ORTHODOX CHURCH ON IMMIGRATION AND USURY

funny how they've meshed Marxist theory into their religion. Guess that Soviet education still has a hold on the older generation.

His point is that the Church of Antioch is filled with Arabs you mong

>All the LARP'ers are Catholics

And Orthodox.

>muh Constantinopolis!
>muh Russian Empire! muh Whites!

disregarding tradition leads to degeneracy such as anime

Catholics are the ones playing D&D with foam bats, Orthodox are the ones whining because someone's costume has a fastening that wasn't invented until four years after the war they're re-enacting. At the end of the day, it's all LARP.

The Church of Antioch is extremely small, even for Orthodox denominations. The overwhelming majority of the Orthodox denominations are comprised of Greeks and Slavs and their progeny: in essence, it has become a ethnic religion, embraced less out of actual devotion and more as a cultural marker.

The Church has been opposed to usury since forever

Not in the West, actually. It's mostly converts.

Nobodies stopping the Dutch from wearing wooden shoes. Or whatever.

I don't think any sane person favors what the Bolsheviks did

I forgot that aside from being autistic LARPers, Orthodox are also known for being cringeworthy reactionaries.

on immigration
>no mercy for poor people fleeing war.

on usury
>liberal economics is bad, just ignore that countries with liberal economies tend to have higher standards of living.

Greece and Russia are doing just fine, why do you ask?

how difficult is it to convert?

It's actually pretty large in America, relative to the other Orthodox

You must remember: we didn't have colonialism. Considering that we're doing boss. Not as well as Protestants, no, but our conversion is harder and when we *do* get converts, we retain them for life in virtually all cases.

Your "converts" are literal history buffs (i.e. the very definition of LARPers). Aside from them, your only new members are the offspring of third generation immigrants.

They're using Marxist terminology and logic. They're claiming that any value not derived from human labor is fictitious, which is how Marx described it (fictitious capital).

It's not hard if you're willing to read a lot of books and consistently attend liturgy. It will most likely require a lot of effort on your part though, and can take a year, but there is not set method to converting. Generally the easiest parishes to convert through as missions, as their priests are there mainly to minister to converts. But Antiochian parishes in the West are also mostly converts, and that includes their clergy, but they tend to also be stricter and the most traditionalist.

Christianity is an historical religion, the idea that the Church stays in the past has to do with her legitimacy.

The Church said that long before Marx. Aquinas is probably the one who elaborates the most on it. This is why usury was prohibited.

Very, because as one user said, these churches tend to be 'ethnic clubs'. They are very insular.

Imagine a white person trying to become a member of a black church. Sure, they can attend services, but they won't "belong", which puts many people off.

You're absolutely a liar, I'm a convert and they're extremely welcoming.

do i need any familiarity wth russian or greek?

You're absolutely a liar. You're a shill, fuck off.

What country? How did you go about it?

Nope. They might do part of the liturgy in another language though, but the priest can give you a bilingual book translating it. And if you go to an Antiochian parish, I guarantee you it will al be in English. But no matter what parish you go to, converting does NOT require you to learn another language.

misunderstanding economics nine hundred years ago can be forgiven. Not changing those views in light of overwhelming evidence can not.

Its like insisting on a young earth

America

I went about it by going to a service. The priest came up to me and talked to me and then introduced me to the parish. He told me to come to a study every week if I wanted to learn about the faith in depth. Then I told him a few weeks later I wanted to convert, and so he gave me some books to read and eventually announced me as a catechumen when he thought I was ready, and I got chrismated on Pascha.

>ORTHODOX CHURCH ON IMMIGRATION AND USURY

Who gives a shit, the Orthodox establishment is even more irrelevant than the Catholic Church

You don't understand, for the Church it is a question of morality. The view isn't going to change anymore than the Church's stance on abortion will change because "overwhelming evidence" suggests there's nothing wrong with it.

a better example would be refusing a blood transfusion because your church has a moral objection to it, and then issuing a public statement condemning blood transfusions and proposing " a Christian alternative" to live saving medicine

>poor people leaving war

There's no dogma against blood transfusions

If our moral doctrines changed with time, then how could we call ourselves the Church founded by Christ? We'd be the Church of the current year.

