its own paper monument just yet, I suggest you leave the others' alone, and find something worth writing, as I suspect your envy may not stand the test of time.
Luis Gray
>>>/reddit/
Austin Stewart
Leftists can't even appreciate 'nonwestern' cultures in their own right as distinct traditions: you will rarely see them discuss Indian philosophy or classical chinese literature and many of the works in those fields remain woefully untranslated. They are only interested in them insofar as they are 'oppressed' or 'marginalized' by 'the west' a concept which they unquestiningly reify and which has long been emptied of meaning. Muh Identities are mass produced ahistorical bundles of labels and affects and art has been reduced to a purely technical administrative question
Christopher Butler
Yes, just ban any ideas that you don't like. That's the liberal way
Nolan Torres
The canon is specific tradition and many works aren't going to fit into it. Why does Veeky Forums tell you that you need to read certain works before going on to others, because the canon is a conversation and you won't understand what is being reacted to if you haven't done the prerequisite reading. Why would you add authors to the canon that don't converse with it or react to it in any meaningful way?
This is why the east have their own canon and tradition. They didn't interact with the western tradition for a long time so obviously it has it's own separate sphere. I guess you just have differing voices where people want these 'diverse authors' to be included in the canon and others who just want to disregard the tradition entirely.
Plus you can't really just decide to make something canonical in the first place, like it's a list you just add to. Many authors who were touted as great by esteemed critics/writers/artists in the past are completely forgotten.
Landon Powell
uuuh thanks for strawmanning the heck out of your perceived enemies, sweetie.
Isaac Sanchez
Exactly. The leftist has no interest in what constitutes greatness in other cultures. They're only interested in what makes them, today -- according to leftists --, oppressed. They would hate to see something beautiful walk this earth, without trying to defile it. Their hatred of life knows no bounds. It is a hatred of life, as a biological question, a biological, organic phenomenom. They are worshippers of death. You'll never see a leftist asking that the Gita be included in the Canon, but they'll be push some contemporary second-rate authors.
Aiden Howard
nice bait
Jason Young
>everyone who doesn't agree with me is from /pol/ >they should be banned so that I can enjoy only those who think like me >it is impossible to hold a discourse against multiculturalism and against affirmative action which trumps literary value, without being a meme-spouting nazi I know this is said often, but you literally should go to reddit. The downvote system makes it so that in a given subreddit, everyone will agree. I bet there's one for leftism and literature. You'll enjoy yourself much more.
John Nelson
That's valid I see where you're coming from. It's an annoying agenda to even be in close proximity to.
There are already non-europeans included in the canon. The West does not mean "white europeans only".
This is a fine opinion, however, I don't think many people see it this way. I think that people do perceive it as nothing more than the pure genius of European anglos uninspired by anything but their own big white brains. And on that basis it should not be tampered with. As you've said yourself, it is an amalgamation of ideas from a myriad of cultures. Because of that, I don't see why we should pretend that it needs to remain insular when the ideas never were in the first place.
Yes I believe many people are like this but I think there are also a lot who aren't. It's just interesting to see another culture's take on life, not because of the social capital they have as an oppressed person necessarily, but because different cultures view things differently. I get what you're speaking against, but don't get off thinking that it's everyone.
I see what you're getting at and I think that makes sense. I think we may need more time to tell if there would be any worthy contenders to diversify the canon. But to assume that there cannot be and that the only purpose of this is to eradicate tradition and replace with with substanceless idpol is inappropriate imo.
Aiden Reyes
Hilarious paranoia. Most leftists have no particular problem with the western canon, they concern themselves with practical problems in contemporary capitalism. Of course, your whole pathology is identifying the postmodern academia of literary criticism as "the left" and assigning everything bad in western culture as their doing. Newsflash, Marxists have better shit to do than worry about who counts as literature.
