Is it Constantinople or Istanbul?

Цapигpaд

And that's the lowest estimate.

They are both the same word, just different languages.

Didn't the Ottomans call it Konstantinyye?

Or is Europa Universalis lying to me?

It is owned by Turkey, and they call it Istanbul, so it is called Istanbul

It was still called constantinople at the turn of the 20th century so no it wasn't lying

Nova Roma

Byzantium

Did the artist of the picture forget to put the farms outside the walls and not inside them?

Names can change you know.

For example even old New York was once New Amsterdam.

It's Constantinople. Istanbul sounds bad.

>he doesn't grow food inside his city walls for times of siege

Actually, walls were usually put up a ways outside of the city limits at the time, if they could afford to, to account for future growth. The depiction looks like its early in Constantinople's founding, when it was still Byzantium and before it was forced to tear its old walls down.

konstantinopolis

Upboat :^)

>Different languages
>same word
Fucking kek

have some HQ with that

youtube.com/watch?v=0gHRFuOlYfs

Istanbul is the deformation of a greek expression, actually. People gets butthurt but the name has nothing to do with the Ottoman conquest, and the city was officially Constantinople until the 20th century.

In the 1400s, the city was so depopulated that you actually had separate villages dividedby overgrown fields inside the walls.

it's Konstantiniiye you fucking pleb

>people will legitimately argue this

It's Istanbul you stupid cunts.
There have been dozens of different civilizations that have gone through Anatolia. The Greeks, Romans, Persians, Ottomans, Lydians, Hittites, and many others. Byzantium is another empire of the past.

It's gone. It's never coming up. Take your "MUH CHRISTIAN EMPIRE" bullshit and shove it up your ass. Byzantium was never even that close to Europe by the time it fell. Your Catholic warriors even pillaged that city long before the Turks arrived.

That place has not been called Constantinople in centuries, and the empire in which it was its capital has not existed in over half a millennia. Fucking move on already.

>That place has not been called Constantinople in centuries

It was Constantinople for most Ottoman rule though, and it was the capital of the Ottomans.

That is after 500 at the earliest.

Notice Theodosius' walls.

That sounds like bullshit. The city here has literal farms next to the most dense part of the city. In 1000 the city was so dense with buildings they had to expand it across the river.

Why is there no Hagia Sophia btw? The church in the top right of the picture doesn't look like it.

It was the nationalism of the """""""t*rks"""""" of Ataturk that changed the name.

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam. Why they changed it I can't say. People just liked it better that way.

carihrad

>That sounds like bullshit.
It's fact. Mehmet sent men to the individual hamlets to accept surrender from them.

They inner parts of the city were still a city, but significant portions were abandoned.

>In 1000 the city was so dense with buildings they had to expand it across the river.
In 1000, the city hadn't been sacked, captured, recaptured, and ravaged by the black death. Which, by the way, current research is pegging at 45-50% mortality rate in cities. It also hadn't seen the loss of the entire empire, and essentially become a deathtrap waiting for the scimitar to fall.

Constantinople was a city in decline towards the end. They could barely raise a few thousand men to defend it-and that was WITH conscription. The people were literally too poor, along with there not being very many of them.

>it was constantinapole until 20th century

Actually not. In late Ottoman Empire the city was called Istanbul. Even in 1876 constitution which was pretty anti nationalistic it is referred as Istanbul which means people was calling it Istanbul for a long time.

Its Istanbul, stop being a salty loser

Holy shit, let me learn you plebs right.

The city was first a small village named Byzantium. Greek, then Roman.

Constantine decides the location is cushy with an natural harbor and closer toward the "center" of the empire (the eastern half was more heavily populated with built in infrastructure).

He calls it 'Nova Roma,' literally New Rome. He's so finicky perfectionist about it that the citizens begin calling it 'Constantine's City,' Which as we all know sticks (He allegedly wasn't a fan of that name).

As we know, the empire went from being a Latin speaking state to a greek speaking one, so the name as prononounced by its citizen's was "Konstantinopoulis." Thats right, seven fucking syllables.

Now to "Istanbul"

Following the Arab Conquests, as well as constant raids from all directions by everyone, 'Konstantinoupolis' is left the major city of the Empire. As once all roads led to Rome, in Byzantium, all roads led to 'Nova Roma' and appropriately, the signs on all of the roads said simply "eis tan polin," or roughly, "to the city." They could only be talking about one.

