How can you be this shit of a dictator?

He was good, he just made a few stupid decisions such as allying with G*rmany.

because to even insinuate that Italians are in any way deserving to be called human is laughable, let alone leaders.

The Wehrmacht would've been better off turning their guns to rid the world of these vermin, the Russians could wait.

And destroying Italy's economy

>And destroying Italy's economy

Proofs?

Mussolini made the Great Depression.

1929 was an inside job.

t. just finished 3rd grade
Before him, there WASN'T any such "italian economy". I'm not saying he was an economical miracle worker, but his protectionist policies helped mitigate 1929's Wallstreet crack by a great margin.

Sniff sniff I smell a butthurt ethiopian.

Not the same user, but Mussolini's "battle of the grain" hurt local italian agrarian export goods production, one of the things that today makes Italy renowned (food/cuisine).
Plus the war with Ethiopia brought on Italy LoN's sanctions which forced the country to autarchy, Mussolini's lost of his role of "balance needle", allying Germany and WW2.

No son, no. The LoN was a meme just as the UN nowadays: "strongly-worded letters" were sent, Haile Selassie was invited to hold several speeches about freedom etc. etc.; but the sanctions were never really impactful. Nobody was interested in hampering their commerce (just pointing out that sanctions hurt both parties) by imposing restrictions on italian trade over some noname african nation with neglectible strategical utility (and no oil). The sanctions WERE put into place, but really just for appearance and pretty late into the war, and lifted immediately after its end. Yes they did eventually drive Italy closer to germany, but that's really only tangentially mussolini's fault. Please note that I am not excusing the war upon ethiopia.

Yeah, I know about the "LoN meme", but even if the sanctions were put only as an appearence, they eventually dragged Italy into autarchy and the war economy.
>Please note that I am not excusing the war upon ethiopia.
No need to specify, as long as the discussion doesn't turn /pol/itical

To be perfectly honest, I'm partial mussolini felt the need for autarchy starting 1929, considering his protectionist drive that, as I previously stated, actually helped mitigate the effects of Wall Street somewhat (also due to Italy's economical backwardness, which made it less interwined with glibal finance). Of course the sanctions only exasperated his feelings on the matter.
Regarding "/pol/itics", I tend to leave them outside of history whenever possible, but I can't help get butthurt over SOME EGREGIOUS CONTRIBUTIONS to this thread.

Yes, during the Great Depression autarchy may have been a form of "solution". In the end my point is that Mussolini had his ideas/plans, not all turned out to be great ones.
Plus what "triggered" me mostly was the:
>"Mussolini was good for Italy's economy"
Which is very similar of what you can hear be said by many ignorant italians
>hurr durr, when there was Him the trains arrived on time
For what concerns these "gentlemen" I agree with you, sometimes I wish Veeky Forums wasless a meme

As always, truth lies in the middle. Mussolini didn't do miracles for the italian economy, but surely didn't leave it worse off than he found it, either. If anything, for the enormous boost the heavy industry had because of the war. Yes he heavily neglected some industrial sectors (high tech ones for example - italy went to war without the radar - cue Cape Matapan), but also funneled a lot of resources into the ones he thought strategical, that can't be denied.

At the end Italy exited WW2 damaged, only to be greatly boosted by the Marshall plan and and live a literal economic boom. It is kind of strange how losing the war was actually good for the country.

Not insofar as politics are concerned. I know I said /pol/itics are better left outside of historical discussions, but it's undisputable the sector we paid the highest toll in was political democracy (which is ironic since we had just exited a dictatorship). Not sure what your knowledge in contemporary italian politics is, but let's just summarize the 1950-1980 period with "you think you are in charge? Nah bruh, we are the CIA". We have experienced an Iran-level (hyperbole) of political interference for 30 years, that's no small price for a newfound democracy to pay.

This

Well with Italy being in the middle of the eastern and western block during the cold war, it was kind of predictable that the USA will have played a big role in its politics.

>Not sure what your knowledge in contemporary italian politics is
I'm italian, for what it's worth

i think you are reading this the other way around: I'm doing my thesis on this and it was basicaclly DC that said '' we are in need of money or commie will win'' and USA was in the midlle of the Red fear, they started giving money even before ERP (marshall plan started)started.
check NSC 1-01 from Foreing Affeair of 1948 in regards of Italy
Italy (and France) basically played in the middle to get money and keep doing what they wanted (FIAT exported cars to fucking Russia in 1966).
Dc basically owned italy, with the help of USA, but doing their own business

