You say you're a socialist...

Imagine unironically believing that the only reason people disagree with you is because they are uninformed, and that your opinions are self-evidently right and there is an inevitable march of progress towards your exact conclusions.

I know that the current capitalist society is nothing like Smith or other Enlightenment philosophers wrote about.

It's even better.

Elaborate on how it’s better, you huge faggot.

>Elaborate on how it’s better
Freer the market, the freer the people.

Also fuck Smith's world peace bullshit. America should be free to further its own interests.

Why don't you suck my dick, you fucking pseud.

>B-b-but socialism can improve the consumer price index in the workers favor while rapidly progressing technological improvements!
>I-I-i'm just participating a system I don't want to be in because I don't have any other choice
>Fucking class cucks

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First get best get

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Oh, cool. You’re an edgy “muh crush the weak” pseud who thinks hegemony that fosters hatred for us around the world + from our poorest and most disadvantaged is not only sustainable, but good. That’s always solid.

There's a difference from having to engage with capitalism and reveling in some of its worst aspects. Every leftist I know does the latter.

>the State should be an agent that meddles in others' markets
free markets for me, imperialism for thee

>You’re an edgy “muh crush the weak” pseud who thinks hegemony that fosters hatred for us around the world + from our poorest and most disadvantaged is not only sustainable, but good.
Nope.

That's the second time you've assumed something and turned out to be wrong.

You should learn from these mistakes.

Being ruled by America makes 99% of people freer than they would be if they "ruled" themselves.

You're mistaking sovereignty with individual freedom. The sovereignty of a state like Syria is far less important to me and anyone with a brain than the freedom of the Syrians who live there. I'd overthrow a thousand governments to liberate one man.

>muh sovereignty

Go off yourself, pseud.

>asked to elaborate
>responds with a fucking meme

>Being ruled by America makes 99% of people freer than they would be if they "ruled" themselves.
Not sure if b8 or not

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>I'd overthrow a thousand governments to liberate one man.
lol

Re-read that post, user. It's anything but a defence of sovereignty.

Absolutely 100% sincere.

I will never apologise for American imperialism, because it is unquestionably a force for good.

>Being ruled by America makes 99% of people freer than they would be if they "ruled" themselves
I don't think the Russians and Chinese would agree with this at all man
>you're mistaking sovereignty with individual freedoms
yeah this is bad philosophy, if you're going to say that American needs to be free to rule, others will then coherently argue with your own logic that there should be Chinese controlled world economy and so on.
>The sovereignty of a state like Syria is far less important to me and anyone with a brain than the freedom of the Syrians who live there
Interesting because Putin and Assad seem to have stabilized the region and prevented an economic disaster with massive flooding of idiot workers into the West I don't think you understand how US imperialism is just Anglo Imperialism and Germanic Imperialism and that other cultures have the exact same ruling principles like them organizing foreign races affairs and them undermining the sovereignty of enemy empires. What you're saying is really just political rhetoric and frat jock thought which you've married to neo-faggot buttboy economics.
>i'd do a stupid thing for a dumb reason
yes, I'm sure you would brainlet

Cuck.

>Being ruled by America makes 99% of people freer than they would be if they "ruled" themselves.
lel

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Sometimes I forget just how edgy american lolbertarians can be

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>I don't think the Russians and Chinese would agree with this at all man
I would be careful about lining up next to two shithole autocracies with the masses in chains when trying to argue about people's right to self determination.

>if you're going to say that American needs to be free to rule, others will then coherently argue with your own logic that there should be Chinese controlled world economy and so on.
Nope, because the right to rule depends on the state's legitimate claim to be the leader of the free world.

China and Russia have no such claim because they do nothing to defend the universal rights of man. America has a glorious claim, because we have both the principles and the power.

>Interesting because Putin and Assad seem to have stabilized the region and prevented an economic disaster
Meaningless. Without freedom there is no achievement.

>Nope, didn’t say that
>Also fuck Smith's world peace bullshit. America should be free to further its own interests.

