Who was the greater military theorist

shooting people without guns doesn't count as conquering.

European Empires have been the worst at holding onto their land in all of history. Anyone who could fight back immediately rebelled and broke free, and all Europeans could do was burn everything on the way out.

Conquering is bringing peace and prosperity to not only the motherland, but those you conquered as well. Europe did none of those things. Europeans were nothing more than intricate raiders.

Dear god, have any of you actually even read the Sun-zi?

And you do know that the Sun-zi was only one of many different treatises on warfare right? It's only famous in the western world because it was the first one translated.

It's like how Cantonese doesn't even come in the top ten of different Chinese languages in terms of number of speakers but it's the one famous in the west because Canton was the region to first come in contact with the west, so people in the west act like Chinese is only either Mandarin or Cantonese.

>Conquering is bringing peace and prosperity to not only the motherland, but those you conquered as well. Europe did none of those things

USA, Canada, Australia are more prosperous and their people have higher living standard than people from the polluted hole named China

>Lands built on pillage and loot from other lands are better off the than the pillaged lands

Well no shit dumbass

but the chinese aren't better off at all.

>Implying the Chinese pillage

Unlike Europe, China actually has money and resources.

Lot of good that is doing for their collective quality of life

No, but in the long run and especially without the 'postmoral' philosophy of the West, China's doing better and will do better and was doing better for a long time

Machiavelli tbach

Communism's a helluva drug

Better than the average American

>In the service of the Russian Empire, Clausewitz helped negotiate the Convention of Tauroggen (1812), which prepared the way for the coalition of Prussia, Russia, and the United Kingdom that ultimately defeated Napoleon and his allies.

>In 1815 the Russian-German Legion became integrated into the Prussian Army and Clausewitz re-entered Prussian service as a colonel. He was soon appointed chief-of-staff of Johann von Thielmann's III Corps. In that capacity he served at the Battle of Ligny and the Battle of Wavre during the Waterloo Campaign in 1815. An army led personally by Napoleon defeated the Prussians at Ligny (south of Mont-Saint-Jean and the village of Waterloo) on 16 June 1815, but Napoleon's failure to destroy the Prussian forces led to his defeat a few days later at the Battle of Waterloo (18 June 1815), when the Prussian forces unexpectedly arrived on his right flank late in the afternoon to support the Anglo-Dutch-Belgian forces pressing his front. Clausewitz's unit fought at Wavre (18–19 June 1815), preventing large reinforcements from reaching Napoleon at Waterloo.

>No, but in the long run and especially without the 'postmoral' philosophy of the West, China's doing better and will do better and was doing better for a long time
>chinks get 1 and a half generation of high growth
>literally think that the world is theirs for the taking
kek.

OK, so ALWAYS wanted to ask this, Prussia is called that because it is in between poland and russia right? or is there a etymological origin for the word?

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Prussia#Etymology
>From the New Latin Prussia, a Latinization used by Peter of Dusburg of a Baltic (Old Prussian, or perhaps Lithuanian or Latvian) autonym. The Middle English designation for the region, Pruce, derives from the same Latinization and is the source of the terms pruce and spruce.

>Your average Veeky Forums poster

China existed long before the West existed, and will exist long after the West is gone.

I want Chinaboos to leave.

Wang Chung please

>Eurotrash thinks the average eurotard has qol that meets American standards, let alone the chinese
Lol

You must be from the USA, can you tell me how many years the US existed without jews controlling you? Was it 10 or 50 years?

Your motto is Israel first, USA second.
You will never ever be anything like China.

Go on, try to stop your yearly tribute payments to Israel and abolish the ADL and AIPAC as well if you can.

Yes, we'll never be a corrupt polluted shithole with a miserable human rights record.

>Murrica
>Yes, we'll never be a corrupt polluted shithole with a miserable human rights record.

Read that to yourself and try not to laugh

>they think only one country is allowed to be shit

HILLARY CLINTON!

Feels good being Norwegian :))

>false equivalences

>Whites will be a minority in 2060
>"You know who" started this with the ACT of 1965
>USA is fine and will outlive China

This is some "American logic" right here.

