How come nothing exciting happened here until 1492?

That's some dank shit posting /pol/. Now just wait for them to take the bait

I wouldn't mind seeing Tenochtitlan in its prime.

...

s-something s-something egypt and korea were the only two possible places for complex civilization to ever thrives somethign something one human race something something social construct

Came into contact with Aryan influence via Ancient Greece

>Hyperborean
doggerland civ

What the fuck are you trying to say

Twice the population of London or Rome. Pretty crazy.

>all those indigenous American empires
>boring

>European imperialism
>now that's where the shit is at

what does that equate to in human sacrifices?

>you'll never visit Tenochtitlan in its prime
>you'll never visit Cahokia in its prime
>you'll never explore the lost Amazon civilizations and their wooden cities
>you'll never explore the Andes in the name of the Inca and fight Mapuche barbarians
>you'll never be a trader traveling the desert between Mesoamerica and the American South-West

>you'll never be a trader traveling the desert between Mesoamerica and the American South-West
tfw you'll never explore New Spain in the name of El Rey

neither of these were the largest cities in Europe by any measure

Mesa Verde is pretty interesting, considering it was inhabited for 700 years then immediately abandoned in the 12th century.

Learning about prediscovery America can be frustrating though, since it seems much of it is based on fairly weak assumptions.

Didn't say they were. I've seen it claimed before, though, but I haven't seen enough proof to justify it.

Nor is it any less interesting that a Mesoamerican city had a population rivaling large European cities.

comfy af

If the whole 'plagues spread to humans via animals and the natives had no plagues because they had no domesticated animals' theory is true...then one has to wonder what Tenochtitlan and Cahokia were like in their prime. They'd be somewhat dirty from all the literal human shit, but imagine pre-modern coties without animal feces and dead bodies everywhere. Cities that grow and expand naturally instead of through immigration alone because not as many people are gettinng sock and dying. Almost no epidemics.

They'd be vastly different than Afroeurasian cities. How would these differences affect society in the big native American cities, Veeky Forums?

*getting sick

Killing my cellph desu lads.............

The few written records were destroyed during the conquest. Which was wrong for us to do, but also dumb of them to not utilize writing systems more prolifically.

No civilization used writing more prolifically until pretty recently. For most of history, even in the height of empires like Rome or China, most people were illiterate.

Would you recommend any entry-level books on the pre-Columbus period?

It's not that they lacked exposure to disease, it's that they lacked exposure to all the diseases in Eurasia

I liked this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New_Revelations_of_the_Americas_Before_Columbus

>Nor is it any less interesting that a Mesoamerican city had a population rivaling large European cities.

but those cities weren't particularly large

This bait make me laugh, here a (you).
also, I hope it's a bait.

>most people were illiterate.
Explain soldiers and shit writing profanities on the walls of Pompeii then

Actually there were plenty of interesting groups in the region, however by 1492 many of the notable ones had collapsed like the Anasazi and Mayans. Even then you still had the Incans and Aztecs
Actually visited there a few years back, would have loved to have seen it when it was inhabited and in its prime.

Professional Roman soldiers weren't typical Romans, and even then may have still been functionally illiterate despite knowing a few words.

In 1500;

Constantinople - 200,000
Paris - 185,000
Venice - 115,000
Naples - 114,000

Tenochtitlan estimated to be 200,000

>you'll never attend the potlach of some rich Coast Salish prince and get showered in gifts and slaves as a demonstration of his wealth and power
>you'll never take a canoe trip ending with smoked salmon and sxusem on a temperate rainforest beach

numbers from books.google.com/books?id=XiGLBQAAQBAJ

Nigger Tenochtitlan had a population of 200-300 000 when Cortez arrived. It could have easily contested largest European cities.

Y'know, before it got shrekt...

IIRC literacy was actually a key aspect of being a roman soldier and was also used as a tool for romanizing conquered barbarians.

Refer to the Mississippian Culture as a testament to how little we know about the Americas before the arrival of Columbus.

My history prof told me they had lots of gardens and beautiful fragrant flowers. Maybe parks and gardens are easier to upkeep without lots of animals around.

>he didn't have the entirety of the horrible histories series memorized by the age of 7

Because we didn't have written history. And the little we got was destroyed by colonists. Most of it were oral history too.

