Who was the most competent general of WW2 ?

>Rommel
>not a meme
Choose one and only one

Zhukov, even if he's overrated. Compared to the Wehrmacht or the US Army, he had a morally broken army of conscripts and still managed to turn it into a hardened war machine

That's the thing with Zhukov. You have to admire his unbelievably cold tactical and strategic sense.
He raped the prime Whermacht Battallion Großdeutschland during Barbarossa and it was no accident that uncle Stalin chose him to head the Moscow counter offensive.

I still think Konstantin Rokossovsky was the better planner and a more empathical character.
The shit he came up with was magical.

good post

Rokossovsky is the patrician WWII general

>That's the thing with Zhukov. You have to admire his unbelievably cold tactical and strategic sense.
He treated his soldiers the way i treat my units in an RTS. Their lives had no inherent value to him. That's not necessarily a knock, I'm just amazed he detached himself from caring about even wastefully unnecessary losses.

George Patton is the most competent general. Anyone who disagrees is a butthurt frenchie, britbong, slavaboo or kraut lover.

Erwin Rommel aka Desert fox

>Patton was better than Konev, Vassilievski, Rokossovsky, Vatoutine, Joukov ...
Well memed

Patton is a meme

>Joukov

Stop spelling it like a monkey

you mean if you agree with Patton being the best general of the war you are an amerifat

What's with the fan club over Zhukov?

Got any examples of why he's the best?

Brilliant strategist that won the battles of Moscow, Berlin etc. Russia would have fallen without him.

Because he was a genuinely brilliant armor commander who turned around the war and beat Germany
>inb4 muh human waves
That's not how the Soviets fought (they were actually one of the early proponents of armored warfare in the 1930s), and numbers alone doesn't win you battles. China almost always outnumbered the Japanese, but that didn't help them one solitary bit.

>won the battle of berlin
not really impressive
>Russia would have fallen without him.
Any competent general could have won the war. The USSR simply outmanned and outgunned the Germans so much. The only reason why we think WW2 was somehow a close call is that Germans saw initial success against an unprepared enemy

Best generals/field marshals: Kesselring, Mannstein, Zhukov

Zhukov is a fine general, but by 1943 a monkey could have beat the Germans.

1. Massive industrial output
2. Massive numerical superiority
3. Massive Lend-Lease infrastructure assistance in jeeps, trucks and trains
4. ?????
5. PROFIT!!!1!

Model
Mannstein
Guderian
Kleist
Kluge
Rommel
Witzleben
Nähring
Weichs
Bock
Brauchitsch
Reichenau
Kesselring
Hoth
Thoma

just trying to be objective, totally not a wehraboo
tbqh, Soviets had a bunch of competent people like Tuchachevski, Zhukov or Rokossovksi, problem was their generals were kept in retard-leashes by Stalin, perhaps even more than German generals were hindered by Hitler.
OKH was slightly more functional than STAVKA, blame Stalins purges and fear of getting shot if you question anything.

That's how it's spelled in French

Khalkin Gol

Minefields were placed to slow down enemy troops in killzones where artillery and machine guns would cause massive casualties. It would have lowered casualties if they walked through minefields than to wait for engineers which would cause them to lose momentum too.

Zhukov is best by far. I love reading through and seeing meme commanders

My grandfather served under Zhukov, AMA

What did he do during the war ? Where did he fight ?

One important thing about Zhukov: he was so good, he could talk back to Stalin about war plans and not only live to tell about it, but actually get his way.

Any specific battles?
Are there any modern impressions of the Red Army that you find to be false?

>It would have lowered casualties if they walked through minefields than to wait for engineers which would cause them to lose momentum too.

Yes, commanders should idly risk the well being of their officers, their transports, and their elite units.

That's false. Zhukov never wasted lives of troops needlessly.
He was just a realist who understood that war is bloody and was ready to do what had to be done.
But anyway, I agree with >Kesselring
Underrated GOAT.
>USSR simply outmanned
Axis had more manpower, when you take into account areas lost to USSR (Ukraine, Belarus, chunks of Russia).
>outgunned
They simply produced more shit, Axis had more industrial capacity.
Numbers alone don't win war.

>tbqh, Soviets had a bunch of competent people like Tuchachevski, Zhukov or Rokossovksi, problem was their generals were kept in retard-leashes by Stalin, perhaps even more than German generals were hindered by Hitler.

Do you people just study a single year of WWII and then use that as a blanket for the rest of the years? Stalin gave his generals an extraordinary amount of freedom after the debacles of 1941-42.