Of course I don't claim to hold the truth about what happened back then, but it's undisputable the USA had some heavy ingerence on political matters even without DC's consent, unless you're arguing the DC commissioned the assassination of one of its secretary general. Also it is my personal opinion it was USA-fueled political manicheism (capitalism vs communism) who prompted DC's request for USA's "political sponsoring" in the first place. It's doubtful it was a programmatic DC goal to legitimize itself as the "only" real trustworthy political party from the start. There WAS a "grace period" (45-48) in where political ideologies coexisted in the wake of italy's newfound democracy, but as the USA turned to demonize comunism, the DC and the PCI found themselves rival (i'm oversimplifying to the extreme, of course it's not the USA's fault the DC and the PCI had their break-out,it was inevitable). What the USA DID was turning the PCI into an de facto-unelectable party, thereforce paving the way for a pluri-decade-spanning DC "egemony". Ok, nothing REALLY bad so far. But then the CIA starts funding black (and subsequently red) terrorism to (possibly) drive home a right-wing coup d'etat, which was also in the talks with the then president (Leone if memory serves me correctly), together with exponents of the DC. This coincidentially with the rise in prominence of tge PCI. The USA were willing to turn us into a failed junta state for the sake of keeping "le bad commies" out of politics, irregardless of Berlinguer's efforts to distance the party from the USSR (euro communism). And when a solition is devised to form a DC-PCI governing majority, the CIA (because let's not kid ourselves, it was the CIA) orders tge kidnapping of Moro and his subsequent eliminations (arguable). Again, this is merely my opinion.

...

tl;dr Italy became an Atlanticist puppet

Let's all praise the abolition of national freedom.

Dem trains tho

say what you want about Mussolini but at least the memes ran on time

It's only propaganda-imbued millennials and baby boomers oblivious to the political situation of their upbringing that blindlessy praise the pax americana and the american's way of life. Ok, it is disingenious to say "it's only" because that's like 95% of the population (and that tells you about the power of propaganda), but at least people have the freedom to inform themselves (or really just attend any non-pleb high school) about how close we came to chile 2.0, solely (not really but almost) due to CIA ingerence.
Yes, we did become NATO puppets, but worse fates could have befell us.

>my leash hurts but at least it's not that tight

If Mussolini had continued to be anti-Hitler he would be seen a hero.

I mean yeah, that's the literal thing. Let's not fool ourselves and think a country such as Italy could be left to its own devices given its strategic location, proximity to the iron curtain, relative power of the national communist party and inherent problems (mafia, social divide, precarious post war economy, just abolished monarchy...). USA control started off as post war relief, devolved into programmatical party funding and ended up as de facto dominance over the secret services. What it did was trying to prepare for the eventuality of the necessity of a coup. At times they even purposefully tried to lay the fundations of it. At that can't be excused. But I guess in the end the skill of italian statists coupled with the common sense on american part made it so that we pulled trough without any need for drastic actons. I'm sleep deprived and I dont know if this makes any sense so lets just sum it up as I personally hate America but in the end they didnt really screw up my country as they could have so I'm willing to cut them some slack.

You could have ended up like a Middle Eastern state. Now that would give you reason to really hate America.

Yes, and my point is that I hate them for what they did and what they had the power to turn us into, if they so wanted. And also because the general populace is blissfully ignorant about this and praises america's cock every other breathing second.

He did the best he could with Italy, but unfortunately it was full of Italians.

This. Just like Hitler tried to kill all the Jews, he should have tried to kill all the Italians

Thanks for the contribution /pol/tards, better luck next time.

>implying modern italians aren't shit-tier
>implying their military wasn't a joke that got btfo in every conflict they found themselves in
>implying italians didn't do the most out of any country in helping the allies win the war

>implying italians didn't do the most out of any country in helping the allies win the war

True, Italy was the one of the greatest asset to the allies in the war.

But Italy defeated the Austro-Hungarian Empire and practically ended WWI

You're saying the third point as it was a bad thing
Wheraboo spotted, easy enough. Besides, I won't even bother refuting your other two """"points""" because it's b8 of the lowest quality. Have a pleasant day /pol/cuck.

triggered the spaghettinigger

also im not even white lmao and probably would've been gassed by hitler

>Italian """military"""

Serious question: Why are Italians such utter trash when it comes to fighting?

They are lovers not fighters

Whatever you say, /pol/cuck
I would love to confirm that but I'm 23 an a virgin :(

/thread

>back then
pretty sure it still is now m8

Romans would be (are) turning in their graves.

>mfw all the Fascistboo /pol/kiddies in this thread who don't know just how terrible a fucking ruler Mussolini was

>it's another "italians 'n wars lul" meme thread
Oh well at least I had some meaningful conversation among the retardment of this thread.

