So, I keep hearing about the Frankfurt School and such and how it's a big Jewish conspiracy. What was the Frankfurt school really? Is there any validity yo the claim that Zionists had an influence in it? What came out of it and how did it influence education and politics? Was it da joos or not?
So, I keep hearing about the Frankfurt School and such and how it's a big Jewish conspiracy...
Blake Harris
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
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en.wikipedia.org
cdc.gov
cdc.gov
newpol.org
youtube.com
twitter.com
Aaron Gray
>The school's main figures sought to learn from and synthesize the works of such varied thinkers as Kant, Hegel, Marx, Freud, Weber, and Lukács
Freud, Marx, Lukács were all juice, Weber is not a joo himself, but he wrote Ancient Judaism
Herbert Marcuse, Max Horkheimer, Walter Benjamin, Erich Fromm, Siegfried Kracauer are juice.
Theodor W. Adorno, Friedrich Pollock, Leo Löwenthal's fathers are all "assimilated" joos, and Löwenthal's mother as well.
Jürgen Habermas is not a joo, however:
>In December 2000, in Paris, Habermas gave a lecture entitled "How to answer the ethical question?" at the Judeities. Questions for Jacques Derrida conference organized by Joseph Cohen and Raphael Zagury-Orly.
Alfred Schmidt, Axel Honneth are also not juice
Of the "notable theorists" 3 out of 11 are non-juice.
>What came out of it and how did it influence education and politics?
Marcuse is the father of the New Left in France, Germany and the US.
Adorno made attacking Western culture and Karl Popper the purpose of his existence, and propagandizing post-nazi German sins-of-the-father mentality regarding the Holocaust and modern so-called art.
>Perry Anderson sees Horkheimer's attempt to make the Institute purely academic as “symptomatic of a more universal process, the emergence of a ‘Western Marxism’ divorced from the working-class movement and dominated by academic philosophers and the 'product of defeat’” because of the isolation of the Russian Revolution
Benjamin wrote on the aestheticization of politics and
>The members [of the Internationale Walter Benjamin Gesellschaft] felt liberated to take Benjamin's ideas as a welcome touchstone for social change quality of Pop music for example
>Central to Fromm's world view was his interpretation of the Talmud and Hasidism
>Löwenthal [final survivor of FS’s inner circle] displayed an extraordinary ability to maintain close friendships with scholars in disparate fields and begin new ones with members of very different generations
Isaac Hall
Interesting. Any resources or links I can read?
Christopher Johnson
>Adorno made attacking Western culture
This is why he loved classical music and shat on jazz
Thomas Jenkins
To be honest with you I just checked the Wikipedia page for the FS, as well as the individual authors' biographies on the respective pages, look for the bibliography of each.
Here's a treat, from Kołakowski's huge Main Currents of Marxism vol. 3:
When we consider the place of the Frankfurt school in the evolution of Marxism, we find that its strong point was philosophical anti-dogmatism and the defence of the autonomy of theoretical reasoning. It freed itself from the mythology of the infallible proletariat and the belief that Marx's categories were adequate to the situation and problems of the modern world. It also endeavoured to reject all elements of varieties of Marxism that postulated an absolute, primary basis of knowledge and practice. It contributed to the analysis of 'mass culture' as a phenomenon that cannot be interpreted in class categories as Marx understood them. It also contributed to the critique of scientistic philosophy, by drawing attention (though in fairly general and unmethodical terms) to the latent normative assumptions of scientist programmes.
The Frankfurt philosophers were on weak ground, on the other hand, in their constant proclamation of an ideal 'emancipation' which was never properly explained. This created the illusion that while condemning 'reification', exchange-value, commercialized culture, and scientism they were offering something else instead, whereas the most they were actually offering was nostalgia for the pre-capitalist culture of an élite. By harping on the vague prospect of a universal escpae from present-day civilization, they unwittingly encouraged an attitude of mindless and destructive protest.
In short, the strength of the Frankfurt school consisted in pure negation, and its dangerous ambiguity lay in the fact that it would not openly admit this fact, but frequently suggested the opposite. IT was not so much a continuation of Marxism in any direction, as an example of its dissolution and paralysis.
