Christianity

I don't think it really made any difference. Christianity isn't the kind of religion that promotes reason and progress, but on the other hand it isn't an anti-thought religion like Islam. Monasteries preserved a good number of classical books, but on the other hand so did the Byzantines, so again it's more or less a wash.

What are you trying to say tho?

This is what protestants actually believe.. lmao and for you guys to make an idea, they think masturbation is totally ok.

Jabal Tariq (the source of the name Gibratar) had 400,000 books in his library in mediaeval Spain (al Andalus)when the great monasteries of Europe could only account for scant dozens.

It was Islamic scholars that translated Greek mathematics, philosophy,and the culture of the ancient Greeks, into arabic, which then went on to inspire the Renaissance.

Set back? No.

Push forward? Also no.

No. I'd argue that it helped (the West) along with the non-durka age of Islam.

We've outgrown it though as a vessel for knowledge and culture. It's time to move on though.

No it gave a lot of people a common cause for a while until those in power didnt want change then it began a state of decay

Naw, the timeline goes more like this.

>Greece: Great intellectually. Europe does'nt exist yet
>Rome: Great Politically. Europe does'nt exist yet.
>Pagan Dark Ages after the fall of Rome. Europe does'nt exist yet
> Christian Unity from Charlemagne and the Carolingian Renaissance starts to bring civilization back and makes the first blueprint for Europe.
>The High Middle Ages surpasses the Greco-Roman world in most ways
> The Renaissance, humanism, and the Reformation sends Europe hundreds of years backwards intellectually and politically, disregarding most medieval innovations for bullshit.
> The Counter Reformation and a new Scholastic reaction starts to recover European civilization
> The 17th century comes along as people begin to innovate on what they rediscovered from late medieval texts, causing the scientific revolution
> The Enlightenment takes place and shoddy sophists try to capitalize on the scientific revolution to justify their mercantilism and democratic degeneracy.

>>The High Middle Ages surpasses the Greco-Roman world in most ways

medieval roads were nice and straight were they?what were these greentext medieval innovations

It's a Jewish creation to help them enslave white people
Just look at Common Filth for an example of Christian white guilt

>Dark Ages
>Pagan
What's brain damage like?

Hypatia was a witch and needed to die.

Prove me wrong.

I'd say so. It certainly did a number on Europe, as we're currently seeing.
>inb4 "yurop is secular it's all atheism's fault"

if it wasn't for Christianity it would be something else to fill plebs' heads with

Ah yes, the bible, that book saying the devil has a hold over the world and his people populates the planet and is trying to force us to worship the devil, you know, this world we live in where everybody talks wonders of jesus and talks shit about Satan.

>The beginnings of the mathematization of physics with thinkers like Oresme and the Merton School.
>The surpassing of ancient logic with Buridan.
> Countless innovations in philosophy that are still relevant to this day: haecceity, nominalism, second intentions, etc.
> The scientific method getting its first breath of life for quite awhile with Grosseteste
>The creation of the University
>The rise of what were essentially proto workers unions and proper workers rights and regulations to protect workers, with the urban guilds.
>Gothic Cathedrals
> Political theories and practices which emphasized the distribution of power without also abandoning monarchy outright.
> Mechanical Clocks
> Blast Furnaces
> Vertical Windmills
> Eyeglasses
> Crossbows and Longbows
>Counterweight Trebuchets
>Cannons
>Spurs
> Women made major social advances due to the reverence of the virgin Mary. Christine de Pizzane was the most popular author in the 14th century. Women more consistently held positions of power and prestige than ever before .

You tell me.

A big part of the Carolingian Renaissance was creating religious unity in what would be Europe. Converting Pagans. During the dark ages( from the fall of Rome until Charlemagne) there were tons of Pagans around, by the time the high middle ages comes around there are almost no Pagans left.

Lol of course, those idiots believed in a man in the sky and denied scientific progress in the name of muh God. Who knows where'd we be without the intellectual pitfall known as organized religion.

