The reason you guys hate Turkey and the Ottoman Empire is because of Islam. Just fucking admit it. Not because of 'muh oppressed slaves' or whatever like that.
The Ottoman Empire was on par with Persia, China, and Rome. They basically did the same shit and did so in a more difficult timeperiod.
It's part Islam, part butthurt greeks.
Dude even other Muslims hate Turks
I admit it, what's your point?
I would never deny it, I hate mudslimes
But I don't hate Turkey or the Ottoman Empire. Or Islam, for that matter.
Veeky Forums is going to be influenced by /pol/ or /pol/-esque thinking no matter what, purely out of the website that its on (Veeky Forums). The best thing to do is to soldier on and try to have decent conversation on history regardless.
With that said, every now and then you can catch some decent threads on here about the Ottomans, though more often than not it will be pure shit.
Nice try, but the real reason is that it denies very established Veeky Forumstorical facts. Armenian genocide is the main example. There is nothing wrong with Islam, but revisionism is a cancer.
I don't hate them
Only /pol/ does with their double standards
I think the fact that left-wing academia constantly shits on Western civilization for it's crimes, while at the same time praising the Ottoman Empire as the most progressive pre-modern civilization, is what creates so many animosity against it.
Wait they do?
I hate and love Turks at the same time. Hard to explain.
>The reason you guys hate Turkey and the Ottoman Empire is because of Islam. Just fucking admit it.
Yeah, pretty much.
This explains it very well. One example is how Western nations must make up for "the crimes of colonialism", yet Turkey gets a free pass despite also being a colonial power in Africa (Libya).
I hate Turks because they're ugly, their language is ugly and their culture looks like a ripoff rapebaby of Arabs and Slavs. Also they claim to be descended from Central Asian Mongoloids despite the fact that most of them look white or brown. (inb4 some butthurt white nationalists say they don't look white, bitch, to us real Asian Mongoloids you all look white).
You act as if there is anything the least bit wrong with hating Islam and brown people in general.
The Ottoman Empire did literally nothing wrong though.
I like this Turk pretty well.
Also Atatürk was pretty badass.
If you consider genocides badass, sure
Ottoman empire is pretty funny desu. The amount of butthurt they cause to Europeans and minorities they lorded over is hilarious.
it's actually because they turned the balkans into a permanent shithole, but also because islam too yeah
>/pol/ boogeymen
grow up
What makes you think I don't?
Do you not?
Not only Islam. They also killed off east rome and is now flooding Germany with their subhuman kind
>Nothing wrong
>Islam
Wew lad.
Everyone except the most die hard islamic/progressive fanatics would be willing to admit there is at least *something* wrong with islam even if it is just the lack of bacon, or some trivial shit like that
>The Ottoman Empire was on par with Persia, China, and Rome
No, it wasn't, it was the shittiest empire to ever exist in the middle east, and no, it's not about Islam, the Abbasid Caliphate was pretty great, compared to the piece of shit that was the Ottoman, and actually made some significant advances in science and math.
Roaches Out pls
If it's your religion and you think there's something "wrong" with it you're not following it too well.
At most you'd find people saying "well it's not wrong, but it's all up to interpretation" as is the case with Christianity and well, everything.
Glorious.
Based Turks taking out Byzanshits AND the eternal Kraut.
>i hate ugly turk
>post plastic asian girl
I don't hate Turkey or the Ottoman Empire, I only hate the cockroach ottoboos who say they didnu nuffin
It's perfectly valid to hate a place because of a religion. Islam sucks, Christianity sucks and monotheism in general sucks.
The world would be a better place today if Abraham had been devoured by wild animals.
Whattup /pol/?
I'd rather fuck a "plastic asian" girl then a "turkish girl" who has a mustache.
>now flooding Germany with their subhuman kind
That was like 50 years ago
What does that have to do with you ?
Why do you care also turks speak a turkic language whch makes them turks.
If they aren't turks almost nobody is what they are saying that they are.
Pretty much this, and also I am Byzantiumboo
The three Eurasian Empires like Russia, AH and Ottomans are generally points of interest by Western Scholars because they tried to base their identities outside of the Nation-State meme when everyone else around them (their own people included) was busy doing so.
Because Colonialism wasnt the case for the Ottomans in Africa.
