>Most Romans worked a six hour day, beginning at dawn and ending at noon, although, occasionally some shops might reopen in the early evening. The city’s forum would be empty because the afternoon was devoted to leisure - attending the games (gladiatorial competitions, chariot races, or wrestling), the theater or the baths - all of which were also enjoyed by the poor (as many in government felt the need for the poor to be entertained).
Why was we not born in a more civilized age?
Owen Cox
What are you trying to ask?
Dominic Wood
why doesn't the gubbament give me free stuff.
Owen Diaz
Caring for people stopped being a thing long ago. Nowadays it's "At least you aren't in some poorer place" and usually some meme cause for people to band around which changes nothing and ultimately amounts to nothing because the cause is either useless ora meme or it requires real effort.
Chase Young
They still live this way in the Mediterranean, hence the economic situation right now.
Chase Bell
caring for people is still a thing its called welfare
Brandon Gonzalez
It's a joke that achieves nothing in many cases. I'm all about social assistance and free/cheap education and even I admit welfare has huge massive holes and has flaws in many states.
Ethan Rivera
So the Fall of Rome was due to the Italian work ethic.
Ian Garcia
Source for all this information? Would like to find out more.
Samuel Perry
I read somewhere that average medieval peasants got about half the year off. And that modern people work harder than ancient and medieval people, for less pay and less leisure time.
Julian Ortiz
fuckikg statist lefty Roman scums. i'm glad the superior Germanians knocked some sense into those cucks
Matthew Myers
Peasants can't grow crops in the winter m8.
Adrian Carter
Yes but comparing a medieval peasant to a modern working class man is just silly in that way. A modern man has many more luxuries and a much much much higher standard of living compared to said peasant
Jason Myers
Thats technology masking social decay
Jacob Evans
>And that modern people work harder than ancient and medieval people, for less pay and less leisure time lmao
Lucas King
Social decay is a buzzword
Jordan Clark
*tips fedora*
Michael Harris
You are saying those was nonexistent or much smaller back in the days?
Logan Cook
Sounds like modern day Italy
David Walker
Civility became replaced with technology.Humanity needs nature as to remain civil. Humanity also requires social contact, and I do mean CONtact.
We used to live in peace with nature, and thus the nature was peaceful with us. Now we're at war with it, so it is with human nature, too. Our natural essence being that of peace and prosperity, the chaotic cataclysm which'd changed it from thus? Tech-know-ledge-y.
And oh! The precipice from which we'hve plunged!
Then again, the world at large is PREtty civilized. Anyone who thinks otherwise is quite veritably a fool.
Evan Garcia
>We used to live in peace with nature, and thus the nature was peaceful with us. What do you define as "peaceful"?
Christopher Anderson
ai uehara is super duper cute, im sad she's retiring
Owen Ortiz
Daily reminder Rome was a nation state which cared for its "volk"
Brody Turner
Are you stupid?
Jaxson Hernandez
Not acknowledging the fact that Rome had slaves coming out the wazoo, the people didn't need to work because slaves were doing everything
Oliver Powell
> (as many in government felt the need for the poor to be entertained).
t. marxist historian narrative Why can't they try to be objective?
Parker Bennett
>mom i dont need a job look at the romans
Aiden Adams
>italian parents hate him! Learn this one trick that let him convince his parents to leech off them indefinitely!
Aaron Wood
Look up the Greeks and Dyonisia. It was a huge festival that lasted a couple weeks where everybody, even the poorest people, drank, did art, watched theater, participated in orgies etc.. The entire city would be shut down.
Brody Cook
He's actually correct in the sense that they spent less time working for the benefit of the owner class akin to how wage work functions today. Though obviously they spent more time during the day 'working' on chores and things due to the lack of technology.
Levi Scott
Don't forget that it was even easier for hunter-gatherers, who on top of having easy lives and tons of free time, had excellent health and perfect teeth. The early agricultural lifestyle was so bad most of them saw no reason to transition.
