Why do some people deny the holocaust?

uh, no. Nobody says that. Honest question: are you stupid?

Your point make sense, I live in the west but half of my family is from eastern Europe, Serbia to be precise. My father also told me how my great grand-father died in Mathausen while my grand-uncle maneged to survive. Nonetheless I've never being presented to this story in such victimising way.
Hell, in highschool they even told us that the russian civillian and militar casualties were around 20000000 deaths

you have to understand the trauma. The people who went through this witnessed a civilized and relatively tolerant country become nazi germany. So obviously in America they fear for the same thing. Add to this the fact that people still want israel off the map, and you have the reason why jews make a big deal out of this. The poles and gypsies have no real interest in making people aware of their misfortune, quite the contrary actually.

So, basically while victims that had countries viewed it as "a part of the war damages" while the stateless jews gave a different name to it because it wasn't a war?

Jews sure received a lot of hate throughout all history

>I haven't gone a single day without somebody bringing up the holocaust in my entire life

Are you a Jew or working at a holocaust museum?

This. Its part of the jewish identity. They have been persecuted forever and have a massive victim complex. Even in Israel today, they are taught that every goy is literally Hitler.

Theres even a sizable group of jews who believe god sent Hitler down to punish them for going against his word and becoming more secular

This and the fact the germans were relatively harsher to the jews, yes. Difference between genociding a minority in your country or waging a war on your neighbor and being especially cruel.
Also as says the poles would prefer to forget about it, while the jews must not because if they do it's likely something comparable (like israel losing US diplomatic support, getting ostracized because of the arab influence on the UN, ending up losing a war and having all its jews exterminated) may happen to them again. I mean I would risk to be unpleasant if this was a likely outcome for my people, too

Dude they literally have a museum dedicated to honoring non-jews.

>I haven't gone a single day without somebody bringing up the holocaust in my entire life
uh huh

Since this is like a "genocides general" thread, does anyone have something to share about the armenian genocide? I really know nothing about it

>I really know nothing about it

>bunch of Armenians live in Turkey
>turkey doesnt like them
>decides to ethnically cleanse them
>ethnic cleaning isnt necessarily violent, its really just taking people out of your population
>but the turks are violent
>gather all the branier armenian males/community leaders
>kill them all
>make the rest of the women and children and younger men on a forced march out of the country
>the march is exceptionally brutal
>they are denied food and water and anyone too weak to keep marching is just either left to die or killed
>turkish soldiers in charge of the march also brutalize them, raping the girls, stealing some of their shit, beating up people for fun
>theirs also an incident where they apparently had a bunch of weaker,old people on a boat crossing a river, and just sunk it
>also reports of them crucifying them to mock them for being christians
>1 million armenians end up dying

they did the same thing to Greeks and Azerbaijanis as well

heres a turkroach teasing starving children with food

Jews literally told a Holodomor awareness group in Ukraine to not call it a genocide because it would take away from the holocaust.

Face it, jews only care about the holocaust because it makes them an untouchable minority. Every other civilization that got genocided gets the short end of the stick

>a lot of 'civilized' european states commited treason on their own jewish citizens (France, hungary, also, somewhat, italy)
What is military occupation?

Fuck, sounds brutal (as any genocide after all)
Did the armenians actually posed a threat /had indipendence movents against the turks or was unjustified violence?

it still doesnt mean plenty of jews exploit the holocaust to excuse whatever shitty action they do.

Thats also another problem. Instead of calling out these assholes, they just blame the holocaust victims, say that it never happend, be a stormfag which only makes the jews double down harder.

They're technically right though, the Holodomor was not genocide since Russia had no deliberate intentions of wiping out Ukrainians.

>Did the armenians actually posed a threat

tbhfam, I dont really know all the details of it

But I think that it was just the history of Armenia and Turkey not getting along, and Turkey being in the middle of a war (this was in WW1) and Turkeys main enemy was Russia, which had a sizable amount of Armenian troops.

