That said, the Bible tells us to do good works especially in Matthew 25:31–46 and in fact says those who abstain from doing good works for those in need will go to hell.
In light of this, how can you argue that faith requires no good works?
Can you be faithful and not attempt to follow the Bible? What logic is that?
You can say "I have faith in Jesus will save me and that is all I need.", but how can you have faith without following the Bible.
Or can you just have faith that all your sins will be absolved and you get a free pass without ever helping those in need like the Bible explicitly says to do or else.
Really? I thought there would be someone who would at least try to faith alone.
Samuel Bennett
>how can you argue that faith requires no good works? What? Faith is outside the bounds of empirical facts and the good bad dichotomy. That's the point of faith. It's belief outside the bounds of proof. It requires no works.
>Can you be faithful and not attempt to follow the Bible? What logic is that?
Most certainly.
>For Kierkegaard Christian faith is not a matter of regurgitating church dogma. It is a matter of individual subjective passion, which cannot be mediated by the clergy or by human artefacts. Faith is the most important task to be achieved by a human being, because only on the basis of faith does an individual have a chance to become a true self. This self is the life-work which God judges for eternity.
God exists outside these ideas of Christianity/Islam/Hebrew/Pagan ideals.
Soren Kierkegaard, give him a squizz. Father of agnosticism and attacked the churches for essentially being wrong, he did a dam good job at it.
Andrew Rivera
I was hoping to get a protty response.
As you don't really see the relationship of faith and the Bible, then I'm not sure what there is to debate.
I suppose that makes you a heretic though.
Jason Lewis
>As you don't really see the relationship of faith and the Bible
The point is there is no relation.
>.t Kierkegaard
You feel for their lies.
Luke Turner
But what then of the Bible. The whole point of it was the word made flesh?
I assume you do not believe that Christ died for our sins as much as Mohamed is the true prophet.
Nolan Turner
>how can you argue that faith requires no good works?
Faith PRODUCES Good Works which are the EVIDENCE of Faith
Jason Lee
Why aren't all Protestants NEET monks ascetics? Matthew 19:21
Adrian Adams
1. There is no free will to salvation 2. The ONLY way you can be saved is by God blessing you with his Grace 3. Grace is manifested in Faith 4. Faith is manifested in good works
This is what James meant. Faith and good works are inseparable. If there's no good works, then there's no faith, no grace and thus no salvation.
Henry Cruz
because Lord knows we ain't perfect!
Nolan Parker
I understand poor and acsetic but how in the fuck are you getting NEET out of that?
Jace Brown
I have a question for Catholics. I am having trouble agreeing with the Catholic viewpoint of the Pope, although I want to be Catholic. Why should I respect the Pope? Also, why does he have primacy over the other Bishops from a Theological Standpoint? Also, if I were to become a Catholic, would I need to be baptized again? Thank you, hopefully you guys turn me into a real Catholic. I am a recent convert and have no official denomination yet.
Brandon Gomez
>all this Prodsplaining because he's the Vicar of Christ dummy
Joseph Williams
Become Orthodox or High Chuch Anglican.
Parker Richardson
Fuck off falseflagger
Brayden Smith
>the Bible get a load of this proddy
Hunter Cruz
i wonder how many boys have seen that face?
Nicholas Cook
To be fair, it depends if you believe God mad an authority over the Church. If its all anarchy then protty. If you believe the Church has a singular leadership then Catholics.
To be fair, Orthodox is pretty based.
Julian Ramirez
I thought about both.
Eli Mitchell
...
Wyatt Baker
Orthodox is a gigantic meme and makes no sense considering it isn't terribly "orthodox"
Anglicans are dead and have woman priests and marry gays.
Catholicism is the Aristocracy of the soul.
Gabriel Flores
Well, I certainly believe Apostolic Succession is important. I thought about Orthodoxy. It is alright.
Grayson Jones
>dat wall fish
Oliver Mitchell
fishermen gonna fish
Kayden Torres
Those are some small hands
Caleb Nguyen
Like I said... >I am a recent convert and have no official denomination yet. I will never be Protestant again; it took me away from Christianity, therefore I think it is DEFINITELY heresy. Now, I am choosing between Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
I wish you would offer answers. Now let's try again. Why does the Pope have primacy over the other Bishops from a Theological Standpoint? >THEOLOGICAL STANDPOINT Also, if I were to become a Catholic, would I need to be baptized again?
Alexander Bell
>bruh sola scriptura >except for this instance Why do people take Proddies seriously?
Nicholas Bennett
That is why I left Protestantism.
David Carter
See
Liam Ramirez
what are you now?
Mason Stewart
Any Sedevacantists here? I am not a sedevacantist, but I would like a breakdown of why you believe some Popes are valid and the Popes after a certain point are not valid.
Thanks. Pax vobiscum.
Liam Gomez
>Why does the Pope have primacy over the other Bishops from a Theological Standpoint? because he's the successor to St. Peter and the voice which unites the disparate Christian world together as well as allows them all to contribute to great works greater than any individual or parish could ever accomplish. because he's the patron of Artists and theologians and has calmed down in recent years to accepting his role as "prime minister" of the Church rather than Prince.