Jackson Morris
My Judaism is too weak to understand what the fuck is going on in Adorno's mind:
>his emphasis on classical music is not tantamount to being a ‘cultural elitist’; rather it is about building an argument toward the reflective subject which tends to emerge from out of the complex construction and experience of classical music, whereas the listener of popular music tends to be subject to more of a passive or experientially stunted experience (a point I will further elaborate in a moment)
Classical music is: "I sit down, STFU, and obediently listen* to these skillful performers of the Big Deal Orchestra playing the national anthem and Wagner in the capital. Hail Victory!"
Pop music is: "The performer brings forward the mike and lets his audience sing a line or two in his place, they dance, they sing with him, the groupies scream to make sure everybody near them aren't allowed to hear anything."
*This was brought up in the first class of the Yale Open Course on listening to music with prof. Craig, pointing out how different is the approach with other cultures, for example what you would find in, say, local African tribe #3342, where everybody dances and sings - not just the authorized personnel.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU ADORNO
Camden Reed
It wasn't a conspiracy, just Jews being Jews.
Cameron Young
It's the Jews, always the Jews.
Asher Campbell
Adorno was Jewish. FACT.
Adorno hated the west. FACT.
Adorno wanted the white man gone. FACT.
Adorno started cultural marxism. FACT.
Adorno despised high culture, and wanted to brainwash the white people with degeneracy. FACT.
Aiden Wright
>degeneracy
Can you stop using this term?
Eli Jackson
Different user, but what's wrong with it? From the point of view of a even slightly conservative or traditionalist Western man, the political ideologies and actions of the Frankfurt school are very much degeneracy. Past values are seen as negative and must be torn down.
Alexander Ramirez
It's a meaningless, vague term overused by the Nazis and neofascists from /pol/
Liam Gutierrez
It's far from meaningless though.
>Having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline: a degenerate form of a higher civilization
As I said, from the point of view of a conservative person, what the Western world is facing right now is quite clearly degeneracy, which fitting to the thread is what the Frankfurt school attempts to drive.
>Nazis and neofascists
Oh please, stop with the buzzwords.
Aiden Hall
>showing evidence of decline: a degenerate form of a higher civilization
There was never a higher civilization than the modern Western one.
>buzzwords
Facts.
en.wikipedia.org
The Nazis loved applying this term to everything they hated and didn't understand. /pol/ is of course similar.
Asher Howard
You're a nu-male piece of shit nigger lover cuckold fucking beta lefty libtard faggot. FACT.
Nathaniel Walker
oxforddictionaries.com
Look at definitions 1 and 2.4 of degenerate:
>Having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline
>Having reverted to a simpler form as a result of losing a complex or adaptive structure present in the ancestral form
Clearly the Oxford English Dictionary must be a Hitlerite conspiracy
>higher civilization
No such thing, history is not a scoreboard, go back to /pol/
Robert Myers
>There was never a higher civilization than the modern Western one.
And the argument is that it's currently declining due to socioeconomical and cultural factors. The family unit has effectively been destroyed, third wave feminism and political correctness permeate many Western countries. Native populations are breeding under the replacement rate and inbred, low-IQ immigrants are being brought in to completely alter demographics, greatly increasing crime, forming ghettos and forever making European streets less safe.
Sex has been turned into a commodity, religion is no longer a cohesive force to bind society together and Western society in general has become hedonistic and materialistic.
>Facts.
>/pol/aks use the same term the Nazis did so they're nazis
That's some nice logic you got there.
Elijah Russell
a small group of people generated some largely irrelevant memes that /pol/ latched onto due to confirmation bias
Carson Nelson
>largely irrelevant memes
>father of the New Left
Camden Johnson
cdc.gov
Is about birth rates. I found nothing about:
the effects of (early) sexual promiscuity/activity on X
did you check the sources before posting this?
John Evans
The saddest thing is that some people actually believe that
Jackson Diaz
It's fucking true. FACT.
Logan Reed
Why did you post this? You know teenagers nowadays start having sex later than in the last 30-40 years?
Sebastian Brown
It's a mass of raw data from the CDC National Survey of Family Growth used in multiple studies/compilations, "linked" in the image.