Colonialism heavily involved othering. Like the best a native man can be under colonial rule was to be some menial. While an Egyptian/IFrican cunt can be a government official under the Ottoman Empire.
Not all Empires are Colonialist Empires bruv.
Yeah, so?
Islam is a steaming pile of diarrhea, it ruins everything it touches.
And there are at most 3 million turk in germany which ahs a population of like 60-80 million. Also many are going back to turkey after being done with their education.
Yup fuck Islam. Turkey would be such a nicer place without it. Spent most of my youth in Turkey. The people are really westernised it would be just another European modernised country if it wasn't for fucking islam.
Lad, Turkey isn't much better or worse than their white Christian neighbours.
>Erdogan
>Islam
>Muh Byzantium
This
Because there's constant Turk shills and cockraoches who push out the retarded meme that the Ottoman Empire is the heir of Rome.
Ataturk is a little shit head.
I don't understand how you Westerners can worship Turkey's version of Kim Jong Un.
>IT'S ILLEGAL TO INSULT HIMTHERE ARE STATUES OF HIM EVERYWHEREYOU MUST HAVE A PICTURE OF HIM IN YOUR OFFICE IF YOU'RE THE OWNER
What's wrong with being conservative and nationalistic? He tried to westernize Turkey, and he also tried to weaken/modernize Islam. Are you one of those liberal human rights types?
>Being a dictator is alright as long as You are """"Mordern""""
I bet you also praise The Chinese Communist Party
>The reason you guys hate Turkey and the Ottoman Empire is because of Islam.
I agree with this. Ottomans destroyed the only legitimate successor state to the Roman Empire and took Anatolia (which is central to ancient western history) away from Christendom. They also seemingly get away with being overtly nationalist/revisionist as well as genocide denial which probably pisses off european nationalists. While I can respect them prior to the 19th century, they quickly became responsible for the retardation of the middle east and southeast europe. All this and butthurt greeks.
>dat pic
truly the turkish peole's greatest contribution to the advancement of the human race
So you are saying it's better to fall into anarchy and irrelevance? Thats an easy thing to say coming from a powerful western first world nation. But I bet if you had to choose whether to keep your power and wealth and safety, or to keep your democracy and stop a dictator you'd pick to keep your safety and wealth so you don't get raped by foreigners who want to exploit your nation.
Ottoman Empire was a just the typical monarchy of the time with the local magistrates and lords fighting over power while most sultans just fucked around.there were a few good sultans as there were a few byzantine emperors who were good leaders.the difference is the religion,islam was the main theme of the Ottoman Empire as Orthodoxy was to ERE/Byzantium.But the people of the areas they controlled needed education and trade and the ottomans lacked the spiritual and naval capital to push the population into a better state.byzantine emperors,as shitty as some were,always had at least some respect towards money and spirit,maybe beacause of the roman world,maybe because of the greeks who were the main people of the empire or just because the christian faith in good hands is jsut a bit more free than Islam.
There are a lot of things inherently wrong with Islam but i think what he meant is there is nothing inherently wrong with being Muslim.
Except Ataturk and Mao/PRC are 2 different things.
Because he brought Turkey into the future? Do you really think life would be better for Turks if he didn't exist?
Ok Turkanon, here's why I, personally, hate your country.
Besides the point that everything west of Hellespont should be given back to the Greeks.
The main reason is what modern Turkey is, simple as that. The Ottomans were actually pretty cool guys. Prior to the 20th century, they largely let the Greeks and Armenians and others be, live and let live. Enver Pasha was a faggot, but besides him, most of the Ottomans were ok.
They did some really cool shit, yes they conquered large parts of Europe, but they did it by being better than the defenders, and they lost eventually by losing their advantage and being outclassed, this shit happens. They contributed a great deal of art and architecture and science to the world, and they kept the middle east largely pacified for almost 4 centuries, which is an impressive feat.
The problem was what happened after WW1. Turkish republicanism and Turkish nationalism are fucking disgusting. Ataturk is literally on a par with Lenin and Napoleon in terms of absolute scum.
Since 1922, Turkey has gone from a relatively multicultural, art and science producing, tolerant place to a fucking cultural sewer. The process of Turkification was the biggest mistake that country has ever committed. They literally made the entire country a vile, shitty fucking bland as fuck Islamic banana republic, purely because they wanted social cohesion after they destroyed the Ottoman Empire, the only legitimately cool Islamic empire to have existed since the Abbasids. They also abolished the Ottoman caliphate, the only thing keeping Islam together, and stopping it from being the absolute retard mode ideology it is now.
