Did iberians intermarry moors?

this one is pretty close

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty

of course.

First things first: some clarficiation. Mouro/moro/[insert regional word for Moor here] had NO racial or ethnic connotation. It simply and literally meant "Muslim," which might be a reference to an Arab oligarch, a Berber, or a native Iberian convert to Islam. The idea of the Moor as an Arab, Turk, or sub-Saharan African specifically was a later addition when the word was introduced to the English language.

We can almost certainly rule out any widespread intermarriage between native Iberians and Arabs, not only because this is in accordance with our current understanding of the Iberian genotype but also because we know that the Arab oligarchy was extremely clannish and jealously guarded their social position from out-groups like Iberians and Berbers, the latter in particular being considered members of a sort of lower caste.

A great portion of the Berbers who migrated into Iberia as mercenaries (such as those initially brought over by Tariq ibn Ziyyad in 711) were expelled. After the spread of the heretical Kharijitism which rejected an Arab-dominated Islam, as well as the exasperation resultant to constantly being relegated to the fringes of society (i.e., to Galicia and elsewhere) the Berbers led a series of rebellions against the Arab oligarchy culminating in 741-42. They were crushed and expelled to their stronghold in Morocco. There is North African admixture in Iberians, the frequency of which varies from region to region, but this is prehistoric in origin. There is little if any evidence of intermixing between the two in the Middle Ages.

(cont.)

The majority of Moors were, in fact, Iberian converts to Islam. Islam spread rapidly, both among the Visigothic aristocracy and the old Hispano-Roman families, as well as the native Iberian majority. The Visigoths (specifically the Witiza-supporters who opened the gates to the Moors in the first place) converted after being showered with lavish grants of land after their participation in the wholesale extermination of the Rodrigans (their Arianist history probably made their conversions all the more seamless). Native Iberians typically converted to escape servitude on the latifundia or the jizya. Some scholars, like Stanley G. Payne, place a significant part of the blame on the Iberian Church for not clearly defining what Christianity actually WAS, thus many commoners probably thought Islam was little more than some sect of Christianity and converted out of ignorance.

The truth is that we simply don't know how common it was for a native Iberian Christian to marry a native Iberian Muslim. This isn't something that is quantifiable genetically and, if there are any records of such marriages, I have heard of none of them.

For my own part, I offer my own genetics for scrutiny. I'm half Portuguese. It's anecdotal, I know, but it is a representation of the broader Iberian genotype. Modern Iberians are, in majority, descended from native Iberians.

no

you had many laws of "purez del sangre"

pretty sure hes talking about muslim iberia, you know the one time spain was civilized

if you have to make laws to forbide people to mix, is because they are mixing.

Iberians have less problems with it, thats why they mixed with the natives in america; unlike the anglos.

>We can almost certainly rule out any widespread intermarriage between native Iberians and Arabs, not only because this is in accordance with our current understanding of the Iberian genotype but also because we know that the Arab oligarchy was extremely clannish and jealously guarded their social position from out-groups like Iberians and Berbers, the latter in particular being considered members of a sort of lower caste.

Not exactly. I'm familiar with the above argument, but it's a bit outdated at this point especially since it's based mostly on Arabic sources some centuries later in a highly charged political and ethnic climate where ethnic purity and caste began to become a major issue.

Nothing islamic is glorious kek its all trash

If it were false then this would necessarily be reflected in genetics, but it's not. Whatever the reason, if the Arabs mixed with Iberians (if), then it left only a negligible footprint on the Iberian genotype.

Generally, no.
Moors have no genetic significance in Spain.

Can you read retard? Look at The amount of Berber admixture in Iberians ranges between 10% and 20% for Iberia, being highest in the west, and most notably Galicia and Cantabria with significant admix.
Basques have none though.

The genetic admixture predates the Moorish Spain. The actual contribution of Moors while they were already Islamized was minimal.

>their Arianist history probably made their conversions all the more seamless

Never though of that, but this makes sense and generally fills the pattern of islamization in other places. In Syria the first to convert were Syriacs and other groups persecuted by Byzantines, while Orthodoxes clinged to their faith. Same with the Balkans and Bogomils.

No it doesn't though. Some of it is archaic I'll give you that but a big part of it isn't.
Read the literature on the subject.

Can YOU read? I already addressed this in my first post. This comes from prehistory, as in 12-14,000 years ago. It had nothing to do with Moors.

I can't take credit for that. That's another one of Payne's assertions but I had the same reaction as you. The Rodrigans were the main Catholic wing of the Visigoths and their leadership was systematically assassinated by the Witizans.

>If it were false then this would necessarily be reflected in genetics
Not really, since as you yourself put it the influence was negligible and for a good reason: there weren't that many Arabs to begin with. We're talking maybe in the tens of thousands most likely. This isn't evidence that there was no widespread intermarriage between native Iberians and Arabs, but that the Arab population that did marry was very small to begin with.

And if they didn't, it would contradict the fact that the "Arab" population of Andalusia during the period where the Moorish elite began to write extensively of their heritage and ethnic purity was fairly large. As you say, most Moors were ethnic Iberians who converted, but that doesn't mean most early Arab settlers kept to themselves and did not intermarry locally. On the contrary, the large number of converts points to extensive intermarriage whereby Iberian Moorish families became Moors in the first place because of an ancestor who married one from which they would claim ultimate descent. We see this exact same pattern on the complete opposite end of the early Caliphate where a minority Arab population in Khorasan and Khwarezm heavily mixed with native families to create a mostly Persian Muslim society with some Arab ancestry.

>Never though of that, but this makes sense and generally fills the pattern of islamization in other places.

I disagree. Islamization in Syria, Spain, and other places had little to do with confessional loyalties and more to do with cultural hegemony. Arian and Syriac Christianity wouldn't affect this, and instead simply denote the existence of a culture or ethnicity that is opposed to the culture or ethnicity of their neighboring, erstwhile overlords. There's not that much evidence of lingering Arian sympathies on the eve of the Arab invasion or mass conversions of Syriac Christians to Islam either, and if anyone had little clue about the nature and intricacy of a religion, it would be non-Muslims on their knowledge of Islam at this time.

This is a fucking IBD study. IBD==Identical by descent. This is not just a fucking admixture study.
The only count big shared segments of DNA. Segments as big as those they studied DO NOT survive for that fucking long. They only study recent shared ancestry and I already specified it.
Also, even the archaic admixture isn't fucking 14k years old. I hope you're aware how fucking different Europe was before the neolithic. Genomes sequenced from even 10k year old specimens in Iberia have NO resemblance to modern day Iberians, they're far far out from the current day variation of West Eurasians. The archaic genetic exchange with North Africa is rather from around 4000-2000 years ago, and that's not even what this fucking study looks for. Read the damn study they even dated the admixture.

I read this on wikipedia so don't quote me on this

The spanish government discovered like5 million iberia descendants in Morocco so there are probably a lot in the penninsula

God what a semen demon, I can see the moorish/visigothic genes

Yes also the southern ports of Iberia have the highest amounts of ssa ancestry in Europe.

>retard
> ssa ancestry
double retard, kys jamal.

You know why: all these illegal immigrants from africa working on plantages in Andalusia. No Wonder that they share dna with there peoples in SSA