I used to have links to a few studies using it but I've emptied my bookmarks. I'll see if I can still find atleast one of them.
Post me some sources.
Benjamin Roberts
Eli Clark
Is that it?
Clearly this 'progress' thing isn't working fast enough, it even looks like it's bouncing back.
Nathaniel Nguyen
Huh. Wonder what caused that. By all means sexual liberation and feminism should increase the amount of sexual relationships. Sure there isn't some statistical fuckery with polling occuring in different areas?
Logan Gutierrez
>By all means sexual liberation and feminism should increase the amount of sexual relationships.
Not really. Feminism means boys learning to respect girls, and girls respecting themselves.
Carson Garcia
Feminism is the mistake of thinking that women are equal to men.
Colton Martinez
>girls respecting themselves
By doing what, remaining virgins?
Are you sure you don't mean medieval Catholicism?
Kevin Russell
No. What caused it is that kids are more educated about sex now than in the past, in a classroom setting rather than in a locker room setting.
Wyatt Ortiz
>So, I keep hearing about the Frankfurt School and such and how it's a big Jewish conspiracy.
So stop going to /pol/.
>What was the Frankfurt school really
Socialism and internationalism.
>Is there any validity yo the claim that Zionists had an influence in it
No, nationalist racial supremacists aren't interested in internationalism. It is the ideological opposition of it.
>What came out of it and how did it influence education and politics
Globalism came out of it, and nationalism leaving the education system is the result.
>Was it da joos or not
No, as it never is. /pol/ loves them and thinks them much more organized and powerful than they are.
Strange that the openly anti-semite board of Veeky Forums would hold the jews in such high regard and think them so able.
Asher Young
>By doing what, remaining virgins?
Until they actually want to have sex, yes.
Logan Richardson
Nothing changes, then.
Jack Kelly
The thing is, here is a group of professed anti-capitalists, anti-American, and yet they were given jobs at some of the best universities in America and grants from some of the wealthiest foundations. It is known that the authoritarian personality was commissioned by the Rockefeller foundation. Adorno lived on the dime of the Rockefellers. How do you explain this? Are Americans insane? Are capitalists working against themselves?
Jace Nguyen
>Are capitalists working against themselves?
What they want is what actual anti-capitalists call 'commodified revolution.'
Owen Jones
Concerning zionism in the FS, here's the conclusion of this review of The Frankfurt School, Jewish Lives and Antisemitism:
The third and last chapter deals with the attitude of the Frankfurt School to Zionism and the State of Israel. Jacobs comes to the surprising conclusion that those members of the ISR who had strong religious and cultural connection to Judaism, such as Erich Fromm, were hostile to Zionism and Israel, considered to be contradictory to the teachings of the Prophets and to the Messianic promise of universal redemption. Fromm supported the movement Ichud, created by Magnes and Buber, who proposed a bi-national solution for Palestine. On the other hand, those who had little relation to Jewish tradition, such as Herbert Marcuse, were supportive of the Israeli state, even if they had strong criticisms of its policies. Löwenthal and Horkheimer fell somewhere in between these two poles.
At the end of this important and insightful book, Jack Jacobs concludes: One cannot explain Critical Theory by reference solely to Judaism, but one cannot explain the lives of the Frankfurt School’s key writers without dealing with their Jewish roots.
newpol.org
>No, nationalist racial supremacists aren't interested in internationalism. It is the ideological opposition of it.
Jacobs here begs to differ, it's the lack of secularism that opposes zionism
Justin Thomas
>Capitalists
There's your mistake. You see Fascism and Marxism as coherent (okay well, we can debate their coherency, but they think they're coherent) movements advocating the doing of certain things for certain reasons to achieve a certain goal. They are ideologies that promote certain things and say everything will be good if we follow these things. There are people who adhere to these ideologies and want to make them a reality. They actively work (Or desire to work) towards the creation of a world/nation that lives by the principles of their ideology.
