How is """""state capitalism""""" possible?

You start out with a concept, capital.

You come up with an economic system based around capital, and call it capital-ism.

You clarify that capital-ism, is not just a system where capital exists, but one based around markets and privately owned capital.

Someone disagrees with privately owned capital, and thinks it should be socially owned. They call it social-ism.

Another guy says capital should be owned by the state. State-ism is already taken and it means something else. The concept also focuses on capital, but also on the state. So you call it state-capital-ism.

It's just the -ism form of state and capital. It's confusing because capital-ism is the -ism form of capital, but means something other than system based around capital.

Solid explanation mate

Shut up faggots.

Capitalism literally means "private ownership of the means of production".

If the State owns the means of production, it's not private is it?

No, but then State Capitalism isnt Capitalism, which is why it isnt called Capitalism

>but then State Capitalism isnt Capitalism

Yes, state ownership of the means of production is clearly not capitalism.

No one is claiming that it is. Its a form of socialism, which is why it shows up in socialist countries

>no such thing as state capitalism
>China is a capitalist country

Oooooh, pick carefully!

No it doesn't.

It can also be found in non-socialist dictatorships. If you have a despot that says he owns everything, that's still state capitalism.

>No one is claiming that it is

By calling it "state capitalism", Trotskyists are trying to redeem socialism in some way, by way of revisionism.

It's clearly just propaganda in order to further discredit actual capitalism, by claiming that the USSR and China were legitimate expressions of capitalism, which they were not.

Example?

"Capitalism" does not have a monopoly on the concept of capital. State Capitalism is called that because the state acts very much like a traditional capitalist corporation

No, state capitalism was a term coined by people who didn't like state capitalism, so they coined the term to misleadingly include the term capitalism. Americans like to use the phrase state capitalism because it makes it seem like capitalism won and communism lost.

>by claiming that the USSR and China were legitimate expressions of capitalism, which they were not

Well they clearly weren't socialist, and they were no stranger to capital accumulation either.

What do you define as "legitimate" anyway?

China is just regular capitalism abetted by the government. Its economy is handled by private corporations.

>What do you define as "legitimate" anyway?

Private ownership of the means of production, free trade, and a commitment to defending people's private property rights.

I build functioning state capitalist societies in Dwarf Fortress all of the time, it works really well actually.

Hoxha pls go

Nigga you can't just drop a bomb like that and not go into details.

Socialism/communism isn't possible as history has shown us over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Democracy isn't possible as the fall of the Greeks and the Roman Empire has shown us.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia

capitalcucks btfo

...

Pretty much all western countries are to some degree state capitalists since the states both own companies and even interfere with the markets outside of said companies.

It's almost as if the world isn't evenly cut in pieces fit for autisms,

>1936 – 1939)

Great. Awesome.

When will you retard fucks die off already jesus christ.

Leftists are truly the most retarded people on this planet.

>It's almost as if the world isn't evenly cut in pieces fit for autisms
It isn't. But it's easier to control people that way.

It's simply the easiest way to make an expansive economic system in dwarf fortress. You represent the collective decision making process of the nobility, as such the nobility has control over the resources. Resources are exchanged via trade, and redistributed to the populace. It's a highly functioning system, actually. The only thing that tends to fuck it up is invasion of varying degree, so it has the same problems as the real world version.

The state is the business.

How many bunkers have you made?

considering fortresses are basically underground bunkers, somewhere in the triple digits.

Its more like collectivism (i.e. socialism, communism, corporatism, fascism etc.

You call that successful?

>ussr
state capitalists
>prc
state capitalists
>nazis
state capitalists

try again

Bank bailouts, socialism for the rich, etc.

Basically the govt serves as the handmaiden for private business, absorbing the risk and establishing a revolving door relationship between government and the financial sector.

How is """shitposting""" possible?

...

>get beaten by other communist
>get beaten by fascist
>be literally shit tier

Next you're going to bring up the Ukranian Free State or the Paris Commune as successful societies.

In Marxist theory there is a core concept of exploitation in the capitalist system. This is where private ownership (the capitalist) via ownership of the means of production and all commodities produced by said means (the fishing boat + all the fish it catches) compensates the workers that produces all the commodities less than the total wealth they have produced (80 fishes worth of wealth for 100 caught).

In advanced socialism the workers control the means of production instead of private micro-tyrannies (the fishers own their own boats they work with instead of some other guy on land doing nothing). In the Soviet system the government questionably takes the role of the worker in ownership and collective decision maker instead of handling things on the ground through direct democracy or some such.

So in State Capitalism the Soviet state acts just as the capitalist did before even though legally there is no "private ownership" of factories and fishing boats. The worker may still be compensated less than the value he has produced. Only instead this time payroll is handled and funneled up to a state bureaucrat instead or a private one. They spend your wealth "for collective benefit" but seem to have nice summer homes all of a sudden. Union activity is outlawed. Work alienation still happens. Personal economic decisions are coerced by the state acting exactly like capitalists. Everything is mostly the same except titles have changed.

Or better yet. In Victoria 2. Its the best way to industrialize a back ass nation.

Of course once you get full factories its tedious to manage so I just go free market, but if I wanted max efficiency for my army I'd stay State Cap.

I don't know...

When I think state capitalist I think Nazi Germany and modern day China.

Where the state isn't the primary business owner, but it props up its home grown businesses with state capital for nationalistic purposes.

If Soviets were state capitalists they were doing it wrong or they would be like modern China.

>got its shit kicked in embarrassingly easy
>even communists managed to beat them
>absolute shithole for the entirety of its very short existence

leftists are actually this dumb

unified ideologies in a time where its infinitely easier to kill then control

examples sparta

>Capitalism literally means "private ownership of the means of production

>China is just regular capitalism abetted by the government

25% of the economy is state run...
How does that cope with this