Can someone recommend me some good books that go into not only the history of Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa, but delineates the specifics in how they ran their societies?
Also any recommendations in any related books like biographies of Ian Smith, race relations, economics, agricultural policies or the Boer wars/people would also be appreciated.
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I'm going to bump this out of interest
Any1 know where i can get that hartseer land documentary for free? Been searching for that shit for years now
Let's get this out of the way...
>it's been like 1000 years since apartheid ended and africans still don't have flying cars, clearly they are inferior apes
>there is literally nothing racist about rhodesia, but tfw you will never get to mow down hoards of feral congoloids with machine guns
>muh uniforms
You can't ignore that Rhodesia was the breadbasket of Africa and South Africa was on the verge of becoming a nuclear power.
Also can someone post some news from Zimbabwe or South Africa in how things are current so we can get some more bumps?
They willingly gave up their nuclear program, because the alternative was to join such luminaries as the Norks and Pakistan.
That's right, but back then they had the capacity for it. Can you say the same for today's South Africa? Its not even the #1 economy, its about 2/3's of Nigeria's gdp.
Mugabe is going to drop ded soon, thank g*d.
>ywn mow down hordes of commie fucking shits with 7.62 real fuckin NATO.
>mfw niggers still so butthurt they're in every rhodesian thread
Yes, if somebody takes exception to a bunch of white supremacist aspies incessantly LARPing and circle-jerking over their failed memestate, they *must* be a... "le dindu"
just gonna leave this here
Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa were far from failed states. Zimbabwe right now is a fail state, and with rising racial tensions, that might be the future for South Africa as well
Are you fucking retarded aspie wewuz nigger? Rhodesia was literally the biggest exporter of tobacco ON THE FUCKING PLANET in its prime. Jesus christ literally kill yourself
The operative word here being "WUZ"
RHODESIANS NEVER DIE
They just get #btfo and run away.
>#btfo
Why does that picture ignore the significant number of black South African farmers who have also been killed?
>muh white jenny-side
sorta like how everyone ignores the countless blacks killed by the ZANU
Yes, until the insane black supremacist anti-white afrocentrist commie nigger Mugabe took over the country and somehow thought it was a good idea to dispossess and systematically persecute + expunge all the white farmers who provided the entire food supply of the country for the niggers living there.
Now that those white farmers all gone, former Rhodesia has turned into one of the biggest sinkholes for Jewnited Nations development and food aid.
But the shitlibs will blame LE ENVIROMENTAL FACTORS instead for this lel
Why are you ignoring all of the blacks they've also killed?
So your highly unstable social situation boiled over, and it collapsed?
Sounds like a failed (meme) state to me.
Don't talk to me or my race's colonial offshoots ever again.
Nazi Germany, another success story.
You seem to forget that just like Rhodesia and SA it was (((outside factors))) that forcibly let the state structure collapse in natsoc germany.
Meanwhile for a nigger state to collapse it doesn't even take that much, since niggers will always end up collapsing their own pseudo-"states" in no time without any outside interference (see the current riots in south apefreaka for example) whatsoever lel
>WHY ARE NIGGERS IN MY FUCKING COUNTRY REEEE KILL THEM ALL GO BACK TO AFRICA
>WHAT THE FUCK? HOW DARE AFRICANS DO THE SAME THING WHEN EUROPEANS INVADE THEIR LAND
Really makes you think.
>pick a fight you can't win
>"i-it was le zerg rush... NO, wait... it was le ((((((((((jews))))))))))"
>hey look how successful our meme colony is, surely this apartheid system won't backfire
>okay, just because it was built entirely upon an unstable system that collapsed, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT WAS A FAILED STATE!!!
>built entirely upon an unstable system
more like built upon system at odds with globalism
Yeah maybe, or maybe it was that whole "majority being oppressed (in their own lands) by a minority elite" thing.
>le dindus LOVED oppression until le gommunists brainwashed them!
I live in Georgia and own a FAL. If trends continue, i'll have my opportunity.
would you say the average zimbabwean is less "oppressed" now that their country is starving to death?
What does that have to do with the inherent instability and subsequent collapse of your failed meme state?
it shows that Zimbabweans were actually less "oppressed" when it was still called Rhodesia considering they weren't starving to death like they are now.
And the reason it's not called Rhodesia anymore is because it was built entirely upon a shit-tier system of oppression.
>b-but we wuz successful
...until your underclass decided they were tired of it.
so my question to you is if you are willing to be on record stating that robert mugabe improved the situation in central africa?
No, all I care about is rubbing your face in the fact that Rhodesia was a failed, meme state that collapsed because of its shit-tier, white-supremacist system of government/society.