"Capitalism" is not an ideology. It is the result of people being allowed to control their own consumption and production. No one advocates towards capitalism because the only real tenets it has are "people control their own consumption and production". Fascism and Communism have strict doctrine and many tenets and if in the process of enacting them something goes wrong is is the fault of the individuals, not the fault of the ideology. This is not the case of Capitalism, as Capitalism has economics, a science built around understanding the movements of money, goods, services, capital, etc. If something goes wrong, economists study what the individuals did and alter their theories (predictive models) accordingly. In this way "Capitalism" will openly change and alter itself to better explain reality whereas other ideologies will not dare to do so as they already correctly describe reality. "Capitalism" is inherently flawed working towards an asymptotic perfection, while Fascism and Communism are never flawed, only people are.
So no. "Capitalists" aren't working against their own interests. It's just what people want to buy and produce changes and can be influenced. And, of course, the Rockefellers, Soros, the Rothschilds, etc don't really want "Capitalism", they want Feudalism with themselves at the top and use "Capitalism" as a way to get there, so the point is moot.
Cooper King
Good post.
Nathan Cox
A bunch of postmodern idiots that decided to merge the worst parts of marx with the pseudoscience that is psychoanalysis and helped destroy the left. Ironically, even though they are a cancer to the left and are barely related to classical marxism, /pol/tards built a huge conspiracy around them, mainly because most of them are jews.
Robert Allen
So is the conspiracy against the left?
Cooper Garcia
There is no conspiracy, there's a bunch of continental retards that like obscurantist philosophy and psychoanalysis (as a lot of other continentals do outside of the frankfurt school), and a bunch of conspiranoid retards on the other side that believe in infographics from chinese cartoon forums.
Carter Brooks
Then how did they destroy the left if they're no conspiracy?
Gabriel Gutierrez
I wouldn't really call it an organised conspiracy, but it's hard to deny that the economical leftism has been mostly ditched in favor of fighting for trans bathrooms.
Jordan Gonzalez
You don't need to be part of a conspiracy to believe in cancerous ideas and spread them.
Nathan Hill
And how is this message different from /pol/'s?
Do you really believe that people like Adorno who dedicated their lives redesign the way fascism and antisemitism are understood and fought wouldn't make /pol/ and their ilk upset about them, just as you are concerned about what happened to the left?
What if I told you these people who "believe in cancerous ideas and spread them", involving the critique of Western civilization, has bipartisan consequences?
Evan Cox
I don't see your point. Should i accept obscurantist, alienating, antiscientific ideas just because they upset the right wing?
Julian Perez
show me a part of adorno that is anti-scientific or purposefully obscure
Mason Fisher
My point is that, if in their attempt to fight the far right when Hitler was still alive they manage to destroy the left as collateral damage, they clearly are cancerous, and dangerous people indeed.
Do you believe such pseudoscientific agitators should not be given the prestigious academic positions as points out to you?
Do you perhaps "accept obscurantist, alienating, antiscientific ideas" being rewarded like that, or do you find suspicious that such a thing would happen quickly and with such lack of meaningful resistance?
Can't you see how much you seem to state exactly the same thing as what /pol/'s been howling all this time, with or without 'Chinese cartoons'?
You're in perfect agreement, minus the far right part.
Jace Baker
Yes, many of them were Jewish, or of Jewish origin, but there was no grand conspiracy. As other anons have said, many of them were secular, and the ones that weren't usually had esoteric, mystical beliefs on Judaism (Benjamin, Fromm). For instance, Walter Benjamin was into Kabbalah and may have believed he was the reincarnation of a famous 17th century rabbi.
Many of their criticisms were aimed at capitalism and the Western culture of the time, specifically that which emanated from America. They also saw traditional Marxism as outdated and viewed the Soviet Union as a failure. If you read Adorno, for instance, it seems his greatest fear is that Western capitalism will lead us to a Brave New World-type reality.
The only one of the FS who probably is an appropriate target of right-wing hate is Herbert Marcuse, who was ironically probably the most distant from Judaism of all of them. He was a major founder of the New Left in the US and Europe during the 1960s (his book, One Dimensional Man, was highly influential), and he wrote that a group of radical intellectuals, social outcasts, and disaffected minority groups should overthrow mainstream society. His end goal seemed to be a world with no social norms, rules, etc., which would obviously entail the total destruction of traditions and culture. Contrast this with Adorno, who seemed to be concerned that modern capitalism was destroying culture.