>The Church preserved ancient Greek texts which became the foundation of science, humanism and democracy so...

Except for the library of Antioch which they burned for all its neoplatonic texts and when they shut down the philosophical academies established by those great ancient Greeks.

And even lynching them in Alexadria

Didnt all these innovations occur 500-600 years after the fall of Rome?evidence enough of the dark ages hmmm?

and
> The scientific method getting its first breath of life
Galileo would dispute this opinion

This is bullshit. I'm sorry, I don't hate Islam but... The part that's bullshit is the 1) le Muslims translated all the Ancient Greek texts meme, because it was GREEK BYZANTINE scholars who did this. 2) European monastic libraries had "scant dozens" of books. Which is completely false, maybe true for medieval Spain because the Muslims looted those monastic libraries.

Dark ages is a meme and any historian worth a damn will tell you that

>Dark ages is a meme and any historian worth a damn will tell you that

Acting as if there was no decline at all is just as bad if not worse than the people who think it degraded to people living in dung.

Not with Aristotle they didnt.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_of_Aristotle

i think the motives for killing her were more political than anything, but yeah in a way she was a "witch". neoplatonists have been known to practice some pretty spoopy magic

Scholasticus then introduces Hypatia, the female philosopher of Alexandria and the woman who became a target of the Christian anger that was inflamed during the feud. She was the daughter of Theon and a teacher trained in the philosophical schools of Plato and Plotinus. She was admired by most for her dignity and virtue. Scholasticus writes that Hypatia ultimately fell "victim to the political jealousy which at the time prevailed". Orestes was known to seek her counsel, and a rumor spread among the Christian community of Alexandria blaming her for Orestes's unwillingness to reconcile with Cyril. A mob of Christians gathered, led by a reader (i.e., a minor cleric) named Peter, whom Scholasticus calls a fanatic. They kidnapped Hypatia on her way home and took her to the "Church called Caesareum. They then completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles." Socrates Scholasticus was interpreted as saying that, while she was still alive, Hypatia's flesh was torn off ὀστράkοις, which literally means "with or by oyster shells, potsherds or roof tiles".[28] Afterward, the men proceeded to mutilate her and, finally, burn her limbs.

Society wise yes western Europe was hit hard. Technology and science still advanced even if it advanced slower in western Europe

>dindu nuffin

>Society wise yes western Europe was hit hard. Technology and science still advanced even if it advanced slower in western Europe

Far far slower with many old inventions and creations no longer being able to be used or maintained as civil society collapsed and it fell to the Catholic Church to maintain the shreds of unity.

>it fell to the Catholic Church to maintain the shreds of unity.
Which leads us to the Albigensian crusade and the Inquisition
Which I fear is the churches only benefit to western civilisation. Keeping a few good ideas alive despite his cronic inability to make use of them sensibly

We have Catholicism and the Church to thank for all modern science.

Well much of that is thanks to Celtiberian Muladís and Persians.

So basically a bunch of brown people chimp out and kill a white woman.

I'm gonna call BS, was scholasticus' account written some 300 years after the fact?

I'm sorry, but did Western Europe really have an organized civilized society comparable to Mediterranean Europe before this period? No, they did not so how could they have fallen 'backwards' if they were never 'forwards'? This period can only be described as a time of progress for Western Europe.

>who was Alhazen

not at all, if anything, it drove humans forward

especially after the christening of all Germanic peoples

>European civilisation prospered for centuries,

Bullshit, Greeks and Romans aside. Celts, Germanics and Wends were backwards as fuck before christianity.

The Roman Empire was already declining through the increasing power of the Imperial Guard, the excessive use of foreigners, especially Germanics, as soldiers-for-hire, and the Great Migration along with the Huns was a more plausible reason for the early "fall" of the Western Empire. (It was already very Germanic in the upper regions long before Odoaker exiled the last emperor Romulus Augustus.)