Josiah Stewart
Yeah I don't think we should just get rid of pol but I do see where he's coming from. I think what he means is that the influence of pol allows people to think more insular and reject any sort of idea that is foreign to them without giving it further scrutiny. For example, I've seen Malcolm X discussed on pol and people just claimed he was an idiot because he's black. I've seen others go onto say that the best part of his book was when he gave up on black people. Both of these things are untrue and a result of the sort of prejudice ridden perspectives of pol. It's not that pol shouldn't have an opinion. But we can't deny that they have an immense amount of uneducated ones and this results in a cluttering of discussion. I don't mind to have a talk about why we shouldn't have welfare or foodstamps, or why it's not necessary to read a black author. That's a fine talk to have, even if I disagree. But it's not fine when the conversation doesn't get to happen because it's met with "HAHAHA SHUT UP NIGGER" and nothing gets done.
Daniel Hill
'Non idpol' leftists are a tiny minority who is despised by the rest of the left.
Nicholas Thompson
The left is all that strives towards nothingness. Thus anything christian is leftist. All that sues for general peace, peace of the heart, of the mind, --- no more quarrel, peace at last ; and for everyone : happiness ; and most of all, sleep, the last, the great ---- sleep. That, is the left. All those who wish to bring about the kingdom of Ends, all the preachers of death, of equality, of meekness, of peace : those are leftist.
Ayden Bennett
Sometimes I wish we actually followed the global rules desu. For racism to be so widespread on an anonymous imageboard is fucking retarded, anyway. For all you idiots know, I could be posting from an african country right now and nobody would know just because I speak English. Yet people get constantly called shitskins and subhumans when expressing non-/pol/ opinions. I'm tired of their shit, they've been ruining every board on this website for years and I have absolutely no problem with banning them for posting /pol/ propaganda. I'm a commie but I don't post commie catchphrases every day or reside on commie forums. Get a goddamned life.
>I'm tired of their shit, they've been ruining every board on this website for years and I have absolutely no problem with banning them for posting /pol/ propaganda. I'm a commie but I don't post commie catchphrases every day or reside on commie forums. Are you gonna break in tears over words on your computer screen? Kill yourself, faggot.
No, I'll continue attempting to have fruitful discussions while every single thread devolves into stupid bullshit about the Jews, white civilization and the nigger menace.
Jose Roberts
All these people defending /pol/ or free speech or whatever the hell it is you are arguing for are being irrational. /pol/ stifles the conversation to the point that you can't actually have a conversation. It is one thing to have a discussion with people who disagree with you, it is entirely something else to have someone spout bullshit rhetoric with no value so loudly that real conversation gets drowned out.
Christian Edwards
Literally never happens. You're a weak little bitch.
Justin Johnson
Not to mention that according to their ideology many here would be executed multiple times over.
Jace Cook
>All these people defending /leftypol/ or free speech or whatever the hell it is you are arguing for are being irrational. /leftypol/ stifles the conversation to the point that you can't actually have a conversation. It is one thing to have a discussion with people who disagree with you, it is entirely something else to have someone spout bullshit rhetoric with no value so loudly that real conversation gets drowned out.
Asher Rodriguez
It wouldn't be the western canon if it included non western authors. Why is diversity always given this blanket unquestioned support as if it's always a good thing?
Tyler Jackson
What was the point of this post user?
Ryder Reed
this reads like a poem lmao
Grayson Wilson
>you will have a more nuanced perspective on life than what you get from primarily European writers only cultures rooted in Europe are introspective enough to do self-criticism of any kind, only Europeans ever did anthropology, if it was 四大名著 instead of the Western canon you'd be having a thread on what is the best age to read each novel to strengthen the nation
Jack Murphy
>leftypol is the real menace >implying pol doesn't do this just as much as the left
I can't tell you how many times I've tried to discuss something involving black people and literally just being shut down with "i wont argue with a nigger". Both are arrogant and ignorant.
Jonathan Hughes
>Thinking multiculturalism means non Western
There is more than one culture that exists in the Western hemisphere user.
William Campbell
>I've tried to discuss something involving black people Why would you do that?
Asher Roberts
So? That doesn't make the Japanese man living in California a part of the western tradition. It doesn't matter who lives here.
