Black africans never had advanced countries or empires!

How will it be a civil war if they aren't part of Nigeria anymore? There would be some Boko Haram Islamic State in the north and a Nigeria in the south.

Not that I agree, and not that its worth it, and not that it will happen, but I don't see how there'd be civil war.
Just let more people be emperor of Rome man, no civil war that way.

Well, it won't be a civil war, obviously, but it'll still be a war, that's the thing. Calls for separation often mistake cause and effect. As I said, South Sudan actually had perfectly legitimate reasons for independence but even that didn't help them.

Cool, now show me African civilizations that weren't propped up by Arabs.

>tries to discredit African civilization by saying trading doesn't count

this image triggers /pol/ because of all the empires
this image triggers Afrocentric , because Egypt isn't in West Africa

And the Middle East was only rich due to Chinese/Indian Trade going west.

I suppose the Arabs arent worth shit now.

name some important inventions by these tribes

Ethiopians invented Coffee for starters.

>Nigeria
Not gonna be a world power unless they make peace with each other; otherwise it will divide in half

So what's inbetween all this, was it wilderness and they just didn't bother with it?

But those are all secondary societies

Tribes who did not form states, usually.

Kinda like Central Asia/Siberia.

>African Empire
Let's hear about their administration, infrastructure and military organization.

Are you implying the kingdoms mentioned didn't have those?

so they wan't to be a world power in the future but are not able to repress some terrorist led by a guy who chews on a tree? this is going to be great!

Was any of those states in sub-sahara africa literate?

When there is proof to support it, yes the Bantu states existed but what records are left of them? What did they leave behind for us to learn of their way of life and achivments?

Same thing with most west african imperial systems

Perhaps, but now it will be much easier to convince other nations to help you deal with them.

Why I imagine that if American finds out that there is a nation where everyone is black, muslims and sittning on oil they will bomb that shit so fast nobody will ever register that it happened.

Ethiopia/Aksum were from very early on, earlier than most of the world.
In the West System, they weren't literate before Islam spread. Afterwards they were, since Islam requires that you read the book in Arabic, you needed to know how to read and write else you can't be Muslim.
In the Southern System, they weren't literate until colonization by the European powers, and then the process was slow, since neither the locals cared to do it, nor the occupying nations cared to make them.

But the oil is with the capitalist southern part near the coast, while the muslims and carnage are in the northern part.

Well I still think that American won't be able to hold themselves from bombing black muslims

They don't even speak about in the news, what makes you think they'd bomb it?
Most people aren't aware Nigeria is at civil war at all.
Boko Haram has like 1/10000th the media presence of, say, Al Qaeda, despite the latter being barely even functional these days. They have less members than Veeky Forums has unique posters.

To my knowledge islam spread to sub-sahara west africa f.e. region of the housa kingdom roughly 500 years ago but wasn't a majority until much later. At the same time all the written sources of these kingdoms are from 'outsider' aka europeans or arabs so they pretty much stayed in a dark age. Some cultures can stay in a dark age but be very organized like some of the south and middle american cultures - thats why they left marks on the planet and the west african kingdoms not.

Surely stacking stones very high isn't the only measure of civilization and not the only mark you can leave on the planet.

Minoa the earliest european civilization was still more advanced than these african civilizations.
>Nigeria
>world power
Without white people there would be economies in Africa.

No not the only but it is a very good sign of culture. Building a pyramid is basicly simple but after a certain size a requires hugely compley organization skills with on the other hand require math etc. Because of that these monuments are a visible proof that these civilisations had these skills. In an other example: The aqueduct of withc the pont du gard is a part of has a length of 50 km but only a height difference of 12 meter. Even if all written accounts of the roman empire would be lost we would still know that they had a fucking amazing understanding of math.

Well like I said, if they got a nation then there would be news about it. With the news comes the bombing

>Nigeria will be a world power in like 50 years.

Ahh, yes, the nearly expected Indian/Nigerian world rule.

youtube.com/watch?v=Xl0b2LGf9jM

Black africans dont have the patience required to engineer the pyramids thats why all you see is mudhuts because they are HEY IF IT WORKS WHY IMPROVE IT kind of humans.

I think you'll find nature "invented" the coffee bean.

>making it about races and individuals rather than about cultures and civilizations

Don't be that guy. Genetics exist. You are scientifically wrong.

All african cultures were basically the same as Indonesian natives culture just jungle nonsense. Also race is a factor as blacks today still have the IF ITS WORKING WHY IMPROVE IT attitudes towards anything. Those africans that live in squalor have a very alien mind compared to you to them that squalor is meh and they dont have ambition to improve their living situation because improving things is an alien concept to africans as the words similar to meaning improve cant be found in any african tongue. That is why africans will allow anything to sit there for decades without touching it once even its broken like what we see in the Congo. I am sorry user but these people are very different from you and I.