>retardment

He wasn't good, but he wasn't bad either. You seem to misunderstand why people think good of him: it's not because he held the elixir of good governance, but because he provided solid and stable governance in the first place (">lol it was a dictatorship" well yeah of course, and that's what italy needed in that timeframe). Before him governments fell any other day. Quite literally.

>Germany plans to invade Romania to secure oil fields
>Germany delivers these plans to the Italian attaché
>Italian diplomat forgets to notify Italian High Command
>Germany invades Romania
>Italy furious, how could Germany act without consulting its ally!
>Italy invades Greece out of spite, gets BTFO
>Greeks push the Italians back 80 km into Italian-occupied Albania
>Germany has to bail out Italians, diverting precious material meant for the African campain/Barbarossa buildup to this new theatre

>Italy declares war on Britain
>Italians forget to notify their own troops
>Brits rush in and capture a string of fortifications while Italian forces stand around and look confused
>"Don't worry, our army in Italian East Africa is huge! We'll mop up those Brits in no time and regain what we have lost"
>Forget that Italian East Africa is supplied through the Suez Channel
>Which is held by England
>approx. 700.000 man-strong army withers away to nothing within weeks
>Italian Supreme Commander is killed in the first week of combat when his plane is shot down by Italian AA crews

dem Italians man, dem Italians

Shame Italo Balbo had to go, he was THE most plausible alternative to Benny (and a more moderate leader at that).
Also, cut some slack to the duke of aosta, he was a badass through and through:
"In January 1941, the British launched a counter-invasion and the Italians went on the defensive in East Africa. The Italians fought throughout February. But, after fierce resistance, the Battle of Keren ended in Italian defeat,[4] the rest of Eritrea, including the port of Massawa, fell quickly. On 31 January, the Duke of Aosta reported that the Italian military forces in East Africa were down to 67 operational aircraft with limited fuel stocks. With supplies running low and with no chance of re-supply, the Duke of Aosta opted to concentrate the remaining Italian forces into several strongholds: Gondar, Amba Alagi, Dessie, and Gimma. He himself commanded the 7,000 Italians at the mountain fortress of Amba Alagi. With his water supply compromised, surrounded, and besieged by 9,000 British and Commonwealth troops and more than 20,000 Ethiopian irregulars, the Duke of Aosta surrendered Amba Alagi on 18 May 1941. Due to the gallant resistance of the Italian garrison, the British allowed them to surrender with honours of war.[5][6]"

Italian page is even more detailed, I can attempt a translation if you're not just here for the "xdxd le italians amirite?" memes.

I'd read it.

>back then
>third world
george washington was a leftist

For his time.

Italians are just a meme

He didn't listen to the good persons

cit. wikipedia:
Amedeo si asserragliò dal 17 aprile al 17 maggio 1941 sull'Amba Alagi con 7.000 uomini, una forza composta da carabinieri, avieri, marinai della base di Assab, 500 soldati della sanità e circa 3.000 militari delle truppe indigene. Lo schieramento italiano venne ben presto stretto d'assedio dalle forze del generale Cunningham (39.000 uomini). I soldati italiani, inferiori sia per numero che per mezzi, diedero prova di grande valore, ma, rimasti stremati dal freddo e dalla mancanza di munizioni, acqua e legna, si dovettero arrendere ai britannici. Il giorno 14 Amedeo ottenne da Mussolini l'autorizzazione alla resa e designò come negoziatore il generale Volpini, che, però, fu massacrato con la sua scorta dai ribelli etiopi che circondavano le linee italiane.

Poco prima della resa Amedeo autorizzò gli indigeni della sua truppa a tornare nei propri villaggi (e altrettanto autorizzò a fare ai suoi ufficiali), ma, come risulta dai bollettini del 1941 del SIM, gli abbandoni non furono superiori alla quindicina di casi, testimoniando il profondo legame che si era instaurato fra lui stesso, i suoi più giovani ufficiali ed i loro ascari[1]. A mezzogiorno del 17 maggio le condizioni della resa vennero pattuite dai generali Trezzani e Cordero di Montezemolo per parte italiana e dal colonnello Dudley Russel per parte britannica. I militari di Sua Maestà Britannica, non solo in omaggio del comandante nemico appartenente alla migliore nobiltà europea, ma anche in segno di ammirazione per la fermezza da loro mostrata[5], resero gli onori delle armi ai superstiti, facendo conservare agli ufficiali la pistola d'ordinanza.

means:
Amedeo, from the 17th of april to the 17th of may 1941, barricated on the Amba Alagi together with 7000 men: these were carabinieri, aviators, marines from the base of Assab, 500 "sanity soldiers" (no idea, probably some sort of combat medicians?) and about 3000 indigeonus militias.