Orthodoxy is a mess, divided by ethnic squabbling, lacking in unity, and heavily confused with its own doctrine as what constitutes "development" or not.
not to mention Catholicism has the richest theological tradition of any with ideas ranging from stuff similar to Calvinism with hard determinism and a select elected group chosen by God, to more esoteric ideas reminiscent of platonic Gnosticism, the kabbalah occult and meditation.
Ian Anderson
> There is no free will to salvation This is just what Calvin thinks, which goes against S O L A S C R I P T U R A. Proddies are literally BTFO by their own basics
Carson Lee
>Why does the Pope have primacy over the other Bishops from a Theological Standpoint?
Because one interpretation of Matthew 16:18 gives Peter dominion over the whole church, and apostolic succession means that authority extends to the pope.
Parker Harris
Popes I like: real popes Popes I don't like: antipopes and heretics
That's all there is to sedevacantism, it's a bunch of protestants who can't even admit they're protestants
Benjamin Cook
I have no idea what you mean, predestination to salvation is what the Bible teaches. And it's even an orthodox teaching you fucking crypto Pelagian.
Jacob Phillips
well they just interpret that verse differently. i was actually in a bible study that went over that verse and explained that faith and works are intertwined, not that works are a requirement of salvation. t. ex-protestant atheist
Angel Bell
Well that concept only works in hindsight, since if you call the pope a false one during his reign you're getting excommunicated.
Nicholas Edwards
Catholic capital is still in Catholic hands.
Orthodox capital is now a Muslim city.
Ryder Torres
Fun Story: I had a religion professor for a few classes who absolutely refused to show her personal religious beliefs in an capacity in class. Her main academic focus was early church history and Orthdox monasticism, but made absolutely no indication as to what she believed personally.
The only time I ever heard her make a judgement about something theologically was about Calvinism. She said it made no sense theologically and was sort of morally repgunant because of what its fatalism implied and led its adherents to believe.
Julian Jenkins
I left Protestantism, and I regret this, for a short period of Atheism. Protestantism never really gave me a good grasp of God.
I recently converted back to Christianity after a realization that God is real. Now, through my period between my conversion and now I have been doing research on various denominations. This leaves me with two options: Orthodoxy and Catholicism. I will never be Baptist again. I am 100% certain that it is heresy; it brought me away from the Lord and I have a feeling that my period of Atheism was for a reason.
tl;dr I am just a Non-Protestant Christian. I like Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and I am trying to choose between the two.
Hunter Evans
You sound like a huge fucking faggot, convert to that.
Nathan Diaz
No, the bible is filled with parables and such about the agency of the sinner in repenting or not.
Then a millenium later Calvin gets there and shits on everything to defend his sins
Nicholas Price
This is what college does to you.
Nathan White
And by Calvin you mean St. Paul and St. Augustine right? You can't be saved through your own will, sorry my man.
Camden Hughes
Yes, but if you believe in that interpretation aren't you breaking sola scriptura? It just reminds me of papal bulls and such
Camden Gomez
Funny. Are you angry because I called the Baptist denomination heresy? Maybe you are just an angry Atheist? Either way, I hope you find peace.
Nathaniel Flores
>doing good works will lead you to salvation This is false
>being saved will lead you to doing good works This is correct
Nicholas Davis
Here's just one example >He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ >Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them >No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ >He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead
Nolan Brown
Do you know what Sola Scriptura even is? Considering how papists always misinterprete Sola Fide (the pic in OP is a great proof of that) I wouldn't be surprised if you genuinely had no clue
Jace Campbell
Yes, but the problem is that in sola fida is that you don't need good works, only faith. Therefore you can be the most despicable man alive, but if you have faith you're going to heaven
Cameron Gray
That is correct. Good works is an immediate outward manifestation of faith/salvation and not its cause.
Connor Cook
The mistake you're making is assuming that faith without good works is even a thing. It isn't. There is a difference between real faith and an intellectual faith, if you've been blessed with grace you MUST do good works, it's out of your control and will.
Zachary Davis
Thank you. If I were to be Catholic, would I need to be baptized to receive Eucharist.
Kevin Cook
"We teach justification by faith alone, but not a faith that is alone." -Martin Luther Learn the difference between Protestantism (biblical Christianity) and the heresy of Antinomianism (easy believeism).
Juan Bailey
Yes, but its not that hard. You need to attend a religious ceremony. I did it when I was younger than 12 so its not that hard.
Josiah Gray
I was baptized as a Lutheran, do I need to be baptized as a Catholic?
If you can't do it, then you are more retarded than a 7 year old.
Ayden Johnson
Pelagius pls For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
Josiah Robinson
Go Reformed
Wyatt Bell
But the Bible says that if you don't do good works (giving to brothers in need) you will go to hell.
God gave us free will. To do good or bad. If you believe that if you are predestined by grace to be saved and do good works, then you don't believe in free will.
Which means god just sends people to hell arbitrarily.
