Nineteen Eighty-four

I know it’s the way the book “needed” to end to convey the message but it’s still an anticlimactic ending, like the circle, like the handmaids tale.
They’re always needlessly irritating

To be completely serious, it all depends if you're European or American. 1984 is a European nightmare: a small but tightly monitored lording class and a completely uncontrolled and largely illiterate peasantry. It's absolutely medieval.

Whereas 451 is an American nightmare: nobody is actively participating in society beyond what they are paid to do, there is no self-perpetuation of American values evidenced by children being dumped off into a boarding school who then grow up to be troublemakers and anarchists. Montag's wife tries to kill herself (instead of having children), the past (books) is deliberately discarded in favor of TV and new technology. But because nobody has a reference frame on how technology can be both used and abused, it's more often used for bad things (for example, fireproof homes allowing for firemen to more easily burn books), culminating in everything being consumed and destroyed by technology (the city being bombed at the very end).

The same applies to We but in regards to Russia and China. In that book, citizens wind up being rendered fleshy tools of the dear leader, incapable of being anything else other than what they are told to do. Kind of like the lower classes from Brave New World.

ITT no one respects John the Savage

Again that speaks to a broader European mentality of "no alternative". Where Europeans literally give up and let their governments/lords/etc rape them, Americans will just shoot people. This is plainly seen by comparing European books like We, Brave New World, and 1984 against Fahrenheit 451.

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is it bad that I took that character as a reference for mexicans living amongst gutemlanans and hondurans?

No but the source of that venn diagram is Neil Postman who originally made the comparison in his 1985 book "Amusing Ourselves To Death" which still holds up. His 1995 book "The End Of Education" is great as well.

Some editions compare the two at the end of 1984 such as this one.

>pic related file is for some reason 1964...

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What about the Iron Heel? I haven't read it but its of the same genre.

It's pretty good too, notably because it's written by an American it involves people getting shot. Because that's how Americans solve problems.

Well, we are prone to quick solutions.

Good in wartime, bad all the other times.

Did anybody else think the protagonist was a degenerate and sided with the state?

desu all englishmen deserve to be shot for their continued occupation of my country

You mean, Americans get shot and killed by their government. You're fully Stockholm'ed.

....

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Americans get shot by their government but they rarely go out without a fight or at least bitching and moaning the whole way down

Continent that birthed Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Lenin, Tito, Franco, Salazar, and even elected some of them talking about the government massacring civilians. Alright then.

lol yeah europe managed to go a couple decades without heinous war crimes and human rights violations and now they wanna lecture america, man foh with that, luv me some europe but dont start patting yourself on the back too much for taking a bunch of anti-semitic refugees like suddenly europeans arent bloodthirsty savages

>Americans will just shoot people

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Winston was just one man and not very tough man to begin with, so there was no way he was going to go John Rambo and take down the government by his lone self.

I'm American. 1984 seemed a lot worse to me than 451, cause in 451 you can escape. In 1984, not only can you not escape, but you can't even escape into your own mind.

Probably the best ending I've read. The book just gets better and better after the first half.

I thought it was a great ending. I was smiling and tearing up a bit imagining myself coming to love Big Brother. The excitement over the propaganda as compared to his earlier skepticism was a great touch. It made me get that great feeling of being in synch with society, going with the flow, being one with the Party. It was nightmarish but in a weirdly pleasurable way.

The ending isen't some YA trash where they would obviously defeate the evil tyrant. 1984 is about how the Party developed their own society using totalitarian methods and how far they can (and did) reach to keep this type of society. Saying the ending is shit because a tired old man and a slutty young lady werent able to defeat a entire society just makes look like you would be much better with the always happy ending of the poorly written dysthopias from YA's and amateurish writters.
>Winston wasn't gear that if it went missing the whole system would be fucked, he was just a little tooth. Orwell doesn't make a big deal of the ending because The Party doesn't make a big deal of Winston's reeducation.
This.
This2
Fucking this. This is one of the messages in the book. About the nightmarish scenario of a society where not even in your own mind you can escape the opression.

Winston isen't a Rambo or something. He is the average Joe. A passionate one, but still. Orwell's point was to show the effects of this totalitarian mindset on the average Joe.
>"But Winston is part of the Ministry of Truth and is a Party member, he isen't the proles. He ain't the 90%"
Only in work and a more enlightned minset. This dosen't make his actions or whises less proletarian than the wishes of the proles.

You would unironically enjoy being cuckolded

No I just understand 1984 on a deeper and more intuitive level than you, which is sad given that it is commonly read and appreciated by 8th graders.