Also, we have literally thousands of indians civilizations, incas, maias and astecas all over the continent too (not same place mind you. Go study)

Stuff did happen though

;_;

>>you'll never be a trader traveling the desert between Mesoamerica and the American South-West
;_;

>Tenochtitlan has the same population of Constantinople
>it was on the same continent as the amazon river
>Amazons were in Greek mythology
>Amazon river wasn't discovered at the that time
The new world was colonized by Greece. Everyone in mexico and south america is Greek. It all makes sense now. But let's take this one step further
>the natives of mexico and south america were persecuted by the spanish
>Hispanics are called Latino
>Latino has "latin" in it
>The Latin Empire also had latin in it
>Colombus was italian
>Venice was italian
>Venice also persecuted Greeks
Colonization was invented by Latins to persecute the Greeks

>all right

>move on

>nothing to see here

That didn't happen. At all.
Spain used corvee labor systems to provide for self-suffecient villa estates of nobles. Natives were forced to give x amount of labor to their patron in return the patron protected their rights and the crown garunteed them a degree of land usage.

It's why the Zapista movement occured. In an isolated region of Mexico, that was still highly indigenous, and used to having its rights guaranteed such as access to woods, water, and land.

>You'll never explore the polynesia whit Topa Inca Yupanqui

enperublog.com/2008/08/15/did-the-incas-explore-the-pacific/

>Tenochtitlan has the same population of Constantinople
>it was on the same continent as the amazon river

Uhh, i'm pretty sure Mexico is in North America, while the Amazon is in South America.

>Most of it were oral history too.

and that's dying off.
BIT.
BY
BIT.

The mayan actually did keep pretty decent records. The language has almost been cracked as well.

you mean the script, maya is a living language with half a million speakers or even more

Yeah yeah, the tablets that were thought impossible to translate are nearly translated I believe. Once they get a working idea of how to translate it when written, we'll learn a lot more about them by reexaming the lost cities and tombs.

Partly this , partly because the dominant culture in the Americas is primarily descended from European culture so schools are only interested in teaching what happened once Europeans showed up.

Dumping from El Mirador, in Guatemala. Pic related is La Danta complex, the biggest pyramid in the world. 2.800.000 cubic meters. 1.000.000 more than the Great P. of Giza.

About 85% of El Mirador is still hidden into the jungle, unexplored.

lmao being this settler colonial

just to make an idea

Consider that half of La Danta was destroyed in the last ~1500 years. El Mirador was built around 300 BC.

Consider that half of La Danta was destroyed in the last ~1500 years. El Mirador was built around 300 BC .

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

View from La Danta

Wtf its just a hill. Europe has those too you faggot.

Now imagine all this instead of jungle

>its just a hill
>in a place where there are literally no relevant elevation changes in like 100 kilometers

No it's not, retard.

Wow they can stack rocks, how impressive, I think my five year old can do that too.

...

So for you, any pyramid in Egypt, the Americas, stonehenge, the Colosseum, the Forbiden City, etc are just "stacked rocks"? Because that's what they are, you idiot.

My primary school actually DID teach native American history.

Iroquois were pretty cool.

Dont reply, he's probably one of those /pol/tards who shit on everything that isn't "aryan"

It did during pre-Columbian times.Teotihuacan and later Tenochtitlan crossed the desert to trade emeralds and feathers at Paquime.

...

They had the same problems that Africans always had where they never really established a permanent civilization. They did have civilizations and cultures and monuments and empires and shit but for them and especially for Africans the problem is that they just never really influenced or mattered outside of their direct cultural sphere. It's like one of those "if a tree falls and no one's there to hear it... " things.

Civilization that is created, rises, reaches beaks, descends and collapses without ever affecting the rest of history might as well not exist at all and that's what all native American and African civilizations were.

>La Danta was destroyed

por que?

>collapses without ever affecting the rest of history
did you even read what you wrote?

Completely wrong, faggot.

If not for barbarians who retook Roman culture, Rome would've been a lone falling tree as well.

The "plight" of American natives was that overall they lad less people than Eurasia and their people were located more sparsely. Less people > less ideas, less trade, less produce, less interaction = less progress overall.

I don't have the sources now but I'm fairly sure that the population of America was steadily rising which means steady progress was made towards more stable and permanent civilizations.