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>thinks he is free when all the freedom he has is whether to dine in McDonalds or in KFC
long live america

How retarded are you? Have you ever read a single thing about what the US government did in Guatemala, Nicaragua, Vietnam, Iraq, or any other shithole country it decided to tear a new asshole for no reason other than its own interests? Jesus, you’re remarkably stupid.

The strong have the right to enslave the weak.

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Should’ve said US military

American interests are the furthering of liberty and the defence of the weak.

Are you implying I'd be more free if that choice were taken away from me?

This is the problem with Veeky Forumslets. They don't think before they post.

>shithole country
You admit they're shitholes, and then blame the US for them being shitholes?

I'm not the one grandstanding about ideals I'm too cowardly to live up to.

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>muh freedom

USSR began from the most backward country to a superpower capable of rivalling the US.
Only once we put aside this democratic liberal bullshit can we build something stronger.

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>Are you implying I'd be more free if that choice were taken away from me?
Don't worry, nobody is going to take your fundamental national freedom of choosing a fast-food restaurant.

>nobody is going to take your fundamental national freedom of choosing a fast-food restaurant.
Just one post ago it sounded like you wanted to.

I see your true colours commie faggot.

Being able to chose my dinner is as much an inalienable right as being able to chose my representative.

Take your fucking National Meal Plan diktats back to Moscow where they belong.

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Those nations shouldn't have dared to stand in the way of the American empire.

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>American interests are the furthering of liberty and the defence of the weak

Like assassinating the democratically-elected president of Guatemala and installing a series of dictators instead, right?

>would be careful about lining up next to two shithole autocracies with the masses in chains when trying to argue about people's right to self determination
multiple rigged elections, a candidate whose people threaten delegates and another who murders a man who proved her and her party leader rigged the election against a populist (the free will of the people violated by the very system they installed), constant surveillance from a massive police state, corporations literally sending their people into government to write retarded laws that cause social and economic turmoil. think more deeply about your current environment before you start talking badly about China and Russia user
>Nope, because the right to rule depends on the state's legitimate claim to be the leader of the free world.
no that's an argument predicated upon a presupposition, freedom and who has it, what produces it, which is circular and self justifying. You can't even say that with a straight face to a room full of autocrats without them laughing you to death. Go say that to Putin who literally stopped his country from being sold off to European oligarchs. Go say that to Xi or anyone else and they'll tell you they are freedom with as much credulity as you think the idiots in America have when they say it.
>without freedom
freedom to do what find a wage-slave job? they can do that in Russia and China. Freedom to not be harassed by security forces? Black people, journalists and drug users don't have that freedom here and they're ostensibly all citizens who aren't violating the fundamental laws of the State at all, no violation of property or bodies is happening yet they're constantly harangued for trivial or certainly political reasons. What about freedom to trade? the government constantly inteferes in this, this is the case, whatever you want it to be, the current imperialist regime, which we already fucking had before the orange tv man, does this as a matter of course. You mean freedom to bear arms or to vote or talk? How does the latter cause economic growth and how does the former even do anything at all besides act as a point of pride? Most euros who have healthier economies don't have free speech or freedom to bear arms. So freedom to vote? What about convicts who are in jail for drug dealing? What about people who get a bunch of DUI's but are perfectly competent and can't vote anymore? It goes on but you're sort of dealing with a pathetic kind of freedom. Freedom should be defined as the ability to roam and to be without coercion, and no state especially imperialist states guarantees this. Your standards for who should rule are stupid, your argument for American imperialism is self defeating your presupposition of freedom's legitimizing power and actual nature in America where you say its so important is also fucking dumb and circular. Think more, type less user

Precisely zero of those examples did that

Any nation with national soveirgenty is a threat to the US and its global hegemony.

Allende had or coming for what he did to the copper industry and agricultural sector desu

Also I'm.*glad* Pinochet killed all those narcos and gommies

you got far in your memeing but i think people will wise up here

>inalienable right as being able to chose my representative
>still believes that representatives convey his interests instead of interests of millionaires
dream on

This is generally a dumb argument UNLESS you're specifically talking about luxury brands. Being a cummie and owning a smartphone? Not hypocritical. Being a cummie and owning an iPhone? Hypocritical.