Classical E. G. Neo-Liberalism

...

Show me when and where the Church decided that the present value of expected future cash flows isn't real, and what logic they used to determine this.

And why would Aquinas' writings have an impact on the beliefs of the Orthodox church?

>admitting to the world that you're retarded

Aquinas is just the guy who elaborated on it the most, the injunction and the reason had been there since the beginning.

Cash is not a product, it is just a medium of exchange.

sounds interesting tbqh thanks

>tfw might find God through Veeky Forums

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_missions

>There's no dogma against blood transfusions

It was a theoretical example.

>If our moral doctrines changed with time, then how could we call ourselves the Church founded by Christ? We'd be the Church of the current year.

Well then you have a clear quandary, do you follow moral doctrines clearly contrary to reason because they supposedly stem from Christ?

A Catholic would say that if reason proves a doctrine wrong they must have misunderstood something, though there loath to ever admit a doctrine might be wrong

Pure cringe.

Orthodox scum will burn in hell hotter than the worst fedora

warosu.org/lit/thread/S6706189

We're Orthodox, not Catholics. Amending or even having a "new understanding" of doctrine is forbidden (and that itself is doctrine).

>Orthodox view on usury just happens to take a Marxist stance

The backpedaling is great.

econ pro tip: enabling a credit system benefits everyone by creating a wealthier society.

Medieval theologians had no clue what they were talking about when it came to economics. Their opinions on the matter should be totally irrelevant to yours because that field of study hadn't even been invented when they were writing.

The Church has always had this stance. In fact, the Catholic Church did too throughout the Middle Ages.

The stance predates even Christianity, Aristotle espouses it.

>We're heretics who will burn in hell, not Catholics

Money, including fiat, is a commodity in and of itself. This was obvious in ancient times when things like gold dust and salt were used in lieu of minted currency.

>We're Orthodox, not Catholics.

I am aware of that

This is true, its sad the orthodox church is unintentionally hurting its members by forbidding them to participate in a vital aspect of the economy based on an ancient understanding of loans and interest

>orthodoxy
>amending doctrine

>The Church has always had this stance

Only in theory. In practice, the Church establishment - Orthodox or Catholic - has always been noted for its irreconcilable thirst for temporal power and accumulation of wealth, all while preaching voluntary poverty and moderation.

...

Okay Dawkins go shitpost on twitter

>The Church has always had this stance

What's the earliest evidence you have to support this statement, and what ethical argument did they make to justify this stance?

>"valid criticism of my church must be shitposting"

Typical Christcuck.

the old testament

Monks have pretty much always been the heart of our Church, and there was never an issue about decadence with them, that I assure you.

We do love gold and things like that for worship, but so? We worship him with all the gifts of the Magi. And the temple of the old testament was certainly ornate.

just a majority of the world's fourth most populous country

This, pretty much.

I don't think this has to do with condoning the actions of the Bolsheviks, this has to do with political unity. Even the Communist Party of Russia today now strongly supports the Church.

>poor people fleeing war

>Greece and Russia are doing just fine, why do you ask?

Based ignoramus.

You do realize that the reason Greece is as shit as it is is exactly because of the economic system this statement goes against, right?

And Russia is doing more than fine, what with them seizing Crimea and now the second largest member of their embargo leaving the EU

>Russia has the most college-level or higher graduates in terms of percentage of population in the world, at 54%.[311]

>>I've never been to an Antiochian parish

Thats not really that surprising given that there are less than 2 million of them world wide. Antiochian Parishes are rarer than Mormon and Jehovas witnesses for instance.