Jackson Parker
>Slaves
Now leave.
David Lewis
Alcohol is a hell of a motivator, though
Justin Jones
look up the festival of ghent (gentse feesten) ... it's practically that...
Isaac Jones
>implying slaves worked for more than 6 hours >implying slaves didn't go the games slave=worker
Adam Williams
Romans had slaves
Evan Moore
>a dozen shitty bands play >beer on plastic cups >no (extra) orgies een waar Rome maatje
Eli Williams
>Pretty civilized Define civilized. If by civilized, you mean so civilized that it's virtually uncivil, then yes.
Logan Peterson
That's discounting all the civilizational benefits that agricultural lifestyle brings. A hunter-gatherer society would never have developed to modern standards without agriculture.
Samuel Russell
We have technology that does half the job for us.
Isaac Baker
Wealth inequality. The 1% hadn't figured out an efficient system for enslaving the masses through economics yet. Technology helped. The science of maximizing profits is one of society's greatest ills.
Isaac Bennett
*tips fedora*
Matthew Sanchez
When an empire reaches a certain level of prosperity, it becomes smart to invest in the happiness of the common people. It's an investment in long term stability.
Julian Fisher
We substitute entertaining the poor with telling the poor that they'll own the boot stepping on them if they try hard enough, which is less likely than losing the lottery.
Aaron Roberts
Mining slaves died in droves
Tyler Gutierrez
Is that Ai Uehara?
can't tell cause arr rook same.
Sebastian Sanders
Jaaa
Nathan Fisher
Keep in mind that it "worked" in Rome because iirc you only were a true Roman if you were from Rome itself, and they took wealth from all over their conquered empire and funneled it back to Rome for the sake of the Romans.
The equivalent would be if the US sent 80% of its resource wealth to NYC to make all 10 million people living there filthy rich. You can do it, but you're also going to piss off everyone not from there.
Aiden Foster
This is essentially the case in the U.S. 10% of the population, around 30 million people, controls around 80% of the wealth.
Brody Walker
Wasn't there such a thing as slaves in Rome?
These guys are hinting at it too.
Carter Wilson
Well, bread and circuses certainly haven't gone away if that's what you are saying
Elijah Harris
Empires are out of fashion, which means you have a bunch of irrelevant nation-states with their own meme ideology and myths. If people were smart they would all swear fealty to the anglosphere empire and absorb their culture.
Aaron Sanders
This is such a joke, you can do that now, just work half a year in some shit job and then live with the same standarts a peasant would.
Jacob Edwards
>>Most Romans worked a six hour day, beginning at dawn and ending at noon [citation needed]
Camden Morgan
Will the proletariat ever rise and seize the means of production from the borgeoisie.
Nicholas Jones
no
Bentley Flores
Before I start I want to say that by "Romans" your green text likely refers to non slaves. Slaves came in many different strata, too, and some even owned their own slaves. Some were worked to death in mines. Some were scribes, prostitutes, or entertainers. It's difficult to approach this without acknowledging at least that.
The merciless march of industrialism, the tug-of-war of financial incentives, the constant innovation, and the constant automation of former professions, all add up to create a world where even the most skilled proletariat will have to return to school every decade or two and work long hours just to get a sustainable profession.
The richest among us, content in their financial puppeteering, especially reckless stock trading, passively-generated income from owning means of production, etc. etc. etc. are unable to identify with the proletariat's struggle, think them leeches who "just want free stuff" and wonder why they don't just risk their life savings on a small business that will likely fail, and so on. It boggles their mind that not everyone can just generate passive income, or hide their taxes offshore.
The rich regularly wonder why they are able to sustain themselves while relaxing so hard and the proletariat can't.
