I really like Christianity. I have been going to my local Anglican church recently and doing a lot of good work, helping keeping the graveyard well kept and working in a soup kitchen for the homeless.
I'm really struggling with the metaphysical claims though.
What is the difference between a prayer and a spell? Or between miracles and magic?
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> What is the difference between a prayer and a spell? Or between miracles and magic?
None.
But well done for doing good for the world.
A prayer is a request whereas a spell is a command.
A miracle is performed by God whereas magic is performed by the magician.
Nice get btw.
I know this feel. I think I would've been a great Christian a century or more ago but I'm too fedora for my own good.
>A prayer is a request whereas a spell is a command.
Spells normally involve a request to deity based on ritualised words, like the Lord's Prayer for example.
>A miracle is performed by God whereas magic is performed by the magician.
That sounds like they are the same thing.
>That sounds like they are the same thing.
Only to someone who thinks they are God.
The church dicked itself into a corner by pinning the entire point of Christianity on getting in heaven and the existence of Yahweh.
They could have dealt with secularization much more intelligently imo.
I always thought of the lords prayer more to be praising god than commanding him to give us bread
To which deity did Hermione make her requests?
>b-but those weren't real spells!!!
Ok... do you have an example of a "real spell?" :^)
>Only to someone who thinks they are God.
Like Jesus.
The Son is not the Father.
That's from a series of fictional novels and films, user.
Whether you deem it a demand or a request or praise with a mere hope of getting something in return it is still the same principle that most "real" occult spells are based on.
You might need to brush up on your understanding of how mainstream Trinitarian Christianity works.
The Son is not the Father but he is fully God.
I never said He wasn't.
Ok Dumbledore, what's a non-fictional spell then?
So make a proper reply to this then.
>Ok Dumbledore, what's a non-fictional spell then?
I don't believe any spells / prayers / blessings / curses have any actual power behind them but if you wanted a "real world" example of "magic" and "spells" then you could look at something like Wicca or Crowley's "magic", they work on the same principle as Christian prayers.
As the Son of God, Jesus is unique in history and therefore has abilities that no other person has.
To different ones.
Jesus is the Son of God and God himself incarnate in mainstream Christian mythology.
That's how Trinitarian Christianity works.
I am having a part-time job in a local community center, run by both this non-religious, non-political organization and the city. Mostly we hand old food stuff donated by groceries. Also I aid some customers with computer use.
Our customers are mostly elderly people, some unemployed persons and so on.
I'm not extremely thrilled about the job, but I guess my work means something for some people.
You yourself admit that there is no difference between Hermione's spells and Crowley's because they're both fictional but I'll humor you anyway.
Thelema means "will" and the supposed power of a thelemite comes from their own will-power. By contrast, A Christian prayer relies on God's power.
I pray you will experience that power one day user. Goodbye and God bless.
I don't think Crowley is a fictional person, like Hermione, no.
I don't see where you are going with this.
>I pray you will experience that power one day user
Thank you for casting a spell for me. I don't think it makes any difference but I appreciate you believe in magic and you think you are doing a good thing.
Honestly I gave up on the metaphysics and don't really even believe in God anymore. I just stay with the church because they do good work in the community, and go through the motions during service. It's rather sad now that I think about it, I'm a man who's lost his faith but not his morals
I see nothing sad about this. Keeping up the morals actually requires work I think. You're in a very rewarding path.
I don't see a problem with this.
Maintaining a cultural role as a voice of moral guidance, upkeeping historic churches and burial grounds, delivering life cycle rituals to consumers and providing community charitable services is the future of the Anglican Church, while at the same time distancing itself from the metaphysical claims that originally formed its foundation.
There is a bright future for Christian Atheists.
>christianity
devils quads
>Christian Atheists
Is it right to call Jesus yet another philosopher at this context?
We have a person, who also happens to be religious.
I'm kind of the other way. I was more interested in the theology and metaphysics. But, having decided I couldn't believe in it and becoming an atheist, I still do have mostly the same morality. Except now I don't pretend that I think there's something inherently wrong, with, say, sex before marriage.
Even then, I'm such a fucking square. And I look down on people for being morally shitty all the time.
A prayer is not necessarily a request, and is certainly not a command. It is a communication to and with God, for a variety of purposes. To praise, thank, etc. A spell is just some low level charm
The Douchebag Bible might change your mind
youtube.com
>I'm really struggling with the metaphysical claims though.
Why the fuck do you need to be religious in order to do those good things?
Can't you just use the church as an outlet for your humanitarian needs? Why do you have to buy what they are selling?
>prayer and a spell?
Talking to God v attempting to invoke demonic powers
>Or between miracles and magic?
Acts of God v demonic powers.
Read the bit in Exodus where the magicians counterfeit the miracles God does through Moses and Aaron. They can't duplicate all of them, and their counterfeits are weaker. But it's real magic.
Not OP but imagine you work at a homeless center but you find out your boss is a Nazi. Not saying it's exactly the same but working with someone with a different ideology than you, even og the result is ultimately good, can feel bittersweet.
Magic, by anthropological definition, is the idea that one can have some control over the forces of the universe via words or some other means of intent.
Praying is more along the lines of asking for intervention from someone who can actually do said magic. It's outside of your direct control, so changes how your own agency factors into the equation.