It seems rather odd you would use one of the smaller jurisdictions as an example

>It's actually pretty large in America, relative to the other Orthodox

They are less than 1% of all orthodox Christians in the US how on earth do you figure that to be pretty large?

hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf

>ark of the convenant was decorated
>therefore decking out priests and temples in gold and precious metals whilst people are literally starving to death is good.

They're smaller because their native population was conquered by Muslims and never won independence. But outside of it, in the West, they are building missions very quickly, several every year, and many are Western Rite. Their parishes have grown about 400% in the U.S. over the past few decades, mostly from evangelism.

8%, actually, if you factor by Church attendance instead of just identification.

Not just the Ark, but the entire temple was decked out

Spot on. Easily exposes the problems with mass immigration with actual arguments without resorting to racist stormfag rhetoric. /pol/ could stand to learn something from this.

Reading this has let me depressed though.

-I really like the Orthodox Church culturally and want to be part of it, but the idea of a god actually existing is silly to me and I couldn't believe in it even if I tried. Even as a kid, I stopped believing in Catholicism the moment I started being just the slightest bit introspective.

-Likewise, I would love to leave this shithole of a country and enjoy Russian culture, but it'd be hypocritical of me to do that when I don't support mass migration and don't consider myself better than other people who would be willing to do the same as me. What's more, I'm not even a low-skill worker, I'm an engineer, and I would hate it if I was accepted in order to get lower wage engineers over native Russian engineers because it's a policy I can't agree to even if it benefits me.

-Even if I moved there, I would never completely part of the culture, no matter how much I tried. I would just be a silly foreigner wannabe Russian.

-I will never get another chance at life, so I either live my whole life in this shitty country attempting (and failing, I've pondered this for quite some time but it just isn't feasible within a generation) to get it back on its feet, or swallow my pride and live where I want like a shallow hypocrite the rest of my life.

Might as well end it today. Sorry for the blog, Veeky Forums.

Aww, someone triggered :(

That's it, that's ll I needed to hear. If I'm gonna leave the Lutheran church, I'm converting to orthodoxy. Enjoy your refugees, papists!

So what made them decide to keep that prohibition? Why didn't they just toss it out like they did with so much of the other OT crap?

God bless the Orthodox Church!

Post hymns n shit!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=dTnxFgmQLKc

>wanting to be a Russian

here rt.com/business/345022-russia-far-east-free-land/

Now shoo, go see for yourself how wonderful Russia is and maybe you'll learn to appreciate what you had where you are now.

I'm Latin American, and Russia has twice the GDP per capita of my country.

It's not about economics though. I don't mind living in a poor country as long as I don't have to fear for my life just for walking at night.

It's about the culture. I have similar feelings towards pretty much all countries in Eurasia, I'm just more infatuated towards Russian cultures because its elements resonate with me more than other cultures'. I would also love to live in Spain, Italy, Czechia, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, (peaceful) Syria, Iran, Azerbaijan, etc. I wish I could look at my city and see thousands of years of history, and look at my people and see a shared heritage and a cultural identity.

The New World was a mistake.

I feel better after posting the last post though, I needed to vent a little. Once again, sorry for the faggotry.

Confirmed true catholic and apostolic church.

Gates of Hades BTFO.

Papists BTFO.

There is an Atheist FAQ here, please read it.

pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x

I will pray for your life, user. Please come into our fold, our love. God wants you to come home.

You have no idea.

>I'm Latin American, and Russia has twice the GDP per capita of my country.

ah, that makes more sense

>I don't mind living in a poor country as long as I don't have to fear for my life just for walking at night.

Then don't go with Russia. I'd say try Peru if you want nice culture and history without going too far.

>They're smaller because their native population was conquered by Muslims and never won independence. But outside of it, in the West, they are building missions very quickly, several every year, and many are Western Rite. Their parishes have grown about 400% in the U.S. over the past few decades, mostly from evangelism.

Read my post, I wasnt arguing about their size I was simply stating that they are a rather poor representation of the church given that they are so very small in the US and the World at large.

Statistically they are literally an outlier.