>Russia had no deliberate intentions of wiping out Ukrainians.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Yes user they just "accidentally" *rubs hands* forgot to supply grain to an entire region of people.

>the Holodomor was not genocide since Russia had no deliberate intentions of wiping out Ukrainians.

it doesnt really matter. The soviet government killed 7 million Ukrainians in 1 fucking year by starving them to death.

>thinly veiled Holocaust denial thread

Per the sticky, "Veeky Forums is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates."

>Greeks and Azerbaijanis as well

*Greeks and Assyrians

all three groups are mostly christians compared to the mostly muslim population of the ottomans, but the ottomans were pretty moderate so I dont know how much religion played into it

That question is actually a huge part of why the genocide is so contested today. The Turks, for obvious reasons, basically claim that it was a justified response to rebels and insurgents, and secondarily that not that many actually died. They'll point to things like the Defense of Van as evidence, or to the presence of ethnic Armenians in the Russian Army. None of this really holds up to scrutiny, as most of the rebellion was either in direct self defence against genocidal Turkish and Kurdish millitary units/gendarmes, or simply an expression of fear that had risen out of the Hamidian massacres a few decades prior.

I think you're conflating certain jewish special interest groups with jews as a whole.

>tinfoil hat tier
Absolutely denying that there was a systematic genocide of Jews
>sensible skeptic tier
Acknowledging that there was a genocide, but the numbers were exaggerated (not millions)
>normie tier
6 million or so Jews died in the Holocaust

>what about all the other tens of millions of people that die-
>shut up you dumb goy you weren't the chosen race

This is a complete white washing of Soviet history.

Stalin specifically announces his intent to exterminate all Kulaks a few years before millions of them start dying.

>Now we have the opportunity to carry out a resolute offensive against the kulaks, break their resistance, eliminate them as a class and replace their production with the production of kolkhozes and sovkhozes.

Blaming it on "stupid policies" is a total cop out. The idea of Stalin as some kind of sitcom dad dictator fumbling his way to the deaths of millions ignores the millions of people sent to die in gulags, Siberia, and killed in mass executions.

All kulaks were divided into three categories:
>to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police;
>to be sent to Siberia, North, the Urals or Kazakhstan, after confiscation of their property;
>to be evicted from their houses and used in labour colonies within their own districts.

OGPU secret police chief Efim Georgievich Evdokimov organized and supervised the roundup of peasants and the mass executions.

Stalin wanted to "break" Ukraine the same way he wanted to break the kulaks because he saw them as a threat to his own power."

There was a genocide of Kulaks and there was a genocide of Ukrainians.

This. The only reason it's considered genocide is because Russia is 'evil' according to Anglo-American propaganda. Hypocritical considering the Irish famine, but Britain is 'good' so it's not commonly considered genocide (which it wasn't IMO, because like the Holodomor there was no intention of extermination).

What characterizes it as genocide is the extensive practice of confiscating food from farmers, criminalizing gleaning and other measures that led farmers die from starvation even though they were growing enough food to sustain themselves.

Ukrainians were singled out by many measures who's only possible result could be mass death to little benefit to the Soviet Union besides weakening the Ukraine independence movement.

From 18 November 1932 peasants from Ukraine were required to return extra grain they had previously earned for meeting their targets. State police and party brigades were sent into these regions to root out any food they could find.

Two days later, a law was passed forcing peasants who could not meet their grain quotas to surrender any livestock they had.

Eight days later, collective farms that failed to meet their quotas were placed on "blacklists" in which they were forced to surrender 15 times their quota. These farms were picked apart for any possible food by party activists. Blacklisted communes had no right to trade or to receive deliveries of any kind, and became death zones.

On 5 December 1932, Stalin's security chief presented the justification for terrorizing Ukrainian party officials to collect the grain. It was considered treason if anyone refused to do their part in grain requisitions for the state.

In November 1932 Ukraine was required to provide 1/3 of the grain collection of the entire Soviet Union. As Lazar Kaganovich put it, the Soviet state would fight "ferociously" to fulfill the plan.

