What went wrong, Veeky Forums?

>socialism was a downgrade from Batista

I don't have a favorable view of communism/socialism, but that's fucking wrong.

Can you please tell us more?

BRAZIL WAS GREAT

youtube.com/watch?v=RB4tN2LnDfI

Why so many different types of mexicans so easily drawn to actual socialism?

>inb4 socialism
That doesn't defeat that fact that it was actually socialism.

NOT REAL SOCIALISM!

Phew. I'm glad I took that out of the way. Now we can proceed to discuss how capitalism has failed once again and how socialism is more relevant than ever.

Check-mate, capitalists.

Capitalists BTFO XD.

How to differentiate between real and fake socialism? If it works, than it's real socialism. If not, than it isn't.

What if we try a thousand times, always resulting in mass casualties, and it it still doesn't work?

Blame capitalism. Rinse. Repeat.

They didn't know how to use the oil money to create a strong economy and instead just used it to fund their populist shit.

Socialists never learn, they just kill off the high IQ borgeous then beg them to help out after the economy collapses. I never understood why it's perfectly acceptable for people to consider themselves socialists and not be considered evil (100,000,000+ murdered) but being a neo-nazi (11,000,000) is literally considered the most evil ideology?

like there was manufacturing, or agricultural in Venezuela before chavez.

People here talk like Venezuela was a paradise before 2000. It was the same third world shithole that is now just with a worse inequality gap.

>Hurr
He didn't invest shit on developing the economy, he literally relied on oil to pay for everything and made no investments on ensuring future economic stability.

>B-but muh bolivarianism
Suck a dick you mongrel dipshit.

what is the point of your pic?

>Muh shithole
He drove the country into an economic sinkhole. Before Venezuela had a future, the oil money could've fueled actual growth and development but instead it was wasted on his shit policies, they wasted the opportunity and now they are paying the price.

>Income inequality
Literally has no bearing on anything at this point. All the pretty populistic bullshit in the world won't save you from poor economic planning.

That he wasted the period where oil money was abundant and left the economy to rot.

If your policies don't have the future in min, but rather getting popular support, then they are idiotic.

And also because you made the claim Chavez gave them industry. Which is fucking retarded.
It's time to stop.

>that face

Socialists.

Socialism doesn't mean totalitarian dictatorship by default. But since most countries that are prone to revolutions are instable in general and don't have any effective counterchecks for violent takeovers, that's just what most socialist regimes end up looking like. Plus socialist policies further a dictator's popular support (or silent approval) by a ton compared to just admitting that yes, the new regime is a fuckton worse than the last.

Also, the Soviet Union heavily urged other socialist nations to follow their strand of socialism and forget all the alternatives, under threat of violence. This was proved in Prague in 1956, and shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that it helped mold how the future would look like for socialism worldwide.

Also, regarding USSR: if the state apparatus lies to its people on a number of things and runs a totalitarian form of government, chances are very high that they're lying about them being socialist, too.

over reliance on oil alongside retarded money games created a tenuous situation that exploded into this shit. Although socialism would have created pretty shit conditions anyway after time, the reason it got this bad was not socialism but rather government incompetence.

The main thing right now is the drop in the price of oil.

The secondary issue as much as I can gather is foreign currency reserves global capital hostility to Venezuela. With the collapse of their main trading gate key in oil they have diffuculty importing things. This is a HUGE problem because like most modern countries Venezuela depends on certain foreign imports to keep the whole of their economy going. If you want a tractor for example certain machine parts if not the whole machine itself are not made locally. The problem is that they don't have a lot to trade to back up the value their currency for exchange with Germany or Brazil for those tractor parts. Normally the solution to this sort of situation is to make loans but global capital/investors really do not like or trust Venezuela.

The currency has also gone crazy due to the government's attempts to fight hoarders by instituting price controls. The exact nature and origin of this is still confusing to me but I do believe it's a really issue despite what the MSM would want to report. There was some sort of initial spark that caused local economy difficulties such as local farmers not being able to compete with global firms. Richer hoarders would buy up controlled imports (the government's response to not being able to compete with foreign products) and start selling them at marked up prices on a growing black market. The end result of this war between regulation on money and imports and rich, corrupt, or connected opportunist was a broken exchange rate and inflation. This makes Venezuela even more distrusted and isolated by the global market.

They need imports and foreign capital to keep things running smoothly on the quality of life they expect but it wont come. Oil used to be the golden ticket that would never be turned down but it's fallen through recently and at the same time they've fallen on hard times with a drought.

*might all be wrong. Not an expert AT ALL.