>Clausewitz
>narrow and limited

Sun-Tzu, precisely because it isn't too precise. The fact that it's effectively a set of thumb rules means it's very flexible and very easy to implement

Sun Tzu
>win some wars or something
Clausewitz
>invent flying reindeer
>conquered all of the north pole
>became king of the elves
>can produce toys for all the good kids in the world
>able to fly around the world in a single night
>became immortal

>shooting people without guns doesn't count as conquering.

Fucking idiot, you think conquest means one group brought another down to it's knees on equal standings? Also, no, conquest is simply conquering another people and their resources, some bring conquests through fire, others through commerce, etc..

I'm underrating this right now

>The fact that it's effectively a set of thumb rules means it's very flexible and very easy to implement

You know he gives you exact numbers for chariots/infantry and everything to lay effective sieges?

Should read his works, it's extremely precise written in a time which seems imprecise. It only seems such as the language is romantic and is meant to applied to several fields, not just the literal one - which is a common theme in almost all ancient writings.

For instance, terms Heaven and Earth seem vague, but he precisely terms them to have exact meaning and how to attain them. It's vague because achieving heaven and earth varies between commanders. He cannot tell you exactly how to achieve control over heaven and earth but he can tell you exactly how to identify it and work towards attaining it.

You just kept the name, literally all else changed.

>Machiavelli tbach
'Muh Virtuous Militia' at book length.

This is some next level shitposting

Clausewitz tops the reading list of West Point.

There is absolutely nothing narrow about Clausewitz. Clausewitz actually took a look at the nature of war itself, being a ultimately a device of politics. What may seem narrow might be his acute language and methodology, which resembles that of western philosophers and thinkers of the 18th - 19th century, which Clausewitz actually is. He's a philosopher that happened to wear a uniform from time to time.

>The Chinese didn't industrialize because of Sun Tzu

>What is sinicization?

what is sinicization.

I rather die, than live in the shit hole China

>Foxconn announced that a male employee was found dead outside one of its production line buildings in Zhengzhou on Thursday (18 August 2016), while a female employee died in a train accident on her way to work the following day.

The company did not give further details over the circumstances of the deaths except that they occurred on different dates and in unrelated conditions.

>However, The Wall Street Journal produced a report on the fatalities claiming the man, a 31-year-old, "leapt to his death" from the building's top floor after finishing his night shift assembling iPhones.

The report goes on to claim the female who died the next day was struck by a train after heavy rain had flooded underpasses, forcing the worker to cross rail lines in a desperate effort to make it to work on time for fear of being docked wages if employees cannot turn up, even if bad weather plays a part.

ibtimes.co.uk/iphone-manufacturer-foxconn-china-confirms-two-unrelated-employee-deaths-over-two-day-period-1577410

>Sun Tzu is worse because people died in China recently
This is literally what you're implying.

I assume he's talking to the obnoxious sinoboo in the thread rather than the OP.

Oh, sorry. I mean, I'm a sinoboo too, but you would have to pay me to visit the mainland.

Nigger I could pull up 1000 horrifying news stories from burgerland right now

Fuck off

Those people you listed are shit. Napoleon is the greatest.

>retard who believes China is equal to the US in living quality.
Kill yourself

>Europe has no resources or money
>China has money
>China has resources

China has human resources. That's it. Aside from that, it's a dirt-poor country that couldn't possibly have a working economy without the leading country in its enemy bloc.

Clausewitz was more profound

they have the world's biggest supply of rare earth metals.

Their human resources are actually fairly weak.

Sun Tzu was a strategist. Clausewitz was a tactician. We have a case study in fiction of what occurs from this with Robb Stark and Tywin Lannister. The same goes for these two.

>Sun Tzu wins early victories
>Clausewitz enters war, goes HAAM, wins every battle
>Sun Tzu wins out via sneaky-deaky shit
>Consequences bite him in the ass b/c you don't fuck with Europa
>China conquered by Europe
>Clausewitz dead, Sun Tzu dead, Europa reigns supreme.

Iran was colonized by Greece, what about the Seleucids

what the fuck are you talking about

How the fuck are you people so deluded that you think China is a prosperous country

Their quality of life is trash. Sanitation, freedom of expression, resources, medication, and breathable air went down the dumps in China a long ass time ago.

