HOWL - To Be Part of a Movement

Say what you will about the Beat writers...it would be fun and stimulating to be part of a literary group of drunks and sexual deviants wandering around the country writing.

I just read Howl out loud to myself while pacing across my living room. Something about it makes me feel reckless and alive.

Thoughts on the Beats and their body of work between 1948-1959.

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>wanting to be a rootless cosmopolitan degenerate
Go be a sex tourist in South East Asia I guess. The Beat writers did their tikkun olam with child prostitutions in Mexico, but Thailand & the Phillipines seem the modern epicentre.

How about the work itself?

This is where it ends up, shiting yourself in a taxi on the way to the old people's home.

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It's hilarious that Veeky Forums loves Pynchon but hates the Beats for some reason and they don't even seem to be aware they were one of the biggest influences on his writing.

>loves Pynchon but
Who?

The difference is that Pynchon is actually pretty good.

The arrogance of someone who has clearly never achieved anything literary in his life to denounce an entire movement that influenced countless writers is hilarious considering where you are.

Be a pedophile jew and act like a magnet for crappy wannabe writers who are willing to promote your tribe's iconoclastic agenda by writing about doing drugs, chillaxing with hip jazz niggers, and glorifying hedonistic pursuits that other members of your tribe will then enshrine in literary culture for goyish kids who will emulate that degenerate lifestyle and ultimately be less of a threat to your tribe because they had no direction or ambition.

Well, I'm glad to have made you laugh, however, I doubt any accomplishments as an individual can define the validity of one's criticism of what is essentially a pissing party of opinion.
I don't like the beats, not because they're particularly trash, but that they were merely a precursor for a style of literature that I find enjoyable. I don't have to consider them great because their scions were far greater than their source. But you can remain bitter, calling things that frustrate you "hilarious" all you like. No one here will stop you.

Virgin shut-in detected.

Stop projecting, soyboy. Anyone who expounds upon such things is far more likely to be someone who adopted that hedonistic lifestyle prior to learning about the JQ.

>le projecting
Stay mad, virgin.

Jewish oligarchic control isn't the only game in town. The Nazis secretly bailed to Argentina after the war and kept going from there and are still major players in the deep state to this day.

>it would be fun to be amongst a literary group of degenerates

Yeah I guess if you're into that sort of thing. I don't think it's spiritually fulfilling though. But I understand the urge you're getting at with that desire. For me, I'd replace degeneracy with a group of mystical/occultist poets where we travel and discuss the unknown and write about nature and God and shit like that. The celebration of degeneracy makes me cringe honestly because I find it short-sighted and juvenile but I was definitely at a place in my life where I romanticized that as well. Hell, I even lived it for awhile with an old artist collective I used to be a part of. But it's really not all it's chocked up to be. In my opinion At least.

>For me, I'd replace degeneracy with a group of mystical/occultist poets where we travel and discuss the unknown and write about nature and God and shit like that.
protip: some if not all of them would also be varying degrees of degenerate. you daydream like a homeschool kid.

Fair points. But I'm not celebrating the degeneracy. I'm celebrating the group-ness of it: they all traveled and drank and smoked on the road together, working on their individual writing projects and forming, organically I have to assume, their own culture/philosophy about life through their writing.

From my perspective, the degeneracy is something of a side-effect rather than a cause or foundational influence. They were, primarily, hedonists who had a good enthusiasm for the easy, pleasurable things in life.

Huh. I usually say chalked up to be. seems like the term can be analagous, like wedging wood underneath something to make it seem more stable. But I'd veer towards chalked.

A bunch of retarded hacks incompetently stealing from Henry Miller whenever they weren't busy choking on cock. Worst "movement" ever.

*analogous

Most beats are bad except for Ginsberg and Corso, but all of Pynchon sucks. His characters are caricatures, and not even good ones at that, as opposed to the complex portrait of Naomi painted in a poem like Kaddish.

MUH DEGENERATES

People who've read him.

>shit
Vulgar gutter talk.
>Hell
Profane turn of phrase.

You degenerates disgust me.