Remember that most of the invading Germanic tribes were Arian christians, most converted in the 4tth century.

>The Church preserved ancient Greek texts which became the foundation of science, humanism and democracy so....

That early Church also liberally destroyed all works written by pagan authors. Even if the context had nothing to do with paganism, such as say the lost history of the Germanic tribes by Sulpicius Alexander (the only excerpts we have is those cited by Gregory of Tours in his history of the Franks), it is as if they were afraid just possessing and reading a work by a pagan author makes the infidelity rub off or something.

That is partly why the Eastern Roman Empire, which lasted well into the late Middle Ages, also has such a shortage on pre-christianity authors.

Sorry, can't help you.

Directly no. But this leftism and 'progress' are direct consequences of spirit of the New Testament which prevailed over the masses for centuries and which is meek, forigivng and inclusive. This isn't a bad thing, but it doesn't sustain civilizations once its so hard rootted in general philosophy of the masses. You can't pinpoint those things, just like Chinese can't directly blame Confucius for influencing their stoic, introverted yet collectivist nature, but its always there. Everything that followed was built upon that, with little core changes.

The inquisition was a secular organization ran by the crown of Spain

False, the inquisition was an ecclesiastical endeavor however over the 450 years that the inquisition existed on ~3,000 people were executed meaning that inquisition had a death toll equal to 9/11 and significantly less than the Naqba of 1949

The Inquisition was found in their struggles against the cathars of Occitania and the dualist heresy spreading all over Europe.

>>The Renaissance, humanism, and the Reformation sends Europe hundreds of years backwards intellectually and politically, disregarding most medieval innovations for bullshit.

Oh look, a butthurt catholicuck.

Oh yeah, the innovations of the renaissance totally set us back and shit, oh wait no they didn't.

>>T. Butthurt Medievalist

Fascinating. But no, none of that shit compares to the renaissance and the enlightenment. Furthermore, you can take your religious unity and shove it up your ass. The "pagans" of europe should have been allowed their own belief systems.

Stop cucking up the thread, cuccboi.

>The "pagans" of europe should have been allowed their own belief systems.

m8 a lot of pagan customs survived, what do you think Christmas is?

Here they changed the placenames referring to old pagan sacred places, we have literally hundred of such examples: Wienebrugge (Wiene = Wodan) becomes Sint-Michiels-Brugge.

The whole reverring of saints in Roman catholicism and Eastern orthodoxy was thought up as a way to make christianity more palatable for the heathens. Just change Wodan to Saint Michael or Peter, change Thor to Saint Andreas etc... Freya or similar Celtic deities, often local, like the Mother of Bavay (Belgis in antiquity, capital of the Nervii), became Mary. Why do you think in several parts of Western Europe there is such a profound adoration of Christ's Mother, Mary?

fuck off catholicuck

paganism rules, cucktholicuckism drools

Catholics are the most successful pagans. You're just jealous of their numbers; at heart they're your brothers in idolatry.

And yet the original belief system was ultimately destroyed by this. Furthermore, now that christianity is declining in europe what do you suppose is going to happen to those practices that christians stole from other beliefs?

It's not pagan, no matter what you say there is a distinct difference between adorare and venerare.

Adoration is reserved for the most holy Trinity only.

Veneration is for the Saints and Holy Angels. This is deeply rooted in scripture, for example the Israelites in the Old Testament venerated the ark of the covenant. Adoration of the saints is strictly forbidden and is a mortal sin.

They'll be turned into Muslim traditions or cultural holidays

It is the whole of spirituality. Often.

I mean look at this guy:
In this thread Look what he is saying !

I mean there is a God that is sure. But they touch people's normal space to do things. Like MAD.

Why do they touch this? So that people are more weak and enslaved. And after starting such a thing it is easy to sort of fall in it. Some sort of strange obsession.

Do they need to have them weak and off their normal or a normal life so to be better able to work them as they see fit?

I adore my mother.