Anthony Morgan
>anti-scientific
Well, he's a Marxist.
Christopher Sullivan
I wasn't referring specifically about adorno, but i already mentioned psychoanalisis as a pseudoscience, and generally speaking could add dialectics. Not to mentions their explicit rejection of reason. Of course, given this rejection, their work is usually very informal with poorly defined terms.
Jose Martin
I don't know about Adorno, but Herbert Marcuse WAS a part of a real conspiracy. He was on Soviet payroll and personally schooled American "revolutionaries" such as Angela Davis and other Black Panthers who wanted to start an armed conflict in the US along racial and class lines.
So I'm not sure whether ALL Frankfurt School members were a part of some sinister plot, but some of them certainly were.
Hudson Martin
I do believe soft sciences and philosophy could "accept obscurantist, alienating, antiscientific ideas" with no conpiracy in between. The frankfurt school is one among many others. I'm in agreement in the sense that we both reject them, sure.
Owen Garcia
If you dig deep enough you realize most people don't actually follow their ideology with conviction.
>Trump says jobs need to be brought back to America, yet he manufactures his shit in China.
>Rousseau wrote entire books about how to properly raise a child, yet he abandoned all of his kids and threw them to the orphanage
>Hoppe is an anarcho-capitalist completely detesting everything about government and public funding, yet he's employed by a state school
etc
Christian Morgan
I'm sorry if I seem like uninformed about this, but:
>If you read Adorno, for instance, it seems his greatest fear is that Western capitalism will lead us to a Brave New World-type reality.
But didn't critical theory and it's branches bring about an even bigger sense of alienation and abandonment of traditional values? Our society today is even closer to BNW than Adorno's
Sexual Revolution, emancipation of women and abandonment of spirituality in favor of materialist existence, weren't all these stimulated by the Frankfurt School?
Brody Murphy
I respect Hoppe even despite his shittyness, because he has enough brain cells to realize how would ancap society really look like
Brayden Brown
Leszek Kołakowski described Marcuse's views as essentially anti-Marxist, in that they ignored Marx's critique of Hegel and discarded the historical theory of class struggle entirely in favor of an inverted Freudian reading of human history where all social rules could and should be discarded to create a "New World of Happiness". Kołakowski concluded that Marcuse's ideal society "is to be ruled despotically by an enlightened group [who] have realized in themselves the unity of Logos and Eros, and thrown off the vexatious authority of logic, mathematics, and the empirical sciences."
Mason Rivera
Well he's less utopian and more of an unapologetic cunt, yeah. And he's very smart too, Democracy the god that failed is a great book. I was just pointing out his hypocrisy.
Grayson Ross
Any actualy arguments?
Logan Sanders
wait
what's the FS for then? Those /pol/ tier conspiracies about dismantling the West's culture and tradition to create a society of sheep?
The way I understand it, it uses capitalist society to achieve the purpose of alienating people and making them hate tradition
is that right?
or am i being mem'd?
Daniel Davis
Also, is it behind the anti-scientific movement today?
Wyatt Kelly
You're learning history/philosophy from /pol/
Of course you're being memed
Jacob Morris
>be /pol/tard
>be a virgin
>blame an obscure group of thinkers with varying ideologies for your social ineptitude
This is why the Frankfurt School is believed to be a conspiracy.
Mason Watson
>be a virgin
Nice strawman.
Nicholas Perry
>
what's the FS for then?
Somebody did find a use, see It's capitalists reverse engineering marxism on one hand, and fascist propaganda on the other, to fuck proles over and for the profit of big companies.
Yes, capitalists could always use a society of consumeristic, materialistic, anti-reason, anti-science, sheep, full of false consciousness that could never rebel against them, and divided so they fight one another instead of the root of the problem.
We've established a few posts that they're hated, as they should be, by both commies and fascists, given who's doing the backing: Marcuse's New World of Happiness? You're living it, you're welcome.
Justin Ward
That's ad hominem, kiddo
Not defending him, but you should at least read your own sticky
Adam Rodriguez
>implying ad hominem and strawman are mutual exclusives
It's both.