Don't forget NAMBLA

nah, Pynchon is good for one reason. He's fun. That's it. Everything he does is done better elsewhere, but as he is, he is a fun writer. Being better than the beats shouldn't be the high point of his career, but if it has come to that, so be it.

he's actually unreadable

no, you sound like a virgin shut-in sounds

Ginsburg is truly one of the most disgusting and subversive kikes in recent cultural memory. The picture of all those brainwashed hippie boomers watching him preach in the park embodies how deeply that generation failed as stewards, and their folly in trusting these jews and allowing them into the positions of cultural power, which they are now using to attack white people more rabidly than ever.

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funny, i seem to have read him just fine. perhaps you should visit an optometrist?

They were not nice people. They helped put their society into the ditch we find ourselves in.

You want to read somebody worthy of mention, try Hunter S Thompson.

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Who constructs long sentences with beautiful prose better than him?

What's wrong with daydreaming? OP was talking about a fantasy of his, nothing wrong with me doing the same. I'm friends with a couple occultists, they're nice people. None of us are prudes, that's not what I'm really getting at. More so a notion of hedonism being the only means to an end is something that I can't get behind. I love smoking weed and doing acid and this and that. I'm not against it, my idea of degeneracy is more so a nihilistic consumption of those sorts of things with no desire to eventually quit and submit to God.

That's fair, I see where you're coming from.

Isn't that most of the great authors? I mean, isn't that a near fucking prerequisite to be even considered a worthwhile author? What the hell kind of question is that?

You're a complete idiot.

delete this thread, quick before PewDiePie opens lit. he is going to think we are all brainlets

Do you think you're some sort of authority? lmao do you know where YOU are?

Haha you're free to have your opinion of course on the drunk/sexual deviant thing but I think we should all be making a movement to just speak our minds for/on what is right, what things make us feel the most, shit like that. I'd love to see a huge movement of people just not taking shit from stupid/mean/hurtful people and a huge embrace for peace and feeling. I'd say keep singing/reading outloud and feeling whatever is beautiful in your heart

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Well, my Father always told me in his letters scrawled inexplicably in my Mother's handwriting, "Never be an incomplete anything"
good to know i'm keeping him proud.

I think so, but many do not. And many if not most of who are often put forth as "great authors" do not write long, elegant sentences. Especially in contemporary times where short, simple sentences are far more prevalent.

Honestly that response was reflexive. I don't really pay attention to the length of sentences, so it's difficult for me to respond in any other way than incredulity. I would say, though, that Pynchon's prose is not what strikes me as often as his themes, really, a particular theme, paranoia. Without that tinge of darkness, he almost seems far too light for me to enjoy, I have had a bit too much trouble delving into MD and AtD just because it is all too light and frivolous. GR was really the only work that I found to be glorious, though one masterpiece is enough to garner my acclaim of his prowess. I would say, though, that other authors are superior. I say without any regret, that Melville is the greatest writer I have ever seen.

What if they had the same ideals and, coming up empty in the superficial world of the 1950s and 60s American, found that peace and feeling only came through substance and sexual excesses? Does that seem plausible?

I would love to find something that makes me feel alive while sober. The search continues, however.

To Everyone Else:

Next time you have twenty minutes to yourself, read Howl out loud, pretending you're at a poetry reading. I think it will provide some sort of inspiration for your writing that night.

I like Howl while I hate the Beats, but ill tell you user, that poem is fucking evil man

I think a lot about selling this experience to people through festival culture. I'd co-opt a few decent artists' ideas about how to live the good life and then rent some land and give people the opportunity to let these passions pound the earth like a flat rock in a still pond, let the waves of a new culture extend outwards into an era. Then I'd capitalise on it after a few years, put tickets up to two-three hundred dollars, sell water for $15, get music industry people to pay me to get their artists a stage, make millions off the advertising and merch. It'd be great to sell people charactertures of their beloved icons that explicitly were about dropping out, and turning on. Wonder why people don't start movements anymore?

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For me all that matters is peace and harmony and understanding. I smoke a little weed from time to time, have some drinks every now and again. It's just the bigger picture of all of humanity, the beauty that exists and the insane potential there is if we all just work together and speak our minds and live to actually live, to actually enjoy what we've all been given, rather than for fight for it. For me its music, try just listening and bobbing your head, humming to it, singing the words. I like your style too though about reading outloud

It is, but it's somehow good, no? I love Howl but it's full of a subtle degeneracy, especially for the time. It's a celebration of sexual exuberance and promiscuity, but I find it beautiful.