Nature didn't invent the coffee drink, moron. Nor is it as trivial as opening a jar of instant coffee do add hot water.

marijuana

>because improving things is an alien concept to africans as the words similar to meaning improve cant be found in any african tongue
You're full of shit

The coffee drink was ostensibly not invented by the Ethiopians, you imbecilic halfwitted inbred scum.

Dont be mad black user, you people are aliens to us white people no humans outside of Sub Saharan Africa, you blacks never improve things on your own you need us whiteys to improve things for you it just never pops into your brains as a colletive thats why your societies are shit because they start as violent hellholes and with no drive to improve they eventually become hell on earth like most central african countries, and Liberia. Advancement is just an idea you blacks on average cant fathom its bewildering how humans with no innate drive to improve themselves can exist though.

Normally It'd be 3/10, but /pol/ posting has become so ubiquitous, I can't even tell.

fuck of and go to /pol

Any African civilization reach peak Roman Empire civilization, with out trade contact to north africa the the middle east?

Well i am sorry black user but kindly explain why you were so primitive compared to us and the HURR SAHARA DESERT BLOCKED TRADE isnt a good excuse either as the Native Americans made civilizations in the American desert.

The only logical explanation is simply that you blacks are stupid.

you've let memes about the United States go to your head. Holy Fuck I thought this was supposed to be a history board.

>the words similar to meaning improve cant be found in any african tongue

This is some really fucking low-tier bait

but I'm not black

We know they exist it's just that they were all pretty shit and of no relevance to the development of humanity as a whole.

Kind of like the Mesoamericans or Australoids. They were there but, just wow it's fucking nothing. They had architecture and culture on par with Europe and Asia 2000 years before well done.

tier list of civilisations and their contributions to humanity are as follows:

Europe - Rome/Greece/Post-Renaissance European Kingdoms/Industrial era Europe/All of their former colonies and their achievements barring the USA (Since it broke away so early and developed largely in isolation.)
America - Modern USA
Asia - China/India/Japan
Asia - Arabic Empires
POWER GAP
America - Mesoamericans
Africa - Medieval African Kingdoms
POWER GAP
Austraila - Native Australians

Thats fucking stupid. Like saying the Chinese did not invent silk, but those funky worms did.

Anyway, Ethiopian Christian monks chewed on the beans to keep them awake in Vigils. Its later that they started crushing them for drinks. Possibly discovered it via cooking said beans.

So, would you say homo habilis "invented stone"?

Youre being purposefully obtuse by this point, friendo.

The arabs took it from them, cock goblin.

A massive jungle

>ooga booga i dun kno genetics blacks b apes yoyo

Really, you thought so?

>pre colonial North America not mentioned

Somehow I agree with that.

I'm not being obtuse, I'm just trying to point out there's a conceptual difference between the concept of invention and that of usage or adoption, my analphabetic sheep shagging prole.

Genuinely moronic individuals have invaded what was a good African thread.

One invented stone tools.
The other invented the coffee drink.
You are obtuse, and thick.

Yes he did. But let's hear about them, if he's wrong.

A brief explanation will suffice, I will even trust you and don't demand sources if it's reasonable and convincing enough.

Lack of trade
Also not that user

Again, Ethiopians, as far as it's understood, did not invent the coffee drink.

Coffee was domesticated in Harrar, which is in Ethiopia.
People there knew its energizing and made a drink of it.
They didn't roast it, just dried it. If you are arguing about the origin of ROASTED coffee, thats probably some arab trying to make it last longer to transport it.
If you are talking about who domesticates it, its ethiopians.
If you are talking who first used it for what we use it today, that is energizing drink, thats also ethiopians.

Antony Wild's Coffee: A Dark History and the Factsheet of U.S. Department of Agriculture both agree, and are solid sources that don't quote each other.

You know very well we don't have physical evidence of them.
However we know of events that occurred which would've required them.

The simplest is that the West African kingdoms taxed people, thus administration, that they had state governed river and land trade routes to move gold and salt, thus infrastructure, and that they kept conquering each other, thus organized armies.

>lack of trade

This is a meme, Black Africa has always traded with northern states, either via the Nile or via the Saharan trade routes. "Lack of trade" is also the /reason/ why Europeans developed such sea-going expertise, after the muslims conquered the middle east and blocked the trade routes to India and China, Europeans found a way round. There is literally no reason Black Africans could not have done the same, much sooner than Europeans since they were already halfway there.

Thank you, that's all I wanted.

>muslims blocked trade

They just replaced Persia as the middle man.
Absolutely nothing changed. If anything, with the Ottomans on the scene, there was one less player taking a cut, as it would've been both Persia and the Roman Empire raising the price.
Venice made an empire out of buying from the Ottomans and selling to mainland Europe, basically funded the Renaissance with Turkish money.

No, the Arab conquests cut Europe off quite completely for hundreds of years. The Ottomans even had a state policy of starving Europe of trade, they had to drop this because Europeans circumnavigated Africa and started trading directly with east Asia.