In January 1933 Ukraine's borders were sealed in order to prevent Ukrainian peasants from fleeing to other republics. By the end of February 1933 approximately 190,000 Ukrainian peasants had been caught trying to flee Ukraine and were forced to return to their villages to starve.

The collection of grain continued even after the annual requisition target for 1932 was met in late January 1933

youtube.com/watch?v=hsOz_J6tJVU
Entirely different topic, but quite simmiliar way of through.

>Acknowledging that there was a genocide, but the numbers were exaggerated (not millions)

That's IHR-tier if anything. No sensible historian puts the number of holocausted jews below 4 M.

The USSR continued to export grain throughout this whole period regardless of the millions dying. They didn't somehow not know taking food from people already at risk of starving and then exporting it would kill people. That makes it deliberate. That makes it genocide. Whether you say its a genocide to uphold communist ideals, a genocide to weaken the Ukrainian independence movement, or a genocide to help reduce the risk of a peasant/kulak revolt depends on your interpretation of history. Regardless of your interpretation there were hundreds of points during the Holodomor where decisions were made that they knew would lead to yet more Ukrainians starving to death and they did it anyway.

The best possible interpretation you can have is that it was a deliberate genocide that Stalin thought would be for the good of the USSR even if it killed millions of people in the process.

It would be like if I locked you in a room, 'exported' all your food, and let you starve to death and its not murder because my intention was to export food, not starve you to death.

>see Holocaust related thread
>let me guess, thread full of people sperging out about /pol/

Yup.

Early massacres under Abdulhamid II, prior to the genocide proper, were partially due to his use of Pan-Islamic ideology, which jeopardised the secular constitution. He was also a paranoid asshole, so that also factored into it.

The genocide proper was more influenced by the personal orders of the young turks, who ordered the massacres out of desire for consolidated power or personal racism.

Why does it feel like every day i get closer and closer to thinking that the Nazis weren't "the bad guys"

>1840s ireland, people starve britain exports food
>it wasn't genocide britannia did nothing wrong!
>1930s ukraine, people starve russia exports food
>this was genocide those evil commie russians!
It's like feminism, double standards everwhere.

>It would be like if I locked you in a room, 'exported' all your food, and let you starve to death and its not murder because my intention was to export food, not starve you to death.

quads of truth

anyone denying the ukrainian genocide is literally the leftist version of a stormfag who denies the holocaust

but never said anything about that NOT being genocide.

I was continuing my post because I ran out of space

The posts

Are a 3 part series, I should have used a name

why were there so many lies about the holocaust ie. human soap and lampshades??

No holocaust is universally accepted as genocide whereas question of holodomor is disputed.

not sure what map you are using but it's wrong

>not with poles
you must be joking mate

precisely

Random wikimap, neverthless majority is still grey.

Or you could use your brain and realize that it was a genocide. The holocaust would still be the holocaust if everyone denied what Nazi Germany did.

>Or you could use your brain and realize that it was a genocide

Or you could use yours and realize I never said it wasn't. I just said you can't compare when people deny holocaust to questioning if Holodomor was a intentional genocide against Ukrainian nation, because holocaust-denial is a fringe movement tolerated perhaps only in Iran and Palestine, while a lot of states and respectable people don't accept holodomor as genocide.

I knew a grad student who is actually doing his dissertation on this. It's still contested by English speaking scholars whether or not the Irish Famine was a deliberate genocide, but it is becoming more of an accepted idea.

I don't believe anybody has ever independently arrived at a position of holocaust denial

then by this yardstick, what happened in bengal repeatedly since the british came to power in india was also genocide.
>No, you gotta grow the opium/indigo
>All the time
>farmers start dying

Those people in particular died from an Allied bombing attack

Hey Carl!

Do you think it was a genocide user?

I agree with the earlier estimates of 4.5 million Jews dying.

>Why do some people deny the holocaust?
Because iOS autocomplete doesn't recognize the word either