Dacia

>judging by the reaction the romans had to Teutoburg
The reaction to Teutoburg was sending Germanicus to fuck their shit up. It's not really that different to Trajan fucking up Dacia.

Source? Half a million casualties on their side before the third one.

You mean foreign mercenaries?

Not entirely. But mercenaries are expensive, it only adds evidence to the contrary. Idk why you'd say they weren't taking it seriously. Unless maybe you're a carthaboo :^)

I'd say Carthage fought rather hard for a Hellenistic nation during the first Punic war but during the second one it seems like a war between the Barcid family and Rome while Carthage played along. Why didn't Carthage rebuild their navy after the first war was over? Why was there no conscription? Why did Carthage let Hannibal decide everything?

Idk. Plenty of wars turn out to be for the sake of a few. Carthage still poured large amounts resources into it regardless of detail.

>attack the romans
>they give you money and try to form an alliance with you
>have a hissy fit and and build an army to fight them again
>lose
>get fucking rekt hard
>lose all your lands resources
>live in destitute poverty for the next 1000 years

Rome didnt let them do that shit and Carthage was fine just trading and amassing lots of gold.

I suppose one shouldn't have expected anything of Carthage considering Syracuse was able to soundly defeat them several times.

Yeah, as I said, Deceballus strikes me as completely autistic. If he was smart he would've gone and conquered more people outside of the Roman Empire...

>mercenaries are expensive
not dead ones

Like...Where? North was god forsaken forest, West East and South was Roman.

So it was romans or god forsaken forest.

Go to the forest and export Timber and animal furs.

>fur and wood

The romans have gold tho

Decebal's logic everyone.

But do they have enough fur and wood?

The same direction Burebista went. Pannonia (not the roman owned part). Settle, create cities, put the newly conquered peoples to work and incorporate them into the army.

Not to mention he could've went into Ukraine - sparsely inhabited, but very rich land. Not sure if he viewed that as an option though.

>he could've went into Ukraine
And get raided by Sarmatians.

This was already happening afaik (getting raided by the sarmatians), but pushing the Sarmatians back wouldn't have been a complete impossibility and would have had benefits beyond just new land (modern Moldavia would have been safer, and as such would have been more prosperous)

>back wouldn't have been a complete impossibility
Even if you hit the plains of Ukraine?

>modern Moldavia would have been safer

Tell that to all the coastal Greek colonies on the coast there that got obliterated.

That sounds a lot more likely.

Does Moldovia even have a coast?

As I said, that would be in the case the Sarmatians would be pushed back, but I suppose coastal raids could still happen - did the Sarmatians really do that though?

I suppose that would prove an issue..

Well I meant the bit of coast just to the east of it that it must have been cucked out of and presumably still wants.

They didn't raid them from the sea. The Greek colonies were ON the northern Black Sea coasts, e.g. the cities of Nikonion, Olbia and Tyras.

you can use the equal trade of fur and wood to get gold tho

>They didn't raid them from the sea. The Greek colonies were ON the northern Black Sea coasts, e.g. the cities of Nikonion, Olbia and Tyras.
Figured, but wouldn't pushing the Sarmatians further into Ukraine make the region of Moldavia safer? It'd be harder to raid in that case.

Why the fuck would the Romans need more wood tho?

>They seemed to have been pretty prosperous and powerful
Seem like just one more barbarian tribe to me

Ships

Was there even an overland trade lime that though? Without a big ass river to float all those logs and furs down would a wagon train or something have worked?

Maybe through the Adriatic?

Danube>Black Sea>Mediterranean Sea>Italy

Yeah I guess that would have worked. Taken over a year though. Wood might start to rot...I'd wood.

How bout Dat falx eh?

>Carthage
>Hellenistic nation

Barbarians didn't usually build stone fortresses and capital cities, or do half the stuff that Dacia did. The fact that it is even called Dacia and not just "the Dacians" suggests that it wasn't just a bumfuck bunch of tribals, but a slightly less barbarous area.

It would, but it was pretty much impossible. The Iazyges, Carpi and Roxolani were all pretty competent at fighting and raiding so only got pushed out permanently when massive migrations occurred like the Goths and Slavs later in history.

>Why no conscripts
That's just they fought. They recognized that other cultures were better at specific aspects of war than them (Numidian/Iberian cavalrymen etc) and hired them for that specific purpose. Their fleets were manned by Carthaginians, because there were no better sailors than Phoenicians.
>Hannibal in charge
He was the leader of the pro-war party, and they were more influential within the Hundred and Four and Council of Nine. But the leader of the pro-war party, Hanno, was no fucking slouch either. He was only able to hamstring the war party once Hannibal left Carthage.
>No fleet rebuilding
Terms of the first treaty pre war, during the war; Hanno.
>Carthage a Hellenistic state
TOPFUKKENKEK

Are you retarded?

No, seriously. Are you mentally challenged? There's NOTHING to suggest they took those wars anything less than fucking seriously.

>Why didn't Carthage rebuild their navy after the first war was over?
Because they had zero fucking interest in war. Hannibal forced the issue. Eevn if they rebuilt the fleet, ONE battle or storm would be liable to inflict losses that Carthage-not the military, but Carthage-would need generations to recover from.

>Why was there no conscription?
Because carthage had a fairly small citizen population, and that small population got absolutely FUCKED by Syracuse last time it took the field. Another lost battle meant total demographic collapse.

>Why did Carthage let Hannibal decide everything?
Who the fuck was going to stop him? Mercenaries follow the man who hires them, not some distant city state.

Pushing back steppe nomads on theopen plain when your society fields an almost entirely unarmored army with few archers, and mediocre cavalry is utterly impossible.

They wouldn't even be able to FIELD an army, forage would prove too difficult away formthe coast.

>That's just they fought. They recognized that other cultures were better at specific aspects of war than them
It's more that they just lacked the manpower. Carthage was capable o fielding, at best, ONE army. And if it got wiped out, there goes the citizen base.

>The fact that it is even called Dacia and not just "the Dacians" suggests that it wasn't just a bumfuck bunch of tribals, but a slightly less barbarous area.
Yeah, just like Sarmatia, Scythia, Pannonia, Germania, Arabia, Alba, Hibernia... Oh wait.

>Who the fuck was going to stop him?
Let me rephrase that, if they had no interest in war why not just say, "we're not with that spain-crazy loon"?

Yeah guys but, how about Dat fucking FALX, eh?

Doesn't really work when Rome wants a war, user.

Rome was a predatory entity. It NEEDED war on a near constant basis to function, not just as a state, but as a society.

Iberia was valuable. Carthage wasn't going to give it up, and rome wouldn't let them keep it.

On top of that, it's not as though carthage was universally opposed to the war, or didn't think they could win.

The 104 were divided into opposing camps, Hannibal certainly thought he had the manpower to beat rome, and rome just didn't fucking care. Saguntum was just an excuse to beat the shit out of a people they knew they could beat, who'd managed ot take control of places that were making a LOT of money that could go to rome.

You also need to remember that a lot of things we know to be true weren't accepted at the time.

Hannibal, and , viewed war through a Hellenic lens, and assumed rome would simply quit after a few bad defeats, just like everyone else. The idea that this would be a total war wasn't understood until the losers had alread flopped their dicks out onto the table.

There was never a "kingdom of-" any of those places until at least the Early Middle Ages.