Leftism is inherently expansionist, so any state that adopts it must be stopped by all those around them. One domino is all it takes to knock over the rest.

>socialist country with genuine democratic freedoms
I don't think this is possible. Without a central government no one will want to do the hard-necessary work.

>democratically elected in a virtually unopposed election with a cabinet full of communists and military backing
This rosy view of Latin American wonderful flower democracies that the US callously destroyed is fucking laughable.

>multiple rigged elections, a candidate whose people threaten delegates and another who murders a man who proved her and her party leader rigged the election against a populist (the free will of the people violated by the very system they installed), constant surveillance from a massive police state, corporations literally sending their people into government to write retarded laws that cause social and economic turmoil. think more deeply about your current environment before you start talking badly about China and Russia user
Oh look, it's another "I am going to be literally fucking retarded and pretend that fucking Russia and China are more free than the US, because my anti-American boner is just that large that my brain no longer receives blood."

I'm not interested in counting your pubes, user. Russia and China are demonstrably less free than the US. Cry more, faggot.

>You can't even say that with a straight face to a room full of autocrats
My interest in autocrats extends only to arranging their executions.

The rest of your post is just whining at minor inconveniences while Russian journalists are fucking sent to black sites and tortured.

You have no fucking perspective on what tyranny looks like, but you want me to treat your half-assed adolescent whinging about "the man" seriously.

Sovereignty is fine as long as the people engage in legitimate for!s of human organization. Anything outside of that should be crushed without mercy.

What the fuck is this guys endgame?

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stop autistic manchildren from larping as weimar germans

Now try it without using platitudes

>freedom is a platitude
This is what you get when an entire generation is raised without ever having to take a stand.

They forget that there are things worth fighting for.

I hope ironic neoconposting becomes the next big fad desu

You are a neckbeard beating your fat, cheeto-dusted fingers on a keyboard so to share with Veeky Forums your weird ideas about how "liberty" correlates to brutal American hegemony. Quit LARPing as a WWII hero, you faggot.

Just because we can afford luxury things doesn't mean they aren't a luxury. Do you think a socialist society would be willing to replace your smartphone every year?

>You are a neckbeard beating your fat, cheeto-dusted fingers on a keyboard
Three wrong assumptions this thread so far.

Keep them coming user.

My guy we've been descending daily further and further into a Weimar 2.0 for years now, and his weak liberal egalitarianism doesn't even account for a bandage on the mutilated mess that is culture today. I'm not even white, but I am not alone in that this is driving me harder right than I'd ever have imagined. It's all happening so quickly user, and unless something big changes fast, it's bound to get increasingly worse.

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Huh commies btfo!! No step on snek!!!

Me getting my remote off-grid farm house and not supporting capitalist economy not gonna happen in one day

This

>USSR began from the most backward country to a superpower capable of rivalling the US.
Lmao. Russia had been growing and modernizing at staggering rates for 40+ years before the revolution, lend-lease was the only thing that saved them from ignominious defeat in WWII and the only thing propping up their international status later was their nuclear arsenal and their ability to squeeze their neighbors and vassal states. Their economy was shit, their standard of living was shit, their government was shit and the whole ramshackle mess eventually collapsed under its own weight after ~55 years after bleeding territory for decades as other parts of Europe told them to fuck off and they couldn't do anything about it.

>B-b-but capitalism was trying to destroy them the whole time and it wasn't fair a bloo bloo bloo
Yeah, and here in the real world nothing exists in a vacuum.

>You say you're a free market capitalist, yet you're currently driving through a road paid by the government? how DELICIOUSLY IRONIC!