Republican Turkey is an ignorant, regressive, revisionist, pseudo-fascist shithole. Given the heights the Ottoman Empire achieved, it is actually staggering how far Turkey has fallen in the last century, and how much disgusting shit they have perpetrated against people who were once their own citizens.
I mean if Greeks and Armenians cut up Turkey, where would the Turks go?
Ataturk was a reactionary. Was it bad? Yes. Was it necessary? Possibly.
>Where would the Turks go
To the ovens, that's what. The actions of the Turkroaches in this past century, their general attitude towards everyone around them (all of my neighbors are hidden enemies that want to carve up our country), show that Turks can't be trusted to behave around other ethnic groups.
In an ideal world the Turks would have been genocided instead of the Greeks and Armenians, although with the growing Kurdish population in their country there is still a chance of redeeming Anatolia.
Hello KIDF
nah, its just got a shit knock-off aesthetic
>IT'S ILLEGAL TO INSULT HIMTHERE ARE STATUES OF HIM EVERYWHEREYOU MUST HAVE A PICTURE OF HIM IN YOUR OFFICE IF YOU'RE THE OWNER
What? Why not? If we can admit that there is something inherently wrong with Islam, and Muslims are people who follow Islam, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that there is something inherently wrong with Muslims? It's as if someone said "well I can agree that murder is bad" and then they go and murder someone. If murder is bad, so are murders the same way that if Islam is bad, so are Muslims.
I don't hate countries, that's pleb tier.
Hello, subhuman turk. Go back to raping boys and fapping to delusions of "Turan".
Many Mulsims are forced into the faith. If they question it, or even think of looking into other religions/atheism they risk being executed. In Western countries they might escape execution, but will certainly be shunned by their communities and families for freethought. You can't blame most Mulsims when they have to deal with that kind of pressure.
>having a religious belief is equivalent to ending another's life without their consent
wew lad
So then what are you trying to say the proper response should be? Should we just say "oh well they were just brought up that way" and ignore their real actions and beliefs? At a certain point you have to take a stand to end the cycle and say that there are things wrong with Islam, and therefore it's wrong to follow Islam. Otherwise people will just keep making excuses and nothing will ever change for the better.
When nearly half of all believers of a religion think that execution is the correct response to people leaving that religion, what's really the difference?
you moron, when the muslims become a sizeble portion of western countries and starts pushing for this crap, i wonder if you will still be saying "wew lad memes! it's just le religious belief: inconsequential"
>Things that will never happen
all the inhabitants of what now is turkey 1000 years ago were christian who spoke greek, armenian or kurdish.
Turkey is the last part of the western world that was lost to Islam.
It is the opposite of Spain, who were lost to Islam in 711, but managed to reconquer their country.
It is also sad because the conquest of Constantinople is the end of the roman empire.
>Many Mulsims are forced into the faith. If they question it, or even think of looking into other religions/atheism they risk being executed.
No they're not, that's Saudi or ISIS land and thats it.
Did you know the hijab is banned in most work places throughout the muslim world?
Did you know muslims are humans trying to get on with their lives who arent secret agents trying to take over the west like in your conspiracies?
much obliged
in all seriousness though I don't hate anyone since hate is very visceral, only Turks I've ever known are kebab shop owners and one who was a bit of a nigger back in secondary school
>He actually thinks "Syrian" refugees are assimilating
yeah like whites will never be a minority in america
muslims already account for over 20% of the population in some cities in europe, and their fertility rate is like twice that of locals
100 years ago nobody though South Africa would fall. 50 years ago nobody though America would fall. And today you're saying there's no way for Europe to fall to the barbarians. When will you people fucking learn?
>he fell for the Eurabia hypothesis
How many are there?
Whats the white population of europe?
Really, nobody thought the country in africa, 90% black, would ever become ruled by its own people? Don't be fucking stupid.
If the entire population of the middle east migrated into Europe whites would still be the majority.
Stop talking absolute shite.