Should've stopped spouting retarded demagoguery about how the world is against you and you are bulwark against evil capitalists theb.
Maybe instead fucking invest in internal infrastructure and set up a stronger industry.
Maybe even tried to get good relations and deals with other nations instead of antagonizing everyone except the other demagogues of latin america.

But no, he had the golden ticket as you said, and thus all that could've been done wasn't because of pure unadulterated ideology.

By the way when I say you I meant the venezuelan government, not you the poster.
Sorry if it causes confusion, I just tend to rant as if I'm speaking to the target of my discourse

As Marx himself has stated, socialism will always require a violent revolution and dictatorship of the proletariat, because other than the useful idiots intellectuals and poor people nobody would be willing to hand over their rightful earnings and property to the government or "the people"

equalism and money
People know we can't be equal yet goverments keep on shoving it down our throats

>Cuba and Argentina were doing great until socilist policies were implemented
Let's forget the fact that Cuba is embargoed by the motherfucking USA

This was a corrupt country even before Chavez
Everything went downhill after Rómul Betancur and the oil money squandering began.

When will this meme die?

>embargoed is the same thing as not being allowed to trade with the rest of the world, say EU, latin america or ASEAN
you know nothing

Decades of shitty economic policy. Socialism had nothing to do with it. The economy was always shit and only got worse over time. A collapse was inevitable.

>Embargoed by one of the biggest and nearest superpower will totally not put huge dent in your economy

>completely oil based economy
>NATO fucks with oil prices to destabilize Russia
>Venezuela falls as collateral damage

>Socialism had nothing to do with it

>we have billions upon billions of dollars in free money
>still manage to turn into Venezuela

Nigga when Saudi Arabia is doing a better job than you, you know you got problems.

so? why did those caribbean retards would not trade with the resto of the world? the only recipients of the embargo is the AMERICAN companies.

>NATO fucks with oil prices
did not know that saudi arabia and iran were also in the NATO

*are

Saudi Arabia is the one fucking with oil prices. They stock a huge surplus in reserve, then USA and UK tell them when to unload it all on the market, tanking the prices while collecting a huge injection of cash.

Saudi Arabia might as well be, they are in bed with England and America.
Although its hard to say who's on top.

an old latin american thing called caudillismo mixed with socialism as perceived by literal imbeciles

>as perceived by literal imbeciles
how's that?

With all the bombastic news articles stating Venezuela proves socialism is retarded, can someone tell me what are the differences between UK and Venezuela?

Both seem about the same in terms of socialism.

No money or connections. It is hard to make those when US motherfucking A won't trade with you

Chavez, to begin with. An army captain with infantile political notions. Or Maduro, a former bus driver.

>Former minister Gerver Torres points out that in 1998 oil represented 77 percent of Venezuela's exports but by 2011 oil represented 96 percent of exports. That means today only around 4 percent of the goods that Venezuela exports are non-oil products! The Venezuelan economy relies almost exclusively on the price of oil and the ability of the government to spend oil revenues. This will take years to reverse because of item two below.
You should shut the fuck up if you have no clue about what you are talking about. Venezuela was slowly moving away from oil,and when Chavez came oil became everything.

Do they seize foreign companies in the UK?
Do they support foreign commies in the UK?

>No money or connections
So why there are many spanish hotels there? No work ethics you mean?

So the only difference between Venezuela and UK that you can name is that UK allows for foreign investors to setup companies in it?

>Embargoed by one of the biggest and nearest superpower will totally not put huge dent in your economy
Franco was embargoed by more countries,and Spain grew way faster than Cuba in the same period. Castro just turned Cuba into an unproductive shithole that relied on Soviet aid

You are trying very hard to rationalize here, instead of admitting that the USA starved Venezuela, while Saudi Arabia tanked oil prices (on behalf of the USA).

>Both seem about the same in terms of socialism.

Venezuela fixes prices,the UK doesnt.
Venezuela siezes private property,the UK doesnt
Venezuela controls imports and production,the UK doesnt
Venezuela bans and expropiates companies that show disagreement with the system,while the UK doesnt.
And the list goes on.

Many countries have nationalized industries.
The thing with Venezuela is that Chavez expropriated citizens private properties and made a show of it

No.
You're the one trying very hard to circumvent the facts. Both are corrupt countries sporting themselves as welfare societies.

In which proportion? More than 50% are state companies? less than 50%?

>Saudi Arabia is part of NATO
fug

>the USA starved Venezuela, while Saudi Arabia tanked oil prices (on behalf of the USA).
Iran incorporating into the market without sanctions had quite an impact on oil prices. Things like engine efficientcy,makes oil less valueable too. Besides,the "target" was Russia,not a poor shithole without toilet paper

The facts are these:
1. Venezuela is an oil based economy.
2. The USA doesn't trade with Venezuela and wants to see it break down.
3. The oil prices dropped rapidly about the same time Russia decided to be active, caused by Saudi Arabia, a USA ally, selling its oil reserves.