Jackson Reyes
There is no free will mentioned in the Bible while predestination is very Biblical, you can't just ignore facts because you don't like them.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love Ephesians 1:4
Brody Gonzalez
So it conflicts with their belief that god is just?
Liam Long
No he doesn't. People condemn themselves to hell by their sins, God passes them over. The elect are the exception
Nicholas Howard
So are you free to choose goodness over sin or you are damned from birth?
Liam Sanchez
I've always been confused about this, if god is all powerful and knowing, and he created everything, how can we possibly have free will?
Hudson Allen
Man is totally depraved and only God's efficacious grace can save him.
Samuel Jenkins
Combatiblism
Asher Hernandez
That didn't answer the question.
Either you are saved or damned.
Either you have control over damnation or its determined for you.
Which is it?
Jack Hughes
Adam's sin damns, God's grace saves. You have no say in it.
Gabriel Brown
So, you should just kill yourself because it won't matter what you do?
Cooper Foster
Repent and believe the gospel.
Leo Bailey
Learn the difference between antecedent and consequent conditions.
To be fair, despite the lasting cultural legacy that Calvinism has left in the Anglophone world (and much of that legacy is terrible due to a number of historical reasons), there just aren't very many of them left to defend themselves. They're a convenient whipping boy in academia. There was something of a "resurgence" of "Calvinism" over the last decade or so, but it was so heavily evangelical and Baptist that it hardly has any connection to the genuine article. There are still traces of it left in the mainline Presbyterian church, but that denomination is so liberal that it's muddled with postmodern mush. And then there are the tiny populations of Orthodox Presbyterians, United Reformed, and the confessionalists still remaining in the PCA, CRCNA, RPCNA, and a few other denominations. There are many times more confessional Lutherans around than there are confessional Calvinists, and even THEY don't have much of a voice.
Oliver White
Thanks for linking that, first time I've actually heard of that weirdly. Although their definition of free will is not what I'm really getting at.
What the real problem to me is:
God created mankind and is all knowing. So as soon as created us he knew what would humans would do. And he didn't fix it.
Humans do bad things. Either god made us this way or did it by accident.
Parker Turner
He didn't cause it, he foresaw it and acted accordingly with his decree of predestination
Ryan Parker
Let's say you are destined to go to hell no matter what you do.
How would you feel? Imagine no matter how many good works you do, you are going to hell.
Imagine this is you now.
Samuel Morgan
Compatibilism is a modernist concept. I'm not terribly offended by the use of the term but it can be confused with deterministic categories which predestination would not conform to. The framework more closely aligned with scriptural teaching would be a Thomistic (rather than a Molinist or Suarist) version of concursus.
Jaxson Miller
If you truly are a reprobate you don't care until you get there Reprobates are rebels against God
Adam Watson
This logic.
Wouldn't the solution is to abort all babies and exterminate the human race to save as many souls as possible. Or does god send all unborn babies to hell?
Jack Stewart
Yes, but there must be temptation, or faith is senseless You don't know you're going to hell no matter what you do, it's just a later invention, so it's just best to do as many good works as you can >Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones
Zachary Hughes
Unborn babies can't repent, so they are punished for original sin.
Gavin Robinson
Well, that answer is highly cynical and assumes that man is inherently prone to evil
Quite like that, yes. And the author is quite correct to note the difference between the necessitarianism and compatibilism of Edwards and the older Calvinist tradition (although I would question whether these later categories of necessitarianism are applicable to Calvin, who was working in a time in which these later categories had yet to be developed), which quite frequently drew upon Thomistic and scholastic categories when they systematized their own theologies. Where the article you linked goes off the rails is when it attempts to derive soteriological conclusions from the Thomistic/Aristotelian assumptions of the early Calvinists. The Calvinists denied free will precisely in the realm of the generation of merit or true moral good before God, while at the same time holding to freedom of contradiction and freedom of contrariety in regard to particular action, and concurrence with regard to these priors in relation to divine providence. It's the realm of merit and salvation where, in the eyes of the Reformers, natural theology fails and we have to rely on the biblical evidence with regard to free will.
Aaron Robinson
I thought taking the bible literally was a sign of not understanding the bible?
John Price
We literally can't, look up Newcomb's paradox. Perfect predictors and free will are mutually exclusive.
Samuel Barnes
Autism
Isaac Perry
Peter you stellare the stone upon which i will set up this Chievo
Connor Martin
Kierkegaard's "Faith" ironically contradicts Sola Fide as the Reformed defines.
Grayson Long
The fact that the whole theme of "faith" in the Bible involves struggle, action and effort, it makes no sense to actually believe in Sola Fide as Protestants define it.
Go Calvinist and you end up making the Bible's stance on this ridiculous since why is there the need to tell someone to hold steadfast to their faith or to show faith with action or work out their salvation in fear and trembling when it is already assured?
Luther's Sola Fide makes sense somewhat but this is merely because his form of it is basically not quite Protestant
Jackson Mitchell
>Also, if I were to become a Catholic, would I need to be baptized again? Short answer: no. Catholic baptism is no go for proddies, but the opposite isn't true.