That's where Stalin proved he was smarter than Hitler tbqh. Stalin learned to go hands-off with his military; Hitler started meddling more and more and the Wehrmacht never had its old successes again.

He signed up for army at 16 years old when the Nazis invaded Russia in June of 1942.

He really did not like talking about the war. He saw stuff that really shook him like many. He said he could never believe in any God after what he saw happened to people, especially with children.

He was one of the first to storm the Reichstag in the Battle of Berlin, and fought in Poland, with liberation of Warsaw.

He was highly decorated with medals from the war.

He loved Zhukov like many Russians and found him to be a hero.

He ended up in GULAG some years after war for some false accusations, and after he was released, he had neighbor, who was also former GULAG prisoner, who served as Zhukov's personal assistant.

If you had to ask Russians who their hero is, many would respond Yuri Gagarin and Zhukov

He wasn't a general.

what, no love for the Georgian alcoholists?

Omar Bradley. Bradley just didn't fuck up at all and he had Patton to execute his plans. That's one hell of a one-two punch.

>tfw Patton's sister is my great-great grandmother

Not necessarily saying he was the best general in total, just wanted to brag on that. I'm descended from Mary Anne.

Sorta related, but people love to talk mad shit about human wave about how easy it is, when actually its fairly difficult to pull off. In order to human wave you have to mass shitloads of equipment and soldiers, which might require pulling troops from elsewhere which might leave a hole in the front due to less manpower there in addition to the logistics of moving hundreds of thousands of troops for lots of miles. Massing troops is also fairly obvious and can let the defender know that an attack is about to happen and prepare for it so deceiving your enemy is also key.

...

>joukov
>j as ʤ
>slavic name
>j=>ʤ

PPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>need 1 million men to defeat 30k strong DAK
>hey guise lets jump on Arnheim and end the war, don't mind the local SS Panzerdivisions on their morning exercise XDDDDD

from the German perspective Monty was quite awesome

>Axis had more manpower, when you take into account areas lost to USSR (Ukraine, Belarus, chunks of Russia).
>when you take into account areas lost to USSR (Ukraine, Belarus, chunks of Russia).
Potential, unusable manpower isn't a thing. Either you have able and trained men ready to fight or not.
>They simply produced more shit, Axis had more industrial capacity.
"they simply produced more shit" lol what an understatement. You reduce the biggest advantage any post-WW1 country would have to "simply".

>Numbers alone don't win war.
Except that, yes, yes they do. Post-WW1 conventional warfare was extremely determinist. If you had more resources you usually won. When the enemy has 3 or 4 times more airplanes than you, having some skilled tactical genius doesn't do shit.

The USSR won because they had more resources, not because of Zhukov. Not to take any credit away from him, he is a brilliant general but your original statement that the USSR won solely because of Zhukov is flat out wrong.

>Ctrl+F Slim
>One result

Zhukov was pretty cool too though.

>slim
>isn't slim at all

ach ja, that tommy humour

Ww2 proved that competancy in generals was a meme. Hundreds of miles are gained and lost on yolo ays for things generals didnt know about, like tank pins and fuel supply.

Have you ever seen a guy called Tiny who was actually Tiny.

If ya go back even further it was Stresseman.

Eh, the big successes they had were primarily due to Hitler taking a gamble and it paying off.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Model

>By the close of September, the Soviet offensive was temporarily spent, but Zhukov, unhappy with the results of the summer and still aware of opportunities around the Rzhev salient, would try again with even more force in November.[20] Code named Operation Mars, Soviet forces struck simultaneously at the Ninth Army from four directions. Model's defensive abilities were once again put to the test,and his forces were once again were able to contain and then cut off and destroy Soviet spearheads.[21] Model emerged from a years fighting around Rzhev with an enhanced reputation as a "Lion of defense" (Löwe der Abwehr).[22] Model's ability to siphon troops from dormant sectors and reinsert them at the key points was the secret of his defensive success,[21] Liddell Hart wrote that he had "the amazing capability to collect a reserve from an almost empty battlefield".[21]

How do Red men even compete?

>How do Red men even compete?

By winning.