After she dies, I will not speak to her with the expectation that she will hear me.

Because I'm not a pagan.

Or atheist not willing to recognize that there is a God and a spiritual world. And by this hand everyone over to all sorts of mad philosophies.

I feel this could look a bit upset, which I don't intend to. Or be offensive that no discussion would be possible.

You are using the English language definition of "to adore" which has been corrupted. The official Church-recognized Latin definition of "adore" is different.

Elephants are tied to a pole when they are young. They can't break loose. But try it a lot. When they are bigger they can but somehow don't.

This must be the same problem here.

But there is a God and a spiritual world.

it certainly retarded science and knowledge
but it had many good things, to name one: the souls of the rich and the slave are equal. Before, it was believed that only the rich could get to the afterlife.

>This must be the same problem here.
So don't be dumb like an elephant and these fraudulent ties must just go.

>The Renaissance, humanism, and the Reformation sends Europe hundreds of years backwards intellectually and politically, disregarding most medieval innovations for bullshit.

>who was da Vinci
>who was Fra Angelico
>who was Donatello
>who was Botticelli
>who was Michelangelo
>who was Gutenberg
>who was Machiavelli
>who was Bacon
>who was More
>who was Shakespeare
>who was Milton
>who was Copernicus
>who was Petrarch
>who was Boccaccio

>it certainly retarded science and knowledge
This is true. But not only the fault of religion. As if only they have to think and have what is needed to follow a right path.

Being in contact with any area of science you must check for yourself if it is true what they want. Especially if they get money. There is more to say about this, that is not in this post.

Except that it didn't retard science and knowledge. It helped propel it forward.

It boggles the mind that people think the unrestrained superstition of paganism was somehow more advanced...

cultural holidays, and with muslims multiplying you can imagine they'll be demanding their share too, somewhere in the future.

>It boggles the mind that people think the unrestrained superstition of paganism was somehow more advanced...

Yes, how could Cicero, Lucretius, Socrates, Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Plato, Aristotle, etc. ever have come from a pagan culture? We all knew they were hardcore Christians

Gonna throw this out there, maybe the world held back Christianity from its true teachings.

Things like the inquisition and holding science back was from people who used Christianity as a shield and excuse for them to do what they did.

The true value of this religion is obscure and hidden, and is discredited because of the world's perception of what Christianity "is"

yeah, OK

>It boggles the mind that people think the unrestrained superstition of paganism was somehow more advanced...

I couldn't agree more. Also superstition is the right word here, the great share of our superstitions are pagan costums. The Slavic world is even more full of superstition, because they converted later and also retained a lot of pagan costums with saints replacing the old gods.

Look at Bosnians for example, just 1 century after officially being christened, they already converted to the bogomil heresy.

In Russia if you step on someones toe you have to step on the other one. Before leaving the house for a long time you have to look into the mirror at your reflection. Singing inside the house means you will lose all your money. There's tons of this stuff. And Russian women still are very superstitious. These things are all practices and beliefs rooted in Slavic paganism.

I also would like to note that all European forms of iron age paganism (Celtic, Germanic, Slavic) were very similar, both in practices and the description of their deities. Same goes for the Romans, they actually recognized Mercurius in Wodan, because of similar mythological aspects. Similarly, the origin of Santa Claus, Saint Nicolas (Sinterklaas) in the Lowlands, is a christian adaptation of Grandfather Frost, the original still exists as folklore in Finnic and East-Slavic land. In their version he wasn't exactly friendly to kids, if I'm not mistaken.

tl;dr: paganism never left us, the practices remained in superstition -still abundant amongst Slavs- and folklore

Platon >> all the rest of those guys

Greco-Roman civilisation yes, but there are many more examples of barbarian pagans like much of non-Greco-Roman Europe in those days.

Christianity brought a new set of morals that were unknown to pagan society.

As This guy said, polytheists are more then capable of advancing knowledge.