1/2

2/2

[...] The italian formation was soon put under siege by the troops of gen. Cunningham (39000 men). The italian soldiers, althought inferior both by number and by vehicles, gave show of great valor but were ultimately forced to surrender due to cold, lack of ammunitions, water and firewood. On the 14th (of may) Amedeo recieved Mussolini's permission to surrender and designated as negotiator gen. Volpimi, whom was though massacrated together with his convoy at the ams of ethiopian rebels which encircled italian lines.
Shortly before the surrender Amedeo authorized the indigenous belonging to his troop to return home (and authorized his officials to grant this same permission) but, as for SIM 1941 bullettins, there were no more than 15 abandonments following this order, thus testifying the deep bond that had been formed between himself, his youngest officials, and the askari.
At midday, 17th of may conditions of the surrender were agreed by generals Trezzani and Cordero di Montezemolo (italy); and col. Dudley Russel (england).
H.R.M. miltitary, not only homaging the enemy commander, who belonged to the finest european nobility, but also in admiration of the steadiness demonstrated (by his defence), granted the honor of war to the survivors, allowing officials to retain their service revolver.

What?

should also be noted that he died soon thereafter in prisony due to malaria-induced fever.
so yeah, he did everything he could to hold on against overwhelming forces and manage to draw the allies to a month-long stalemate, although at the price of his life.

>
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Italo-Ethiopian_War

wops, didn't mean to tag you there.

he was a fucker. At least he made Hitler lose
actually, hitler was good, he just made a few stupid decisions such as allying with Shittaly

fuck you fucking nigger, come back to calafrica! Giolitti and those great liberal guys had done some miracles with italian economy. If you think "we diocan kitt'emmuortt, er DVUCE c'ha bordado tante belle cose come le paludi bonificate, le pensioni, le biciclette e l'analfabetismo funzionale" you should remember how sinistra storica created the public school and giolitti gave suffragio maschile also for fucking terroni like you.

>he thinks he's divertente writing like he has frequentato le elementari in somalia.
1-sono del nord
2-mi sto laureando in storia
3-ho uno scaffale intero pieno di libri sul fascismo, di variabile qualità ma utili nondimeno
TEMO di avere vagamente più conoscenza dell'argomento di te, perchè:
1-hai 14 anni
2-non hai neanche provato a refutare i miei punti, ma ti sei prodotto in un Facebook-tier ad hominem.
Tl;dr get off my board you spawn of all faggots.

Senza condiderare che gli "argomenti" che hai portato c'entrano così poco col discorso che è tutta da ridere. Letteralmente cosa dovrebbe fottermene che 50 anni prima della marcia su roma è stata varata la scuola dell"obbligo? In che modo è pertinente? Oh wait, non lo é. Stai solo sparando cagate.

>talking about the Duce
>post an anime girl
>is not Duce Anchovy
hang yourself faggot

>third world
That term didn't exist back then, poor af would be more correct.

>Italy decides they want to have a colonial empire too and attacks Ethiopia
>Italians loose so bad riots break out at home and the government collapses
>Italians spend 40 years going "we got beaten by the blacks"
>Italians try again and still almost loose the war because the Ethiopians have several men with rifles
>Since the Ethiopians dare to fight back, the Italians commit genocide
>"The budget for Italian East Africa from 1936 to 1937 required Italy to provide 19.136 billion lire to create the necessary infrastructure for the colony.[78] At the time, Italy's entire annual revenue was only 18.581 billion lire."
>The Italians then flee barely four years later when Haile Selassie shows up with his new British friends

Mussolini wasn't a shit dictator, he was actually pretty solid. It's just that he had a terrible sense of judgement.

He wasn't that bad, he just unfortunately sided with the GERMany and gets a bad rap for it. He also thought Italians could into war, which is clearly not the case.

>tfw no we don't live in an alt. history where Mussolini sides with Allies to fight off the eternal kraut.

Thread theme:
youtube.com/watch?v=0I71VX5RyGA

wasn't a bad dictator, but stupid for getting into a war Italy could not fight

>tfw no Stresa Front

>/pol/kiddies thinking this retard was good in any way

he was a shithead that got his country into a war he could not win and summarily tried to flee his own country before getting killed by commies

One of the biggest embarrassments to Italy there has ever been

His granddaughter is still preaching the same shit even today, she should be hanged as well desu

Babby's first historical stance.
>m-muh dictators are evil
>m-muh precious REAL democracy we have right now

But Ethiopia kicked Italy's ass.

But he is right, Mussolini wouldn't be that bad if he just ignored Hitler instead of losing retarded war for some irrelevant bullshit.

he said "this retard was good in any way", I know full well the war is the most retarded thing he did, but he wasn't all bad. That's just "babby's first"-tier.