Blake Bailey
...
Kevin Johnson
It does if the Japanese man's family had been in American since the 19th century.
Josiah Ramirez
>nd I think it's simply because people have normalized the presence of whiteness in literature to a point where they can't even conceive that the culture of these writers will influence their themes, perspectives, writing, etc. I don't know if this is a meme thread or not, but I actually agree with this. A lot of time people argue white artists write for everyone when really they write for themselves but since both are white the reader assumes it's everyone.
Grayson Walker
Why are white people in the United States considered a part of the western tradition as opposed to the native American tradition?
Jeremiah King
Are you saying that the Bible as well as non-whites like Augustine of Hippo, Michel de Montaigne, Henri Bergson, Marcel Proust and Franz Kafka are not part of the Western canon?
Ayden Lee
>non-whites like Michel de Montaigne, Henri Bergson, Marcel Proust and Franz Kafka
Speaking of mutts, Pushkin and Dumas were both quadroons, but nobody would dispute that they are part of the Western canon despite their non-white ancestry
Parker Thompson
>I disagree with that, I think your implying a slippery slope that isn't necessarily inevitable. I'm arguing that we should take the excellence of these marginalized cultures an include them Reread my post >The canon is a vague list of books considered to be aesthetically the best and most influential >>>>>and most influential
>i'm saying "don't disregard talent because it doesn't fit into an insular definition of literature". I live in a small irrelevant European country that has produced some incredible talents. Outside of my country those writers are complete obscurities. Mere talent is not what gets you into the canon, you need influence too. And, as I said, black writers in the western cultural hemisphere are nearly completely irrelevant.
Andrew Diaz
Our internet connection speed is actually higher than that of the US
Xavier Wood
Is that how you hacked the election?
Jacob Bell
what?
Jose Scott
>435 elaborated troll post
Logan Hughes
Everyone above and below this post is retarded and I hope you all die painful and ironic deaths. Suck it losers.
wow race realism and cultural appropriation, ahnenerbe much?
Noah Bailey
Boomers and other Afro-fetishists view blacks as the only diversity that matters. They cannot comprehend that Christianity plays a huge role in Western culture and being European or from the diaspora also plays a huge role. It's why Jews also aren't Western.
Xavier Sanders
The left has nobody but themselves to blame for the fact that people in the year 2018 are less willing to accept non-whites than a hundred years back. You can push a narative just for so long, till the group you try to bully will stand up and protect themselves, even if it means losing out on a couple of those non-whites which would deserve it.
The tide is changing, the u18 shitposters here will be the next generation of voters. Minorities like myself warned you fucking retards for years, but what can a stupid house niBBa like me know, right? Thanks for nothing and yes, the Polaks have every right to act the way they do.
Christopher Mitchell
What sort of minority are you?
Xavier Long
The western canon is a product of the history of the european peoples. It is called the western canon because it is based on the history of the european peoples, on what happened in that particular society in a certain period of time, it is the historical canon of the peoples of western europe, and it like that because the people who wrote it were europeans. If what is written in the canon is not european, it isn't part of the european tradition, then it isn't western, it is from the region the person who's written it comes from because that isn't the history of the west.
The western canon isn't multicultural, because it is a local canon (that is written in its own name, because it is called western (european) canon, it would be called "the universal canon" or "the multcultural canon" if it were reserved to all peoples of the world, if you're reading this on this board it is reasonable that one could assume that you can understand that).
It is offensive and disrespectful to yourselves when non westerners try to force themselves into a canon that isn't their own, because they do have their own traditions, it is true that many peoples couldn't write at a time the western canon had many great writers, but it is bad for them to ignore their own traditions instead of working in the history of their own people and rather spend their time complaining about it thinking they having no role in the european tradition is about racism or whatever. That happens because they were not part of europe. That happens among all different literary traditions, there are no western writers in the eastern canon as well, only eastern writers, for instance, and this is perfectly fine, because it is their history, it was their people who went through the things that had made that canon possible. Why instead of complaining about it you don't think about writing your own canons and being the pioneers of your own great ideas on your own historical tradition instead of trying to change history so you can include non western people in the western canon? That is something that erases your own identity and disrupts the sense of belonging of the people you're trying to blame for having their own history as well. Start respecting yourselves, and your works are going to be respected. If your ideas are great, it doesn't matter what canon they are written in.