"Must be because they're stupid pieces of shit." they often say. The political rhetoric currently is that wealth = merit, that minimum wage and safety regulations "stifle industry" that "taxes are theft" and that Basic Guaranteed Income is "Communism." People making 90 grand a year can often be heard scoffing at the idea that paying an extra 2 grand in taxes a year could help keep the lower classes upwardly mobile. There is a particularly vile assumption that the poor are mostly substance addicted and lazy, and they never bother to trace these tendencies to vice industries that are heavily peddled in the poorest of urban neighborhoods by semi-rich Poverty Pimps.
Nolan Thomas
I make $20,000 a year and I think you're gay. I just have to wait 5 years and then I'll have around $80,000 after living expenses and then I can start my dream business.
Even if it fails, it will be not a loss to me because I plan to fully own the property that I start it on, and both work and live there.
Besides, the rich who aren't prudent will lose their wealth after a few generations.
Sebastian Thompson
Was the slave labor they employed not a factor in this at all?
Isaiah Green
>I make $20,000 a year and I think you're gay. I just have to wait 5 years and then I'll have around $80,000
I hope you're right. I've watched my parents and grandparents all go to school for NON-academic things (not humanities majors) and still get laid off/downsized/screwed over. Maybe I just come from misfortune. I want to be a programmer, so hopefully I picked right. But you have to realize, the opportunties you have are not available to most people on this Earth. You sound like you come from a middle class family in a first world country. You might have scholarships. You might have prepaid.
Almost half the world, over three billion people live on less than $2.50 a day. At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day. More than 80 percent of the world's population lives in countries where income differentials are widening. Do I still sound gay to you? Please don't fall for the myth that we're all temporarily-embarassed millionaires. Even hard working people are taken out in the blink of an eye by injuries, accidents, etc.
> Even if it fails, it will be not a loss to me because I plan to fully own the property that I start it on, and both work and live there.
Sounds like you have a plan. I hope it goes well. If you make it, and you have children, I hope you teach them frugality, charity, mercy, and love. I'm not telling you what to do, mind. I'm saying what I hope you do.
>Besides, the rich who aren't prudent will lose their wealth after a few generations.
The upper middle class who aren't prudent will lose their wealth after a few generations.
Families multimillionaires and billionaires can be complete morons for a few generations and still be fine. As long as they purchase means of production, they can generate passive income and hire fresh-out-of-college middle class lackeys to run it for them. They can invest. They can purchase machinery. This is still a bit of work, but any of the documentation/tax shit can also be handled by lackeys.
Luke Reyes
The peasants also didn't enjoy any benefits you currently enjoy like healthcare, electricity, plumbing, efficient waste disposal, education, memes, videogames, a car etc.
As our wants grew, so did our needed income
Asher Ramirez
Most Romans also made the modern equivalent of 50 cents a day. The reason they had the government provide them everything was because it would literally be impossible for them to afford the bare basics otherwise.
Jordan Scott
I don't think you realize just how much worse that inequality was in Rome though. There it was more like 99.99% of the wealth was controlled by 0.001 percent. And a large (possibly majority) of the city was slaves who had jack-shit.
William Perry
Not true. The cost of housing alone would wreck you. Even just making ends meet in the crappiest apartment in a small time is a struggle on minimum wage - let alone stretching that out over a whole year.
Also, modern society simply doesn't offer the social life a medieval peasant would enjoy. Back in the day, the whole village would band together to organise large festivals full of dancing, laughter and joy. Now it's a struggle to even make your weekend schedule overlap with a single friend's.
Aiden Miller
>I read somewhere that average medieval peasants got about half the year off. You try doing living off subsidence agriculture. Not fun, i can tell you first-hand.
Brody Ramirez
Source? Is this freeborn citizens or are slaves being counted to? Is this just citizens in Rome, or citizens in Roman territories too? Are we talking Republic or Empire? What period?
There's also the fact that houses were built collectively by communities, and resources distributed by farmers. Although this was out of necessity. But, most medieval peasants lived in small huts with dirt floors, no air conditioning, and salt was a luxury, so I wouldn't feel too jealous.
That's not to say income inequality in the modern world isn't appalling. Particularly between first and third world nations.