Have you ever been to a big city? Every big city in the world has about a two syllable nickname for it. San Francisco becomes San Fran, Los Angeles becomes L.A., even New York becomes "Nyawk." Life in the big city has always been primarily focused on efficiency. So those extra syllables become cumbersome real quick, ain't nobody got time for those extra syllables. Here, the Greek speaking locales began to calque/contract the words that actually came up in conversation, "Eis tan polin." Eventually, that became Eistanpol and yes, even 'Is tan polin.' Rolls off the tongue for the Greek speaking natives, especially in comparison to "The City of Constantine"

We know the story of the empire/city, it descends and descends until it is a hovel of some 20-40,000 "Romans" that are promptly invaded by Mehmed II. Interestingly, before Mehmed II arrives, several thousand of the city's citizens hightail it out of dodge (can you blame them?). Mehmed II then famously takes the city.

This is where the story is reaallly interesting. As far as the name of the city, Mehmed II (the only one of the Ottoman Sultan's we could really stick the byzaboo sticker on, yet even that's complicated), is adament in balancing desires out. Whether owing to fancying himself the new 'Kaiser of Rum,' or simply not wanting to alienate the Christians/Romans which at this point make up a substantial portion of his empire (Ottoman Empire is just balkans and anatolia at 1453). For these reasons, Mehmed II insists on retaining the city's name of Konstantinoupolis (he probably pronounced it right, speaking perfect Greek himself), as well as inviting back and transplanting huge amounts of his peoples, Christian or otherwise to the city. These two actions lead to two effects on the city's name's toponymy.

All accusations of Mehmed II being byzaboo aside, Mehmed II most likely retained the name of "Konstantinoupolis" (it wouldn't be "islamized" into 'Konstantiiniye" till much later) owing to his Islamic Faith. You see, the city of Constantinople is mentioned by name in the Quran, specifically with regard to how some day, a proud warrior of the Faith would eventually take the city. By emphasizing this, Mehmed II in effect was including himself as one of the characters of the Quran (the only person who can be considered so after the initial wave of faithful in the sixth century). This is a big deal, and the biggest part of why the city retained it's name over the centuries.

Now, remember those transplanted populations? Mehmed II envisioned the new capital of his empire as cosmopolitan in nature, to reflect the many populations/peoples under his domain. As such, he brought in all kinds of people to live in "The City." Thing is, by maintaining the name "Konstantinoupolis" (again, for prestige and prophecy and shit), he was making it hard for all of his disparate, different language speaking new citizens of the city to talk to each other about where they live. Most interestingly, it is believed that because Mehmed II brought back a substantial amount of Greek/Romans who already had an easier nickname on hand (as well as not taking down all those old road signs, because convenience), that the nickname "Eis tan polin" stuck. Throughout the centuries, both names would be used. 'Konstantinoupolis' (later 'Konstantiiniye' as later Sultans/courts were more interested in emphasizing their Islamicness as their empire became increasingly so) on most official documentation, and "Eistanpolin" by most of the locals.

Other names would be attempted. Religious authorities/more jingoisitic elements of the court attempted on at least two separate occassions to change the city to "Islambol" (not liking the big 'K' [while I guess forgetting its Quranic connotations] and attempting to shift the momentum of the long stuck Eistanpolin), but these attempts ultimately failed. Which brings us to our last chapter of why K got the works.

Greece gained its independence, and while emphasizing its Hellas culture, always dreaming of getting back Constantinople. We may be familiar with the broad strokes of WWI. The Ottoman Empire, replete with Konstantinoupolis/Konstantiiniye was being disembowled. Indeed, who knows how history would have turned out for Turkey if it wasn't owing to fierce military resistance and diplomatic rejection of Sevres by Attaturk. In any case, while Ottomans were beat the fuck up, a strong/stable Turkey emerged that retained the cities name, to the great anguish of the Greeks. Several "population exchanges" later, what once was a heterogenous spread of peoples throughout Thrace and Anatolia was now overwhelmingly Turkish in character. Come 1931, Attaturk changes the name of the city officially to "Istanbul" a contraction of the nickname for it. NOT as a means of distancing the city/country from its Christian past (they don't care, its been centuries), but instead to get away from its Ottoman one. Changing it to Istanbul, while originally a Greek phrase, was now simply officiating the local flavor. The rest is history. In 1953 to commemorate the 500 year history of the Fall/Conquest of the city, novelty group 'The Four Lads' released their famous song.