Jackson Walker
Permavirgin
Gavin Lewis
>take on life this is bogus. what's at issue is a question of emphasis- what should be emphasized in literary study-- race or fine writing in English, in Spanish, in Russian, in Latin, in Greek? The point of attack BY the racially-sexually oriented (read snottily egotistical) is that the host of predominantly male authors who have advanced the means of expression in their various languages are somehow now bogus as an object of study, which is not only a phony perpetual b8, but an excuse to be lazy. James Baldwin and W. E. B. Dubois were strong writers (the latter even quasi-Hegelian), for instance-- but they were also readers of books. Complaining about 'the man' is one thing, but LARPing that 'the man' himself wrote all the books that teach us to extend our expression via the use of words is just silly- as both these writers knew. Words live on- not white men, not hispanic men, not slavic men, etc. Anyone who seriously studies lit is interested ultimately in language, not race, and certainly not 'sex'.
Gavin Ward
german sandnigger aka Gastarbeiter Do you want to count my oprresion points to see if you need to consider my opinion?
Western = white; western literature = white literature; the western canon = the elite body of work produced by whites.
This is how it is. Non-whites have nothing to do with it, regardless of whether they were brought to the west on a jewish slave ship 300 years ago, or let into the west following the 1965 jewish-sponsored immigration act. Whether a jewish gatekeeper puts the work of non-whites in, whether the work is objectively good, rare as that is, it doesn't matter.
The western canon is an expression of our culture and our culture is an expression of our genetic and spiritual legacy as a people. It is not something anyone can be a part of, it is exclusive to us.
James Foster
Turks are in a unique position. You have a choice and can make a difference.
Noah Hall
And now counter- count what blacks waste on gibs, which they and baners get multiple times the amunt of whites. Also stop using "slate" as a source. It's like poltards using breitbart.
Robert Garcia
But even conservative versions of the Western canon include multiple books written by people of non-European origin. Do you think that the Bible should be excluded from the canon?
Luke Rodriguez
That's a joke. Do you know how many trillions of dollars have been spent on blacks? Blacks are a net negative force in white countries, and are dysfunctional everywhere they exist.
Jonathan Nguyen
canon literally means "rule"
multiculturalism is all about dissolving all concrete rules of a society so that that society is able to function as a neutral territory where other external cultures can survive and thrive. so multiculturalism is all about destroying a canon so that external canons can occupy that space without any pushback
Lucas Nguyen
Literature is white. These other races are only mimicking our culture, they are not a part of it
if that were true, then why are all the X* studies academic degrees do shit scholarship when engaging any foreign tradition on their own terms and instead turn every foreign culture into a western liberal victim cult?
Nolan Brooks
>And now counter- count what blacks waste on gibs, which they and baners get multiple times the amunt of whites.
There would be poor people in the US even if there wouldn’t be any non-whites there, and the American government would have to pay the same amount of money to them, or maybe even more considering that all homogenous European countries have much larger welfare states than the US
>Also stop using "slate" as a source.
That’s not Slate, that’s Scott Alexander’s blog.
Ayden Turner
>meds aren't white my least favorite g*rmanic meme worse than even the reformation
Xavier Flores
why don't create their own canon then? there's no meaning in diluting something that was already working with something new that may or may not work
Isaiah Howard
>It's 2018 and Americans think Western means white >The Canon is "muh Anglo circle jerk" >There are several non anglos in the Canon
Uhhh
Logan Miller
>There would be poor people in the US even if there wouldn’t be any non-whites There would be less, and therefore less to spent. I seriously hope that wasn't your argument. Further it would give more jobopportunities without illegals in there for those willing to work lower wages.
>it's not Slate >it's a blog Yeah, that makes it so much better lol