What came after the collapse is irrelevant.
but mugabe was instrumental in causing the collapse. . . just so everyone is clear you are celebrating mugabe's actions.
So you have answer as to why you're cherry picking murders of whites when thousands of blacks are also being slaughtered along with them?
*no answer
That's a tasty logical fallacy, but Memedesia was fucked with or without le wacky black mustache man.
because mugabe is just as racist (if not more so) than ian smith but he gets a free pass because he's black.
you're right in the sense that the globalists would have found some other thug but that doesnt change the fact that the situation deteriorated.
I think Ian Smith and Mugabe are both shit
I've given neither a free pass
>the only reason the blacks fought back was le globalists/communists/jews
And as to your reply to the other user, AFAIK most people think Mugabe is a batshit insane dictator and an asshole.
This stormcuck persecution complex is delightful.
you are giving mugabe a free pass because you're claiming that rhodesia would have collapsed on its own but in reality its collapse was instigated by a usurping tyrant under the blessing of the "international community."
no they would fight back regardless whether they are successful however depends on if they are supported by le globalists/communists/jews
>once you get passed the whole "constantly crushing our revolting black majority underclass with violence" thingy, you've got to admit rhodesia is pretty based and successful
my question is simply is central africa a better place today or 40 years ago?
Irrelevant. If Rhodesia wasn't shit, you wouldn't have even had the conditions that led to its collapse.
Believing that Zimbabwe is a failed state is equivalent to admitting that Rhodesia is a failed state.
Depends on who you are. The conditions are similar for most people, I imagine.
i agree in the sense that if rhodesia didn't piss off le globalists/communists/jews it wouldn't have collapsed
really?
what do you make of this image?
For Africans, honestly, yeah. They have a better chance of controlling their own future, but can't get their shit together. For white people, probably not. Treat people like shit for so long, you shouldn't be surprised when they do the same to you.
>For Africans, honestly, yeah.
k den
>They have a better chance of controlling their own future
BAHAHAA HOW MANY F*CKING IMF LOANS DO YOU THINK THEY'VE TAKEN OUT CONSIDERING THAT THEY'RE LITERALLY STARVING TO DEATH???
YOU ***ACTUALLY*** BELIEVE THAT ZIMBABWEANS HAVE ANY REAL AUTONOMY ROFLMAO
...
>Waaahh Africans are taking Africa away from us WE DINDU NOTHING WRONG
Find some rope, a tree or a streel lamp, and kick the stool bellow you actual grade A mong.
Sigh. Fucking /pol/
Please cite a source for the majority of Black rhodesians supporting Mugabe. His thugs killed and tortured native people who opposed him, his only support came from fear, brutality and foreign support.
They are now in massive debt and live by the mercy of Western banks, they have even less control of their own country now. Had a decent leader followed the fall of rhodesia, they could have been doing well now, but mugabe is utterly incompetent
>if they didn't support mugabe, they supported white minority rule!
I don't think that's how it works, lad.
/pol/ is of course spewing bullshit here as expected BUT all the people that claim rhodesia and especially south africa collapsed due to internal unrest over the whole race situation are equally dumb. If the west hadn´t withdrawn support/enacted embargos my guess is that apartheid SA would be still existing. The regime collapsed due to the high cost of financing the supression of black political resistance movements. I personally doubt this would have happened if economic sanctions wouldn´t have weakened SA beforehand.
I think the biggest mistake of SA was not initiating a gradual process of slowly emancipating the blacks. They should have acted already in the 70s when it was clear the western world wouldn?t tolerate this kind of system.
SA still has nuclear plants supplying electricity, though they are having maintenance and safety problems because of their racist corruption. Incompetent blacks get put in management positions and get paid more than the white engineers, causing the whites to rage quit and leave the country. They recently shut down one of the plants and converted the condensation tower into a bungee jump because they didn't have enough white brains to operate it safely. This in a country currently undergoing constant rolling blackouts.
They built 6 nuclear bombs before they saw the writing on the wall and dismantled them before apartheid ended. Thank God they had the foresight to do that. A nuclear armed EFF would keep everyone up at night.
Their whole nuclear program has a pretty remarkable history actually. IIRC there were never more than a few hundred people involved in it at any time, and the amount of money spent was pretty small considering what they accomplished and how sophisticated it was. SA has huge uranium resources (second only to Australia I think). The entire country could have easily been clean green 100% electric by now. Oil is pretty much the one resource SA doesn't have. Seems likely that they could have led the world in developing affordable and safe reactor designs if the program had continued.