>Implying change doesn't exist
>Implying "China" has existed for very long
>Implying people in China all identify as "Chinese"
>This much ignorance about the defendant country
>Hasn't killed self yet

Die in a hole, you cuck

Clausewitz is narrow because he sees war through the context of politics which is correct but as I stated he fails to realize that conflicts between states have multiple dimensions. He sees geopolitical struggles through a European lens which means that the most common solution is through force as Strabo points out this particular European quirk. Sun Tzu is far more broad in his approach because of the ideal of subduing the enemy without fighting which is completely alien to the European mind. Sun Tzu advocated the use of spies and clever diplomacy to defeat ones enemies, using war only as a last resort.

Go outside your suburbs cuck. The US outside the metro areas is a desolate wasteland.

>Sun Tzu is far more broad in his approach because of the ideal of subduing the enemy without fighting which is completely alien to the European mind.
You've never encountered the Eternal Anglo, I see.

they have the world's largest supply of rare earf minerals because they don't give a shit about the environment.
rare earth mineral deposist exist everywhere, they just fuck up the land when you try to extract them.

>Chinese civilization has existed continuously for thousands of years
>No such thing as China

You're such as salty cuck it's like you ate Tyrone's cum out of Mary Sue's snatch.

>this is what chinks actually believe

>The US outside the metro areas is a desolate wasteland.

I think you've played too much those Fallout games, Xie

>Anglo
>European

A bunch of xenophobic inbred island niggers have little to nothing in common with the rest of the continent

Sure, let's go with Venice then.

>High rates of poverty
>High rates of suicide
>Rampant drug abuse
>Almost everyone is on government welfare

I bet you're one of those faggots who thinks that the moon landing was fake and 9/11 was an inside job.

>all those salty sinoboo replies in this thread.

>>High rates of poverty
>>High rates of suicide
>>Rampant drug abuse
>>Almost everyone is on government welfare
The entirety of the US is not the Appalachians, Bao.

You're the only one who's saying that cuck.

wew, chinaman mad?
ping pong ching chong mista jones.

How's that nigger cum tasting cuck?

oooh, so savage~
whats next, you gonna make cat noises at me?

I would you probably wouldn't hear it over Mary Sue mocking your micro dick

No, every military officer college in the world studies Vom Kriege

Ignore him. Another lost white supremacist soul on this site. Europes been conquered several times.

A.T.Mahan ofc

>he fails to realize that conflicts between states have multiple dimensions.
I completely disagree there. A whole chapter is dedicated to the warfare within the framework of politics and diplomacy between states and the consequences that has to the man who needs to wage war under such circumstances. By no means Clausewitz was unaware of the fragile matrix of diplomacy warfare is embedded in. However, Clausewitz's work is written for the military man, not the politician and Clausewitz looks at it from the perspective of a military man. It does not matter to him how to affect the political framework, because that's not his job as a soldier. After all, the people who prepare for war, who lead the armies and fight on the battlefields are not the same people who make the political decisions. The soldier has to deal with the status quo and make the best out of it, because that is the reality of warfare throughout history. If your leaders made bad alliances if you find yourself up against superior force doesn't matter, the soldier needs to fight all the same. I wouldn't necessarily call the work or Clausewitz's view on the matter narrow, but rather 'focussed' and 'practical'. And it is no surprise that Clausewitz remains highly relevant at military academies up to this day.

>A whole chapter
>Just to say it's not my job

Great writing

Did you even read my post? Clausewitz rightfully focusses on how to deal with the circumstances imposed by the political context in form of strategic boundary conditions as a military man and the tool of the military man is not politics but infantry, cavalry and artillery. Clausewitz' work is named "On War", not "On Diplomacy". War is one tool of politics, diplomacy is another. And if you happen to be in the position where you have to wage war since diplomacy has failed you: Clausewitz is the friend you should consult since he tells you about the nature of war with western rigour and precise analysis.

>Your post
Long winded with a conclusion that ultimately says not to concern yourself, because the nature of war excludes political considerations. I see where you got your writing inspiration.

The point is that a general is not in charge of diplomacy. What good would a guidebook in diplomacy be for him when that's not what he does or what he can affect? That doesn't mean that the political framework is irrelevant to him, but it is of different relevance to him than to a politician since it mostly manifests itself in strategic boundary conditions - but that's it. His job is to wage war and Clausewitz tells him how and what to consider.