Ethiopia doesn't count, Ethiopians are white despite their black skin. Everyone knows this.

Harari and all of us in Ethiopia roast coffee. We have coffee ceremonies where roasting is a central part of the process.

Who the hell can call themselves a researcher and not realize this is a universal Ethiopian process:

No

>taxed people, thus administration
Not really, mobsters don't necessarily have an "administration" and tax people.

>that they had state governed river and land trade routes to move gold and salt, thus infrastructure
Again, not necessarily, specially if we don't have evidence of the infrastructure like roman roads.

>they kept conquering each other, thus organized armies
That's the silliest of all your claims.

It's kind of true though

What it is is, inconvenient to your racist narrative. Ethiopia stands as a refutation of your "blacks din build nuffin" screed, so you make the absurd claim that they're "really" whites. Truly pathetic.

For the first source, the guy who's name I provided. For the second, its the CIA.

Dude it's a horrible source, we roast everything including coffee.

Have you never seen a coffee ceremony?

>mobsters don't necessarily have an "administration" and tax people
Yes, they do. Your local mafia must be shit.

>roads don't count unless they are european roads
Again the same thing like the marble blocks stacking.
What you are going for here isn't "there was no civilization", but rather "there was no european civilization".
That I'd agree with. Indeed there was no european civilization in west Africa before colonization.

>you can conquer a kingdom and gain control of all of its domain without organized army
Yeah, no. Unless you have an organized army, at best you can raid in summer.

>invented

You roast today, in a world that has seen Arabs spread their culture from Morocco to Indonesia for centuries.
The two independent researches mentioned suggest that at the time of its initial use it wasn't roasted. Rather the drink was coffee bean infusion.
The idea is that the roasting was done to preserve the bean so it can travel all the way to north Egypt and Syria, where it can replace brew and wine as the social drink, since alcohol was forbidden.
If the CIA is to be believed, and they are often to be believed, the roasting process was created by the Arabs for that purpose, and later it was adopted by the Ethiopian people, likely along with Islam, and from there it also spread to Christians.

They invented agriculture independently and domesticated the yam.

Oh dear, you know full well that there is a different character to aethiopians.

"Invented" is a shit term, and asking what X group of people invented is retarded.
There are things as modern as the microprocessor that we can't agree on who invented, let alone something obscure and thousands of years away.
Saying "they used X" is enough. Using something sophisticated shows sophisticated society.
Inventing that something doesn't necessarily mean more sophisticated society, it means more luck.

>they are white, even though they are black
>except when i talk about poverty on /pol/, then they are black again

They're not like other African tribes, but then the same is true of all the other tribes,none of them is the same as any other. And while modern Ethiopians have a high admixture of Arab, they have sustained civilisation for thousands upon thousands of years, since long before the Arabs burst out of their containment peninsular.

>bean infusion
Hmm, there's a hadith commenting that Ethiopian slave was best at making infused drink.

That would be odd since coffee wasn't known at the time of Mohammed (piss be upon him) and because stimulants are forbidden under Shariah (albeit many but not all modern muslim groups consider coffee to be permitted)

Coffee was known long before the initial Arabic conquests and organization of Islam, and has always been permitted.
Without coffee, what do you drink with your mates in North Africa and the Levant? Beer and wine were a no-no, and drinking straight water was poor form and potentially bad for your health.

The stimulants thing is about harder drugs, and came later as far as I am aware (no mislumo tho).

It's not high
How do you really believe this?

>The earliest credible evidence of coffee-drinking appears in the middle of the 15th century in the Sufi shrines of Yemen

There are muslims today who won't touch coffee, idk how prevalent this attitude is within Islam tho. But the idea that Mohammed (piss be upon him) had anything to say about coffee is just wrong.

The earliest credible evidence of Australia existing are even more recent, but I think we can safely assume its been there since before white people wrote about it.

Coffee is a bean, a berry. If you are a hungry person, and there are berries growing in the bushes near, you'd probably try a handful. If you have a handful of coffee beans, you will probably notice some effects.
The idea that this didn't occur is stupid to me. Coffee is sure to have been known to locals.

At least you didn't quote the goatherd legend. Goats don't eat caffeine. They are actually used to clean tea plantations in China, since they eat everything without caffeine in it, leaving the tea alone. A goat is more likely to eat the branches of the plant than the beans.

Are you retarded? Serious question.

No, I am not.
Do you have any arguments to present, or just insults? Serious question.

Do you imagine that people just guess as to when various plants were domesticated? I mean, the first written accounts are Sumerian, so I suppose you think scholars are just guessing when they say wheat was domesticated thousands of years before Sumer, afterall it's not like archaeology is a thing, no-one can ever know about events that happened in the past!

Okay, when was coffee domesticated? Find me a good peer reviewed academic source based on archaeology and carbon dating or genetics.

Not that you need domesticated coffee to drink an infusion of it, but still, I'd love to read your sources.