Unfortunately all of that is impossible now. SA and Zimbabwe are such tragedies, and a lesson for us all. Things are only going to get worse in the future.
>But they can't get their shit together
Learn to read you retards. If they could get their shit together and stop allowing incompetent/corrupt leaders to rule, then yes, they would have a better chance at controlling their future than if racist whites still ruled them.
Well yeah, Israel was the only western state to support Rhodesia.
Truly best ally
>i-it's not a failed state
the late 80s and early 90s seem really eery to me, not fully out of the 70s/80s, but not fully into the 90s/00s either
>all I care about is rubbing your face in the fact that Rhodesia was a failed, meme state
>I care more about muh internet argument than starving and dying africans
Racist piece of shit back to /pol/
The tragedy of Rhodesia is that they were doing exactly this. They always knew that there would be a transition to black rule and they were working to bring that about in a responsible way.
The native blacks didn't even have the wheel when the Europeans showed up. You can't just throw a people like that into the most complicated and sophisticated social institutions and technological infrastructure ever invented. It takes time to adapt to a rapidly changing world. And Rhodesia was well on its way to being a prosperous and peaceful African success story.
I don't think that SA apartied was ever going to work in the long term. Not when whites were outnumbered 20:1, not when whites continued to rely on blacks for cheap labor in everything. It just couldn't last forever.
There needs to be a white ethnostate in SA. The country should be split up, with the whites having their own exclusive country in the Cape or something, just like the Zulu, Lesotho and other tribes do. It's the only solution.
Unfortunately I think that the remaining Whites on SA are retarded or brainwashed or both. Anyone with a clue has seen the writing on the wall and gotten out already. Without some type of White SA identitarian movement things will just get worse and worse for them until EFF kills them all and the country collapses altogether.
I don't think there's any hope for Zimbabwe. There's so few whites left there its a total write off at this point.
Why should we white people for making Africa better? And white.
i know youre a troll/shill/retard but everyone needs to understand that zimbabweans are just as enslaved today under mugabe as they were under smith and that regardless of either le globalists/communists/jews were going to dominate the country anyway. the tragedy is that all rhodesian accomplishments will be dismissed by "civilized society" because of racial politics
Bump
Most of the black folks had already made the transition in the regions they controlled. They could have given them full voting rights after surreptitiously purging the communist agitators, most were aware Mugabe and the other warlords would mean suffering for them and their families and the new administration wouldn't be too extreme as well as having international support and legitimacy, they might even have voted for the Rhodesian who pushed for their rights.
>The first Rhodesia thread on Veeky Forums
>Interesting actual discussion, a civil attitude, most arguments being limited to "No u"
>The current Rhodesia thread on Veeky Forums
>LOL GO BACK TO POL STORMKEK
stop ruining Veeky Forums
I thought Rhodesia didn't have any racial restrictions on voting, it was all about education, if you payed taxes, stuff like that. Is this incorrect?
In theory, yeah, but in practise, most blacks were kept from it because, as you might guess, they were uneducated tribals.
>The native blacks didn't even have the wheel when the Europeans showed up. You can't just throw a people like that into the most complicated and sophisticated social institutions and technological infrastructure ever invented. It takes time to adapt to a rapidly changing world. And Rhodesia was well on its way to being a prosperous and peaceful African success story.
Pretty easy if you actually put in a trucking comprehensive education system instead of doing the absolute bare minimum and throwing the burden on education on heavily underfunded missionaries. You make it seem like getting 1 person university educated takes forever. The Rhodesian government implementation of it's policies bit itself in the back often and disenfranchise the majority of your population with many shitty laws that are an extension of your colonial laws doesn't help you prosper at all.
>I don't think that SA apartied was ever going to work in the long term. Not when whites were outnumbered 20:1, not when whites continued to rely on blacks for cheap labor in everything. It just couldn't last forever.
And Rhodesia was gonna try to pull that idea off despite being worse and far less capable of doing that.
>There needs to be a white ethnostate in SA. The country should be split up, with the whites having their own exclusive country in the Cape or something, just like the Zulu, Lesotho and other tribes do. It's the only solution.
Lol no. what will the Coloured fucking get? All the ideas of a white state in SA conveniently forgets the large population of Coloreds that exist and lived in these lands for ages before whites expanded there in substantial numbers. Also Bantustans were a shit idea because the government made borders explicitly to give them self the best parts and throw the bones to the Blacks in those Bantustans and although is said those areas were "independent" it still ran them. That's why said Bantustans have so many exclaves and shit borders.
RIP based Rhodesia
Yeah, it was all evil whitey's fault.