Juan Morales
*a few posts above
Samuel Wright
Strawman is substituting your opponent's actual argument with a different-but-usually-related, weaker argument and refuring that instead. Calling you a virgin is not arguing in any way, shape, or form, it's simply hurling insults. It's not even remotely a strawman.
Cameron Miller
You got meme'd quite mercilessly, next time actually read the authors you're discussing rather than relying on retards from the heavily biased internet forums
Ethan Foster
I think you're right that we're even closer to BNW than we were when Adorno was writing.
However, I wouldn't pin that on critical theory, so much as I would pin it on Marcuse's ideas about the liberating potential of the New Left being completely wrong; instead it just led to greater materialism. His tactics were fairly orthodox Marxist-Leninist, just with a different group than a "vanguard party" to lead the "dictatorship of the proletariat", which for Marcuse would basically be if our policies and laws were dictated by academic SJW caricatures until we get to the New World of Happiness (so you know that he would be one of those enlightened despots, much lIke Lenin).
There's also what this user said ; Marcuse was much more of an activist than other FS members, who were content to write. Adorno seemed fairly pessimistic, as though capitalism was a foregone conclusion and there was nothing that could be done to stop it.
Sebastian Anderson
I didn't know that classical Marxists didn't like the Frankfurt School.
So, seeing as the left has gone full SJW, full post-modern, full globalist, full pro-big capital, full pro mass immigration,
Seeing as the working class opposes mass immigration (see Brexit and any poll on mass immigration made in Western European countries), and seeing as they are dispised by the cosmopolitan petty bourgeoisie, the media and academia, and despise them back
Seeing all this,
Marxist-Leninist + Alt-Right alliance against the NWO, globalism and mass-immigration and in favor or the working class when?
Jose Ward
I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Right-wing, especially alt-right ideologies, are in direct opposition to Marxism.
Kevin Rodriguez
>Marxist Leninists
Those were some of the biggest heralds of degeneracy
Isaac Gonzalez
>critique consumerism as a cancer that is undermining Western Culture
>get called a "kike degenerate" that undermines Western Culture by /pol/tards
>mfw
Christopher Sullivan
>Implying
Samuel Powell
Well in fairness the art they deemed 'degenerate' was utter dross. Look up Dadaism for a fun time
Levi Miller
Triggered
Nathaniel Evans
if you youtube cultural marxism pat buchannan they made an hour and a half long documentary on it.
Owen Howard
...
Grayson Allen
What's there to get triggered by other than Duchamp's Fountain?
Lucas Evans
A lot of work went into this considering it just results in preaching to the choir.
Anyone you're trying to convert will see the neo-nazi dogwhistles and ignore it, the rest just won't understand.
Elijah White
This is some high quality tinfoil chart.
You can literally replace the words at top with capitalism or any other ideology and it'll be the same.
Robert Williams
Damn, this pretty grimly defines the intentions of the alt right. At the top, using freedom as a selling point and by the bottom going full nrx. A+ satire, unless it's serious, in which case Jesus Christ.
Blake Gomez
/leftypol/ is on some serious damage control ITT
>hur dur cultural marxism is a conspiracy
>muh bourgeoisie is oppressing me
Carson Wilson
...
Parker Jenkins
>morality is objective but degeneracy of such objective morales is impossible because it opposes my liberal ideology and egalitarianism
Fuck off nu male
Juan Gutierrez
>inb4 you reply to this 3 days later when I forgot about this post
If you think humans have morality without religion then there are things in modern times that could be seen as degenerate by those objective morals which have noting to do with religion
Hunter Kelly
>implying their Jewishness had to do with anything
>pinning an entire ethnicity as Saturday morning cartoon villains
>thinking that they care so much about YOU that millions of individuals would meet together, wring their hands, and snark laudibly as they talk about the elimination of the White Aryan Race
>not the fact that you're a fucking loser on a Javanese wall paintings chatterbox who's jelly at the fact that kikes have accomplished more than their fat, greasy ass ever will
Ethan Kelly
Replace the words to do with 'Jew' and 'white Aryan Race' with 'bourgeoisie' and 'proletariat'. All of a sudden it is no longer a tinfoil meme to leftycucks.
>also, implying that Jews don't think they are muh chosen people
Thomas Morris
>that pic
Source?
Sebastian King