>I hate the Beats

Have you read more than On the Road? Dharma Bums seems closer to a mature work that captures the spirit of the Beats. Admittedly, I haven't yet read Burroughs.

>scheming to this extent
IMO you should be ashamed

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Ever seen "Taking Woodstock?" That's essentially what it was.

But I would love to recreate that experience, even though it's obviously a superficial recreation of a certain moment in time.

But when the music stops, what does one do with himself? Does he write music, write poetry or a novel?

Does he wake up and go to work? How do you turn that feeling into something tangible and, in the long-term, satisfying?

when the music stops, so too does the heart

Does the battery never run out on your ipod?

But seriously: when the moment is over and practical matters need to be attended to, is there a foundation on which a person can truly build a meaningful life?

The last woodstock recreation led to mass rapes. It was highly commercial. So many people reacted to that generation with disdain that the next generation actually tried to do things differently. But that happened on the left and right, and neither figured out why their religious experiences where so how fractured and shallow. These people then put that energy into the internet. None know why the feeling lingers for all, why there can't be a shared unity of experience in reality.

Guess we'll have to wait for another baby boom after an even greater war....

Wonder what the next collective art group is going to be like this year?

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Who said the music ever stops? I always write music and poetry and little stories, even just to myself for my own sake. I work a job and go to classes, I like learning and improving and discipline myself being responsibility and making god proud as one among many. One lives his life like a normal person and tries to be the change he wants to see in the world, being peaceful, standing up to injustice, trying to encourage others and inspire hope. We should all be doing that, there is literally not a single reason we can't all have peace. It's about standing up and fighting against those who do not have humanity's best interests in my and instead only their own. I will fight and fight for peace until my dying breath even if I have to get angrier and more aggressive against the blatant evil and ignorance I see constantly.

Lol sorry so many typos and grammatical mistakes here my bad should've read it over before posting

But the original Woodstock was very much a commercial venture. Yes, it could be said that the "spirit of the times" overcame the water shortages and exorbitant costs, but it was never anything purely peaceful and beautiful. The way we see it now, just as how we look at the 1967 Summer of Love, was retrospective and romanticized.

I agree, though, that it may take a devastating war or a fundamental shift in society to recreate a collective unity of spirit.

depends on how you define meaningful. though, the resulting answer is the same. no. there is no foundation.

What is your definition of peace? Is it uniformity of opinion? A lack of offense? Universal self-determination?

(Genuinely curious, not being rhetorical)

Exponential growth of human populations coupled with climate change. Are you super-techno-optimistic man enough to rally billions to allow billions more to be saved from starvation and death? The net of compassion can not be about abstractions. You need to condemn agents because you are not powerful enough to save them all. Just as you make the decision to stand up only for humanity and condemn all living things. We destroyed the environment to save and better humanity, and now we either win against the universe or die along with nature. It's senseless and vain, and I'd stand with you until I had to push you off the life raft to save my own. Sorry.

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So am I off-base when I plan to freight-hop and hitchhike through the western US and seek out writers and poets and vagabonds to share my travels with?

I will amount to nothing. I will have no work to show for it. But I will have lived.

sounds like you need some creative friends, OP. i have a writer friend and we drink together and talk about stories all the time. it's wonderful. would recommend.

I'm for the opposite of uniformity of opinion really, I just wish people could stop warring against each other and belittling others' ideas and making it seem like any idea or opinion is stupid and not even worth sharing/having. I love ideas and the stuff that makes people happy and want to speak out. My definition is just people at heart wanting to be treat others well.

No i'm not anything, I'm just a kid. I'm not trying really trying to save anyone, I don't condemn living things either. I'm just not going to be afraid to speak my mind even if I am wrong because I know in my heart I'm peaceful. Maybe the fact that you would kill me to save yourself is why I do what I do. No need to be sorry.

I have one really close friend and we have great conversations every time we get together. The problem is that he reads almost exclusive non-fiction. I read about half and half.

Where might I find "writer friends" to discuss literature, other than this god-forsaken site?

You seem like a decent person.

Haha thanks it actually means a lot, I feel really distraught and misguided right now so.