And Platon was basically a proto-christian thinker, this was already confirmed by Justin Martyr in the mid-2nd century.

>>Greco-Roman civilisation yes, but there are many more examples of barbarian pagans like much of non-Greco-Roman Europe in those days.
Yeah and? Given time those peoples would have developed on their own.

>>Christianity brought a new set of morals that were unknown to pagan society.
lol no. Try repackaged near eastern morals mixed with the mysticism that was becoming popular in certain parts of the roman empire at that time with a certain amount of absorption of earlier customs.

This assumes that christianity isn't made up nonsense, like every other religion ever.

>Christianity brought a new set of morals that were unknown to pagan society.

Actually it didn't. Everything Christianity preached was already present at the time. The golden rule was already preached by Rabbi Hillel, and most of the end times stuff he got from the book of Daniel.

Christianity is little more than Judaism+, which is itself based on a set of religious themes from Mesopotamia, Egypt and Persia, which were all pagan cultures at the time.

The Church only opposes Galileo because heliocentricity was held as scientific knowledge ever since the times of Aristotle and Galileo didn't provide quite enough evidence to be fully convincing. In fact heliocentricity wouldn't be fully proven until Copernicus came around.

No he wasn't, there's zero evidence that he had any monotheistic tendencies, nor expressed any interest in Jewish religious themes such as redemption, salvation, a redeemer that was going to start the end times in which evil is finally defeated forever, all of those are directly out of the Jewish tradition and have no comparable themes within Greek philosophy

opposed**

They no longer oppose him :)

medicine evolved from pagan magic
chemistry from pagan alchemy
astronomy from pagan astrology
architecture from pagan temple building

It's not. True religious teachings (whichever one) teaches each person how to connect with God.

False religion is esteemed highly, that is the nature of the world (to some degree) is to hide the true teachings for a false appearance.

People do it with Christianity, Islam, etc. They use the religion to maintain a false cover when these religions actually take away the false covers that wrap ea ch individual in order to establish / re establish their relationship with God.

God is not outside of you, He is deep within.

>>True religious teachings
Wow, two sentences into the post and we already have the unwarranted assumptions.

>>teaches each person how to connect with God.
And again with said unwarranted assumptions. This assumes that a deity exists, that there is only one deity, and that said deity is male.

>>False religion
All theist religions are equally false in that they all make unverifiable assumptions about existence and human life.

It is very simple. When the world took over Christianity the religion decline and so did the world.

Christianity, to its true meaning, is not what the world did to it, not is it the common and accepted perception that everyone believes that it is.

The "deity" you refer to is the origin of all soul. If you seek and ask, it will be revealed to you. This is called phenomenon

Yeah no. This is nonsensical bullshit too. Christianity as we know it didn't exist before the Council of Nicaea.

>>blah blah blah standard apologist tripe.
lol

>>The "deity" you refer to is the origin of all soul. If you seek and ask, it will be revealed to you. This is called bullshit I made up.

Fixed.

Shouldn't religion just get bound in some way so that it can't hurt anyone and be probably more peaceful to atheists?

Christianity existed as Christ taught, and did not have a label until later.

When something is labeled, it becomes a limited definitions and people cannot break out of the paradigm of a definition as easily as they would like to.

If you honestly look for God and ask for Him, you will find Him.

And all of those things were improved upon by Christians

>If you honestly look for God and ask for Him, you will find Him.

If you honestly look for Enlightenment, you will find it.

Everyone says that kind of shit about their religion, you putz.

it has, gradually
The inquisition wasn´t overthrowed, people just moved on

So what? Those things would have been improved upon anyway. And I don't actually agree that gothic cathedrals are more impressive then the polytheist temples of the romans and greeks. Frankly I find stained glass windows to be a rather boring design honestly.

It's a wash. They preserved some books, engaged in some science and philosophy, but also destroyed some other books and suppressed some other modes of thinking. I don't know if a pagan Europe would have done better or worse.

Honestly, they're straight up tacky.