It was defacto and the way voting was conducted was fucked up.
>The 'A' roll was the more important, with qualification dependent on meeting a financial and educational means test; voters had to be 21 years of age and possess either an annual income of 792 Rhodesian pounds or more or real estate property worth at least 1,650 pounds – this qualification was lowered to 528/1,100 pounds if the voter had completed a primary education, or 330/550 pounds if the voter had completed a four-year secondary education.
But most Blacks could not the high 792 pounds if at all, and education was very expensive since Blacks had no funding from the government let alone public schools so it was out of pockets so many kids could not complete the entire primary education let alone secondary school so you have a pretty effective filter for Blacks in role .A Appointment to the office of "chieftain" or "headman" by the government gave automatic access to the A roll as well but if you said something the government did not favour you were at risk of losing it. This was the one most Europeans fell into.
>The 'B' roll had a lower set of financial and educational qualifications; voters had to be 18 years of age and possess an annual income of 264 pounds or property worth 495 pounds (reduced to 132/275 if the person completed two years of secondary education, 198/385 if the person was 30 years or older, or 132/275 if the person was over 30 years of age and had completed primary education).
Most Blacks were in this one with a few euros here and there. See this pic. The pink land is the one you could own if you were Blacks so once that land is bought up then what? The property enfranchisement would dwindle out as one way and education was still very limited and flawed. Most Blacks fell here.
Not even addressing my point and posting a meme already beaten in the ground?
>Which roll an elector was on affected the value of their vote in a constituencies and districts. Both the rolls voted for each type of seat. For the constituencies, if the B roll total exceeded one-fifth of the total votes, it was devalued to a maximum of one-fifth. In practice, this never happened, due to the African nationalist campaign to boycott elections. For the districts, if the A roll total exceeded one-fifth of the total votes, it was devalued to a maximum of one-fifth. This was always the case.
Although both rolls could vote for all 65 seats, A roll votes were given higher weighting for the 50 constituency seats, and B roll votes higher weighting for the 15 district seats. That means if you live in a constituency as a Roll B voter you vote meant less in the 50 constituencies.
That sounds like an awesome system. We should adopt that in America, it would solve a lot of problems. Universal franchise was a mistake.
So how'd it work? Choosing the lesser evil?
There was other people bro.
Why don't you go snap your fingers and create a first world country out of thin air if it's so easy to do. Better yet why don't you go clap your hands and give the current year Zimbabweans the culture, experience and institutional skills to run their own country. Because they're starving you know. Right now, Zimbabwe is starving because they can't maintain the infrastructure the whites left behind.
Rhodesia wasn't stolen from the natives. It was built piece by piece. While they were in charge things were getting better every year. More people being educated, more people getting medicine, more people getting jobs, more participants in government. It was a process, and they were making progress.
They believed that the SA apartheid system was immoral and unworkable and they decided to take a different path. They always knew black rule was the only possible future, and they were working towards that.
The Selerus Scouts might be the most competent and successful counter insurgency force in history. Black Rhodesians and White Rhodesians fighting side by side. You don't get that kind of fighting force unless everyone BELIEVES in each other. Blacks and Whites were working together to build a future together. Rhodesia was the jewel of Africa, a remarkable success story. The lowest crime rate and simultaneously the smallest police force per capita on the continent.
Now look at it.
>The Selerus Scouts might be the most competent and successful counter insurgency force in history.
They fucking lost.
Who were the other people?
Well yeah, but they didn't lose because they sucked at war shit-for-brains
>They believed that the SA apartheid system was immoral and unworkable and they decided to take a different path. They always knew black rule was the only possible future, and they were working towards that.
By still keeping laws and polices that discriminated against Blacks and a voting policy that is explicitly meant to deny and reduce their voting power through several iterations?
>lost the war
>didn't suck at war
You lost to a retard like Mugabe. That is pathetic.
>The lowest crime rate and simultaneously the smallest police force per capita on the continent.
Post the stats or I'm callign bs.
You don't even know what you're talking about, do you?
How about you pick up a book from time to time Sambo?
>You don't even know what you're talking about, do you?
Tell you what, since you guys clearly won the war, when was the last time you held a Victory parade in Harare?
>How about you pick up a book from time to time Sambo?
Remember guys, Rhodesia, and support for Rhodesia has nothing to do with Race.
Jesus Christ how can someone be this retarded?
They didn't lose the war because they were inept, far from it, the commies were scared of them, but because international pressure forced Smith to reach an agreement
Judging by the state of modern Zimbabwe the Rhodesians were objectively correct.