Side note have you got any good reports or documents on that as in what they are doing? all ive seen is them having an internet radio station likewise there doesnt seem to be much info on the actual sizes of those parishes.

>8%, actually, if you factor by Church attendance instead of just identification.

So 92% of Orthodox being non antiochian makes is something you consider big? Thats hardly helping your case

Most Antiochians in the West are converts, so yeah, 8% of the Church being converts is something I consider big.

>Not just the Ark, but the entire temple was decked out

The temple Christ himself is going to build during his second coming.

Why not have 1000 wives and concubines while you are at it.

Why do priests bless weapons? Is that biblical?

>Most Antiochians in the West are converts, so yeah, 8% of the Church being converts is something I consider big.

I can see your issue here, Im not saying that having a church which doesn't suffer from ethnic problems (which is a serious issue for the church now and histrocially) isnt significant or important only that as this group is such a small percentage of the Orthodox faithful worldwide and in the US it is faulty and dishonest reasoning to hold them to be representative of Orthodoxy.

As a result its pretty unreasonable to expect people to be familiar with them or to view other orthodox churches as being simmilar.

Also do you have any information of the evangelism efforts/?

How different is Orthodox service from Angl*can?

It's not really a problem, the only reason it is so "ethnic" as you like to put is, that the Orthodox Church was never backed by colonialism.

>Some 70 percent of Antiochian Orthodox priests in the United States are converts, according to Bradley Nassif, who, as a theology professor at North Park University in Chicago, is a leading scholar of the religion. A generation or two ago, Professor Nassif said, converts made up barely 10 percent of Antiochian clergy.

nytimes.com/2009/10/03/us/03religion.html?_r=0

>As a result of its evangelism and missionary work, the Antiochian Archdiocese saw significant growth between the mid-1960s and 2012. The archdiocese had only 65 parishes across the United States in the mid-1960s and by 2011 this number had increased to 249 parishes.[5]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochian_Orthodox_Christian_Archdiocese_of_North_America

youtube.com/watch?v=yeRXbLAIPcU

>It's not really a problem, the only reason it is so "ethnic" as you like to put is, that the Orthodox Church was never backed by colonialism.

It is a serious issues, so much so that they had to a have a council on it.

>never backed by colonialism.

Nonsense Orthodoxy had the Roman and Russian Empires meanwhile groups like the JWs and Baptists and even groups like the Buddhists and Mormons managed to spread beyond race and ethnicity despite not having imperial backing

Even in my country where Orthodox have been here for over 100 years nearly half of all parishoners are born overseas.

>nytimes.com/2009/10/03/us/03religion.html?_r=0
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochian_Orthodox_Christian_Archdiocese_of_North_America

I know those sources see my question in I actually want to know what they are doing. Saying "evangelizing" doesnt answer that.

Just to clarify that last point. Merely saying there are more converts and a story about a man seeking out the church on his own dont really answer the question of what the Antiochians are doing when they evangelise

Also to clarify do you think it is statistically reasonable and honest to hold the Antiochians as being representative of Orthodoxy as a whole in their approach to evangilisation given they are between >1-8% of the of Orthodox population in the US and even smaller world wide?

>It is a serious issues, so much so that they had to a have a council on it.
That was because some parishes were being strictly ethnic over a hundred years ago, that doesn't happen anymore, no parish designates which ethnicity is to go where.

>Nonsense Orthodoxy had the Roman and Russian Empires
Neither Byzantium nor Russia was a colonialist power.

> groups like the JWs and Baptists and even groups like the Buddhists and Mormons managed to spread beyond race and ethnicity despite not having imperial backing
It's a lot easier to convert to them, and they have power retention rates for converts: while we might get drops outs from people raised in our faith, our retention rate for converts is extremely highly.

>I actually want to know what they are doing. Saying "evangelizing" doesnt answer that.
They build missions and host community projects and volunteer works and encourage parishioners to witness the faith.

Converts in Europe are more handled by Russia and Romania, but they have much better activities there, including Western Rite parishes.

We have plenty of missions.