There are enough food resources to feed the entire world, and then some. So much of it is squandered. Wasted. Thrown in wastebaskets, etc.
Still starvation.
There are 7.4 billion people (recent est.) on Earth.
There is about $52 trillion USD in circulation alone.
Dividing one by the other, you get approx $702.70. There is enough PHYSICAL money on Earth for everyone to have 702.70 USD, if evenly distributed. Not even counting savings accounts, or demand deposits or other non-physical forms of money. Not counting cryptocurrencies either. Despite this, over half the world lives on less than $2.50 a day, and 80 percent of people live on less than $10 USD a day.
This should be at least a little appalling.
Jason Collins
I actually agree with his sentiments, but your points are correct. Medieval life was hard as fuck. Especially medical care.
I'd also add, even though you already know, that your first-hand experience with agriculture is blessedly easy compared to what Medieval people had to deal with. You get weather reports. You get modern tools. You get genetically modified crops that are hardier. You get tractors and combine harvesters and solar panels and water purification and and compost tumblers etc. etc. etc.
AND THAT SHIT IS STILL FUCKING HARD.
Camden Lewis
>working only 6 hours a day >spending the rest of the day on leisure thanks to gibs me dats >"civilized"
Eli Sanchez
And also being unsure that they were going to survive the winter and having nowhere to go except maybe into town.
Evan Nelson
>unironically using /pol/ memes it's time to stop
Justin Thompson
Roman citizens could live a life of mostly leisure because they had slaves.
You want your leisure? Bring back slavery.
Slavery = more civilized age
Parker Cruz
His anime image seems pretty ironic to me
Aiden Powell
Kinda. Working at a place like an off shore oil rig you can. Working a decent job then going back to some place with a lower standard of living you can like East Europe, Asia, Africa for a duration up to you can work.
Joshua Baker
Bread and circus is an effective way to control the poor and keep them in line. Modern day we have welfare and daytime television.
Bread and circus is not indicative of a benevolent government, it is indicative of a government aware of the less fortunate, and either unwilling or unable to actually help them stop being poor.
Thomas Evans
All of which you describe was only possible to the few free people due to all the slaves & that is as well why the roman economy collapsed and the "dark ages" arose (that actually brought more freedom to most people), after there were no more slaves around close to rome that could be easily captured.
THIS.
Andrew Robinson
Machines are more efficient than human workers, for most jobs slaves would be used for.
We could still live that life of leisure, and some of us do. A lot actually.
Jordan Cook
Uh Rome was a pretty shitty place for everyone except the super wealthy. Everyone else was a slave or disenfranchized. They needed constant loot and plunder from Italy and the rest of the world to maintain their decadence.
Josiah Russell
It's a good thing I invested my savings in straw futures.
Nicholas Murphy
>They needed constant loot and plunder from Italy and the rest of the world to maintain their decadence. Underrated point. The Roman model works great as long as you have wealthy foreigners nearby to plunder and extort.
Dylan Watson
Because for that to happen in the modern world would require Washington DC to be the city-state at the head of a global empire, with everything outside of the city walls being impoverished and with all work going towards the maintenence of a luxurious lifestyle for the city-dwellers; and with almost all of the work inside of the city done by slaves imported in massive numbers from the rest of the world. Rome proper was just a hedonistic palace propped up on the enslavement of the entire known world, and eventually collapsed when the resources demanded by the elite ruling class and the military politicians outstripped what the people could supply and the entire system broke down. Perhaps what you mean is "Why wasn't I born a Saudi sheik or a Rothschild".
Jeremiah Howard
This desu
Rome was a slave state and most of the economy was driven by it. Of course the minority citizens did alright
Henry Fisher
But with the automation now it should be possible.
Anthony Young
I sometimes wonder in a future of high automation will we still enforce workdays on the surplus population even if the value of their labor is worthless.
Like all these service sector jobs that produce nothing but shuffle paper around.