>If the entire population of the middle east migrated into Europe whites would still be the majority.
they're not going to the Balkans, Poland or Belarus you spoon, and you're completely ignoring birth rates where foreigners have surpassed the natives in countries like France, Sweden, Germany
>memes xD
do you know the percentage of muslims in brussels? i bet you don't. look it up and tell me it's not well over 20%
Do you understand how population growth works? Do you understand that white European birth rates are well below replacement rates, while Muslim birth rates are well above? Do you understand that the median white European age is in the 40s, while the median age for Muslim immigrants is in the 20s? I don't know if you're stupid or if you're baiting, but it's working
...
>When nearly half of all believers of a religion think that execution is the correct response to people leaving that religion, what's really the difference?
So thinking is equivalent to murder now?
Other religious groups have already tried pushing for laws based on their religious belief. But there's a difference between religious belief and actually pushing for laws. Whether pushing for those laws is motivated by religion or not is essentially irrelevant.
>their fertility rate is like twice that of locals
>and it'll always be that way! there's no rational reason based on demographics to explain it, god must have just infused them with the magical ability to outbreed others for the lulz
>couldn't look up brussels
Birth rates =/= population size. This is like saying if you're going 20 mph at the start of the race and the other guy's going 10 mph, that you're guaranteed to win.
The birthrates are not significantly higher. They drop off by the 2nd generation. European birth rates are not below replacement.
Even if all those things were true, white Europeans are still so numerous in comparison that the immigrants will still simply be absorbed into the population.
Stop believing bullshit scaremongering.
Wow a single city!
Source? I'm hoping it's not some meme site.
>The Pew Research Center notes that "the data that we have isn't pointing in the direction of 'Eurabia' at all",[49] and predicts that the percentage of Muslims is estimated to rise to 8% in 2030. Most academics who have analysed the demographics dismiss the predictions that the EU will have Muslim majorities.[50] It is completely reasonable to assume that the overall Muslim population in Europe will increase, and Muslim citizens have and will have a significant imprint on European life.[51] The prospect of a homogenous Muslim community per se, or a Muslim majority in Europe is however out of the question.[52]
>European birth rates are not below replacement.
I think they are in some cases, but that's really just due to current population sizes being above optimal, doesn't mean they'll keep declining forever.
And all this fear about "the whiteness being bred out of Europe" or whatever is just emotional attachment to the "white race" as it currently exists, rather than desiring the betterment of humanity. By definition, if Muslim genes become more common in the European population, it just means they have greater genetic fitness which means the population is being improved through natural selection.
>It is completely reasonable to assume that the overall Muslim population in Europe will increase, and Muslim citizens have and will have a significant imprint on European life.
Straight from your shitty wikitard article
>So thinking is equivalent to murder now?
It's more than just thinking, are you being purposefully obtuse? Hundreds of millions of people across the globe live in Muslim nations with apostasy laws.
pewresearch.org
"Genetic fitness", are you fucking retarded? The minimum viable population you need to avoid inbreeding is just 5000. Europe has hundreds of millions of people, it doesn't have any "genetic fitness" problems you fucking cuck.
americanscientist.org
>It's more than just thinking, are you being purposefully obtuse? Hundreds of millions of people across the globe live in Muslim nations with apostasy laws.
And? Being a Muslim is not the same as instituting apostasy laws.
>"Genetic fitness", are you fucking retarded? The minimum viable population you need to avoid inbreeding is just 5000. Europe has hundreds of millions of people, it doesn't have any "genetic fitness" problems you fucking cuck.
This has nothing to do with "minimum viable population". What, you think evolutionary improvement is supposed to stop once we reach a certain population size?
>your foolish cited sources are no match for my feelings
How does it feel to be a living example of the horseshoe effect?
its a good thing
dictatorship with a good leader is better than democracy.
How?
lel
Get lost with your conspiracy theories, eurabia will never happen
mustafa kemal had nothing to do with the events of armenian question you fucking asswipe
>armenian question
>And? Being a Muslim is not the same as instituting apostasy laws.
Nearly half of all Muslims support those laws, I've stated this like 3 times how many more times do I have to state it before you read what I'm writing.
> What, you think evolutionary improvement is supposed to stop once we reach a certain population size?
Any population larger than 5000 doesn't need outside sources to have "genetic improvement". A population larger than the MVP can support itself. There is not a single country in Europe even close to the MVP, this is a non-issue.
>You've cited something from the link I posted myself, better pretend you didn't and resort to memes
K...
You think Muslims inside Europe will not impact the political systems at all?