Poetic Epilogue:
Many Greek still feel pain at the absence of the city. They even have new nicknames for it, such as "the lost city." As we become increasingly globalized / modern, etc whatevs, calling Istanbul "the lost city" may be something that is only bemoaned by old Greeks drinking "Greek" coffee. However, funnily enough, you will find, on the several highway/road systems of Greece, that all signs pointing the way to Istanbul now say "to Konstantinoupolis"

遲散 or 魯迷

t. T'ang Dynasty

>The city here has literal farms next to the most dense part of the city.
Chang'an during the height of the Tang Dynasty was filled with farms inside the walls. That was probably the greatest city in the world at the time. Constantinople is shown here around the early 1400s when it was just a bunch of ruins and villages, it's hardly surprising that there would be farms.

>Why is there no Hagia Sophia btw? The church in the top right of the picture doesn't look like it.
That's it. It's not as big as people seem to think.

Why they changed it I can't say, people just liked it better that way

Byzantium tb h

Then where is the Hagia in the drawing?

The dome beside the hippodrome.

>what people called it...

No. Officially the city was Constantinople till the 20th century. However it had been called Istanbul colloquial for centuries.

Did you even read my post? It is literally referred as Istanbul in the fucking constitution.

None of the popular atheists know Scripture well enouh to settle debates; neither do I follow the popular nor do your deluded retarded memes apply to me. My post was antitheist. I somewhat doubt your kind can learn new proper words.

>However it had been called Istanbul colloquial for centuries
In other words, 'what people called it' was Istanbul.

Can we just ban this meme guy?

Out of curiosity, what do these two stand for?
Goog Translate shows up jack shit.

>遲散
Chisan. From the T'ang abbreviation for "Constantinople" (Ko su chi sa no pu or something).
>魯迷
Rumi = Rome. Used during the 1300s.

I always thought the whole "rename the city after yourself" thing Constantine pulled was stupid.
Byzantium sounds much better as well.

> not accounting for feudal rush
Lmao i bet u dont even wall with houses

It "is" Istanbul because "is" is present tense.

>mfw nobody knows what it was called before it was Byzantium

That's nobody business but the turks.

>An Lushan, I'm Tang

Constistanantbulinople

constantinople is fatih(mehmed's nickname conqueror) district in istanbul

Constanbul, Istantinople.

>>
It was originally the Greek colony city of Byzantium which is where the Empire gets its name, it came to be called Constantinople but it did become Istanbul when the Turks took the city during the fall of Constantinople Constantine XI Palaiologos was crowned in Greece months before the battle for the very purpose of defending the last hold out of Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman legacy.

When asked to surrender the Grand City, Palaiologos said thus.

"To surrender the city to you is beyond my authority or anyone else's who lives in it, for all of us, after taking the mutual decision, shall die out of free will without sparing our lives."

He died defending the city walls sword in hand.

Konstantinoupolis

It's whatever you want it to be

well its has been hugely successful city ever since the turks got a hold of it, which is why it has such a high population today

It was successful before Latins and Turks decided to shit it up in the first place.

Its prime real estate.
You know if the Roman Empire was willing to move its capital from the city of Rome, the namesake of the entire empire, to here, that there was some significance of this place.

Probably nothing because the Greeks who called it Byzantium were the ones who founded it?

>That place has not been called Constantinople in centuries

The Turks called it Konstantiniyye well into the 20th century. Ataturk and his republican scum ruined all that and more.

>In the 1400s, the city was so depopulated that you actually had separate villages dividedby overgrown fields inside the walls.

Present day Detroit is like that.

Venice.

nah it's fatih and eminönü combined

the old city(bizantium/constantinople etc) is called "Suriçi"

also this plan is pretty lewd

Thanks user it was worth it. It will always be Constantinople, and if you look at it he carried that name longer that Istanbul

It's Byzantium you fuckheads

>being this delusional
don't worry user, we will take it back one day, you rouches are just living there as squatters