But who knows maybe America was the case where there just wasn't enough people? That the critical mass of people required for information to survive from one civilization to the next one just wasn't there. Meaning every civilization started from square 0 and it would've been only a game of chance and probability of whether there would be a chain of civilizations in close succession that would get population and overall progress past the point of where all of the information gets lost after the civilization perishes (or simply a new one props up as soon as the previous one falls, as it has always been in Eurasia).

That would truly be an interesting subject to delve into. Can you imagine the possibility of homo sapiens, with all our intellect and all, still stuck living as we did 10, 000 years ago, stuck in this cycle of information being gained and lost with every civilization? Who knows, maybe that was an inveitability with sparse populations. Just look at aborigines. So sparse and few that they didn't even spawn one single civilization.

>always had where they never really established a permanent civilization
The Andes had continuous civilization for thousands of years as kingdoms and empires rose and fell.

>without ever affecting the rest of history
So history would be exactly the same without potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cocoa, coca, corn, pumpkin, sunflowers, turkeys, llamas, squashes, etc. etc.?

Or how about history where all the gold and silver that attracted the Spanish and other Europeans was never mined up and processed? Where there were no native government structures they could easily subvert for their colonies? Without native guides and individuals to help them even survive on the new continent (like Squanto) and proceed to explore it?

this is some next level shitposting

>Greeks
>Aryan

Ancient Greeks?

Edgelord arguments about Aryan superiority aside, there's substantial genetic and anthropological evidence showing that the ancient Greeks, Romans, and Phonecians had DNA most closely related to modern Western Europeans... even Tutankhamen.

This is really pretty fucking interesting, and this board ought to treat it as such instead of descending into a flamewar between "master race" fags and white guilt fags.

>Greeks
>Aryan
So when were Greeks Iranics who could use the term Aryan?

>So history would be exactly the same without potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cocoa, coca, corn, pumpkin, sunflowers, turkeys, llamas, squashes, etc. etc.?
Notice how you didn't list a single actual material thing. Did the ancient Americans genetically engineer those or were they just in the vicinity of the native birthplace of those crops?

One does wonder why they didn't just... get together then. It's not like Europeans had it peachy, Greece is shit sun baked dry rock in the Mediterranean with almost nothing going for it and yet they managed to develop a highly sophisticated and influential civilization.

North America has huge river systems for communications, has Great Lakes for more fresh water than you'd ever need and has too much space for crops of all kind. Why didn't hey make something of themselves?

>Did the ancient Americans genetically engineer those
yes

>It's not like Europeans had it peachy
So these guys did?

>the biggest pyramid in the world
Not according to the rest of the world faggot

Not him but that argument doesn't actually work since there are other geologic formations that do fit that description.

You're better off just saying "no it isn't".

Seconded, just show why it is a pyramid and be done with it...or ignore it.

Biggest pyramid is and the tallest one is Khufu, but is still unknown if La Danta was built on top of a natural elevation or not. If it wasn't, its height would reach 172m.

Just because the pestilent spaniards were too stupid to recognize and replicate useful technologies, like the sanitation system of Tenochtitlan, doesn't mean those techs weren't useful. The fact that the only innovations that were brought to Europe were agricultural says as much about Europeans as it does about natives. I mean seriously Europe's cities were poo in loo tier filthy which is why they wiped out the natives with disease. They were literally so disgusting they wiped our entire civilizations just by breathing.

>but is still unknown if La Danta was built on top of a natural elevation or not.
So until it's proven to not be entirely man made nationalistic queens whose people have accomplished nothing of note since then will keep toting it as the greatest achievement ever.

>like the sanitation system of Tenochtitlan
I hate how people use modern phrases to describe ancient tech. I mean, technically, you're right, it IS a sanitation system. Calling it that though makes it sound modern and it was primitive as everything else back then was.

Killing people to feed the sun isn't exciting enough for you?

>pestilent spaniards
I like that

> like the sanitation system of Tenochtitlan
Everything Aztecs had Romans had better.

>The fact that the only innovations that were brought to Europe were agricultural says as much about Europeans as it does about natives
I mean it sucks that Aztecs couldn't survive a common cold but that's their problem not the Spaniards.

> I mean seriously Europe's cities were poo in loo tier filthy which is why they wiped out the natives with disease.
the dung ages thing is a meme and it is a meme based on the High Middle Ages population peak in Europe. But yes European civilization was agricultural. At least Europeans didn't slaughter 30,000 people for fun.