>if you're forced to pay for something you don't want you should throw it away without using it

iPhones are literally the pleb tier smartphones though

>You have no fucking perspective on what tyranny looks like, but you want me to treat your half-assed adolescent whinging about "the man" seriously.
the US has killed journalist in wet works operations, tortured journalists, disappeared journalists, tried to brainwash them, frame them and has suicided journalists you dumb fucking cattle pleb
>the man
exists and is raping you and yours you dumb fucking nigger, they literally get together and collude to ruin your fucking life every single year in Davos and in Ooserbeek and Spa to fuck you over and make your life a little more hellish. Do you not have the slightest self respect left that a fake war with fake information so embarassing the whole leadership of the CIA had to quit, fake economics and a fake credit economy that wiped out more wealth than at any time in recent memory, a fake election in 2000, a rigged election in 2016 on both sides, Hillary Clinton had someone killed who had proof she and her boss were manipulating votes and delegates you stupid nigger. Do you realize what happened? also how funny it is our leader hasn't jailed these people? I'd ask how oligarch cum tastes but you probably work for a big fortune 500 or go to a top 40 uni that's built off their semen and honey amirite man?
>Russians harm people
yes and so do we and it limits peoples freedoms to an incredible extent, our legal system is pure oligarchic nonsense, it has nothing to do with the average property owners freedom or happiness, nothing at all to do with fair elections, gerrymandering is anathema to democracy, corporate influence and large donations from Israelis and Saudis/Qataris is not freedom or free elections. All the last presidents have been related to billionaires or basically billionaires.
>Russia and China are demonstrably less free
my whole argument is that you don't care about freedom, you can't really define it, you will defend instances of it being violated in the most vile of ways with total abandon by the ruling class and owners and all this while being convinced that its a ruling virtue over all others. That China's stability, that Russia's disproportionate might are not virtues. And then where does the freedom come from? A new world order, American world order yeah? So, why not a chinese world order or a Russian world order based on their values? You think they're going to genocide everyone instead of using them for productive value, as chattel or serfs just like the US uses Latin America and Africa today?

What did the US do in Latin America to get those open markets, didn't they violate people's freedoms? why wouldn't they do that to Americans? You think the Military and Intel agencies don't fuck with elections, fuck with journalists and with civilians online and in universities? Have you heard of cointel pro and operation mockingbird? There's things like this happening to this day, journalists sit on the CFR and Bilderberg and cooperate with the ruling elite

Juden Petersein works at a subsidised university and eats food from a subsidises farm

Apple pulls a lot of shit but iPhones from last year still outperform Samshit's recently released S9. Apple is probably 2 years ahead of anyone else when it comes to SoC design, heck the Apple cores are more efficient and advanced than even Intel's core uarch.

I can't wait for space exploration to set off so we can have socialist planets and capitalist planets. And when the socialist planet fails, then they are going to blame it on the planet being shit.

>a socialist country with genuine democratic freedoms

Because these two don't go together.

democratic centralism stupid faggot and libertarian socialism is a kind of direct democracy. what a dumb arrogant bunch of witless spoiled layabouts /pol/ is.

Marxism always leads in one direction, regardless of the disguise you cover it in.

Captialist democracy always leads to imperialism

I meant pleb tier in the sense that non-tech savy people would buy/use it. Unless you are saying Apple is the choice phone for tech-savy people then I guess I concede that point

What current sociologists and marxists call imperialism isn't even a bad thing. Everyone is growing richer.

The iPhone SE is relatively inexpensive and actually pretty well-regarded by tech savvy types. Also it's the only decent option if you want a smaller screen. But something like the iPhone X or 8 is pleb for sure.

I think it's questionably a force for good.

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America’s power and relative wealth are diminished so its clear that its nothing to do with the American imperialism any longer thus the Chinese needn’t be subordinate and neither should the rest of the world. What you mean is capitalism but the Chinese restrain capitalism with all their might unlike the Americans led around by it like a weak little woman with a larger young dog.

>Mmmm, you claim to dislike feudalism yet you are laying crops on the kings soil with tools his majesty so graciously offered to you, hmm? How deliciously ironic.

The Chinese are engaged in capitalism. And the Chinese are imperialist. The Chinese are playing the same game the Americans are playing outside of their borders.

imagine being this out of touch with reality

HA, gotcha. And that's, that's the lesson you have to learn, pal. I'm indestructible, in an argumentative sense. There's no getting 'round me, no sir. No one can defeat me when I'm up on the podium, that's for god damn sure. Disobey me at your own peril.