Thats where facts end, and I feel you are moving further away from them when talking about spanish hotels and toilet paper prices, than you need to. They paint a pretty picture by themselves.

Venezuela was collateral damage, a pleasant surprise, a small fish that also got caught in the net with the big one.

>In which proportion?
90% of the productive economy is owned by the state in Venezuela,mining,oil and energy production,mostly.

> The USA doesn't trade with Venezuela
but it does
ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/venezuela

>a pleasant surprise, a small fish that also got caught in the net with the big one.
The US doesnt give a shit about Venezuela. Their oil quality is pretty low,and they produce nothing of their own.

Was Spain more tied to USA in terms of trade than Cuba?

Excuses are like assholes user.

I eat them for breakfast.

>the usa doesn't trade with venezuela
Source: trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2006/september/tradoc_113462.pdf

Stop blaming others for those caribbean subhuman's faults

And what's your conclusion about state ownership of companies?

>1. Venezuela is an oil based economy.
True,Chavez only made it worse,killing other productive sectors.
>2. The USA doesn't trade with Venezuela and wants to see it break down.
False. The US is one of the main trade partners of Venezuela.
>3. The oil prices dropped rapidly about the same time Russia decided to be active, caused by Saudi Arabia, a USA ally, selling its oil reserves.
You are forgetting about Iran,which now trades without sanctions,and I doubt that Iran planned on sabotaging Venezuela. The Saudis are just desperate to kill the oil competition,as they managed very poorly their economy.

The US was 50% ofbthe world's economy at that time. Everyone relied upon themm

>what is Roosevelt's imperialism
>what is the naval blockade of 1902

The USA very much cares about Venezuela.
And a bankrupt Venezuela being added as another state in the USA is very much in the power politics plans of the people in charge there.
Very hard to do, but very worthwhile if possible.

>And what's your conclusion about state ownership of companies?
In terms of production it was awful. Mining completly die,and most of the oil money was spent very poorly. They also killed the little industry that the country had,and made Venezula rely just on oil

>2016
>still bringing examples about 114 years before
you well just can bring a knife to a gun fight and die only to make a point

The Treasury Department, the Commerce Department and the State Department list Venezuela as embargoed.
What are these money going there?

pfffff
in the cold war Venezuela was a more or less valuable ally to contain Cuba (that´s why Venezuela has F-16 jets), but now? another state? wtf?

>The USA very much cares about Venezuela.
Not really. Venezuela is a very small player even at a regional scale. The oil of Venezuela is trash tier,and is the only thing that Venezuela produces

>list Venezuela as embargoed.
No, they list some venezuelan officials and some of their relatives as accomplices of drug trafficking, that's very different. those people alone are not the whole country

>What are these money going there?
Venezuela exports raw oil to America and the US treats the oil

>implying America would even accept Venezuela as a state if they asked to join

We're not that fucking stupid, user.

Has the USA ever rejected anyone wanting to join?

Canada. Multiple times

>Has the USA ever rejected anyone wanting to join?
Puerto Rico

>Canada. Multiple times
Source?

We're in the process of telling Puerto Rico to fuck off, and we made Utah give up polygamy before we'd let them in.

In general, no poorfags, and nobody who we think will upset the current political balance.

That wasn't rejected, its just being delayed because lol bureaucracy.

>Utah give up polygamy before we'd let them in.
Wasn't Utah alredy a state,that was just hijacked by mormons?

The GOP doesn't want them, because it would mean a new, deep blue state.

Yeah.

Conveniently, LDS decided that polygamy wasn't in their religion any more after the US told them they wouldn't be allowed into the union until they banned it.

Canada burnt down the white house last time the Americans tried.
If there is anything the Québécois hate more than the English it is the Yankees.

British Marines from Bermuda burnt down the White House. Not Canadians. Though on the upside that means the Canadians don't have to take responsibility for the numerous rapes and murders committed by the British raiding parties along the Atlantic coast, or that they also burned down the Library of Congress.

hahaha for decades Venezuela depended on oil, but just before the oligarchy is thrown away it was becoming the tech superpower of the future.

This book which was included in /pol/'s recommended reading list might remind people of why things are the way they are today and why the US can't be trusted.

youtu.be/fSBMXsx1O6I

why cant be trusted the good old Us?

Socialism, socialism, and also socialism

Libcuck propaganda.

Because one of these will get shafted right up your economy's anus.