>On 17 September, his lunch was interrupted when the British 1st Airborne Division dropped into the town launching Operation Market Garden, the Allied attempt to capture the bridges on the lower Rhine, Maas and Waal. Model initially thought they were trying to capture him and his staff, but the soon-apparent scale of the assault quickly convinced him otherwise.[68] When he perceived what the Allies' real objective was, he ordered the II SS Panzer Corps into action. The corps, containing the 9th SS Panzer and 10th SS Panzer Divisions refitting after Normandy, had been overlooked by Allied intelligence. Whilst still seriously understrength, it was composed of veterans and was a deadly threat to lightly equipped paratroopers. 9th SS Panzer took on the British at Arnhem, while the 10th moved south to defend the bridge at Nijmegen.[citation needed]

Model believed that the situation represented not just a threat, but also an opportunity to counter-attack and possibly clear the Allies out of the Southern Netherlands. Towards this end, he forbade SS General Willi Bittrich and SS Lieutenant General Heinz Harmel, commanding II SS Panzer Corps and 10th SS Panzer respectively, from destroying the Nijmegen bridge. With the exception of this tactical error, Model is considered to have fought an outstanding battle and handed the Allies a sharp defeat. The bridge at Arnhem was held and the 1st Airborne Division destroyed, dashing the Allies' hopes for a foothold over the Rhine before the end of the year.[69]

>Arnhem restored much of Model's self-confidence, which had been shaken by the experience of Normandy.[70] From September to December, he fought another Allied thrust to a standstill, this time by Omar Bradley's U.S. 12th Army Group into the Hürtgen Forest and Aachen. While he interfered less in the day-to-day movements of his units than at Arnhem, he still kept himself fully informed on the situation, slowing the Allies' progress, inflicting heavy casualties and taking full advantage of the fortifications of the Westwall, known to the Allies as the Siegfried Line.[citation needed]

>The Hürtgen Forest cost the U.S. First Army at least 33,000 killed and incapacitated, including both combat and non-combat losses: German casualties were between 12,000 and 16,000. Aachen eventually fell on 22 October, again at high cost to the U.S. Ninth Army. The Ninth Army's push to the Roer River fared no better, and did not manage to cross the river or wrest control of its dams from the Germans. Hürtgen was so costly that it has been called an Allied "defeat of the first magnitude", the credit for which has been personally assigned to Model's leadership.[71][72][73]

So you're agreeing with him?

>2016
>Not liking Ike

>Stalin gave his generals an extraordinary amount of freedom after the debacles of 1941-42.

This.

Stalin dictated the strategic direction and more or less stayed out of the way as to how it was getting done.

Pick up a book dude

>Hitler
>General

him or Tito

Grant was kinda similar in the American Civil War. He was generally a pretty empathetic and decent guy, but he also had a firm understanding that war inherently meant people were going to die in massive numbers, and never let concern for his mens lives cloud his judgement during the heat of battle. After battles though he was known to occasionally have pretty severe emotional breakdowns, but he was always ready to go again by the next morning as if nothing had happened.

War does fucking weird things to people, man

No love for Montgomery here?

so your granddad was basically the kid from 'Come and See'?

that's hardcore dude

>solely responsible for the fuck up that was Market Garden
>solely responsible for the war lasting another year
Why should we love Monty exactly?

wasn't Montgomery also rumored to be a pederast?

I like Ike :^)

>manages to win against Rommel after having 20 times more troops
>Market Garden fuckupp, blames subordinates instead of acknowledging his own errors

his only merits seem to be that he can win by having superior numbers and that he happened to be on the winning side

I don't really think so...what makes you say that?

He served under Red Army for whole war

Grant didn't have breakdowns. He had benders. Sherman had breakdowns. I also think pretty much everything you said probably applies better to Sherman.

Because when your country is dumb enough to make the idiot behind Gallipoli Prime Minister its a wonder the stupidest general you have to deal with is Monty.

This^

>can't flatten the patton
I beg to differ.

>literally did nothing without overwhelming numerical superiority
>Overrun them with numbers is the best Commander of WW2

Fuck right off. The correct answer is Kesselring or Guderian.

>Come and See

Never forget Major Stein. The greatest cinematic Nazi ever (fuck off Tarantinofags, Hans Landa is an overrated backstabbing piece of shit).

>Hans "Memes" Guderian
>Butthurt failure on the Eastern Front
>Can't even kill one ugly Bohemian autist

...

Also, he wasn't run over by the half-ton, he smashed his head into the rear seat and broke his neck.

...

What a faggot way to go. Patton is overrated but he deserved better than that.

goddamn it Veeky Forums

>You will never be on the command staff of SHAEF and go fishing with Eisenhower when not planning the liberation of Europe like your great grandfather did.

Feels bad man.

topkek

Like I posted in Bradley was also an idiot.
I won't discredit Model, he was a brilliant man that knew how to defend very well but Bradley helped him greatly.
The ninth army never even fucking knew how shitty of terrain the Hürtgen forest was until they were there. I visited the forest two years ago and you still see the battle scars in the depths of the forest.

One old guy I met during my hiking trips told me this:
>"During the battle, I was with my group of Hitlerjugend volunteers and some veterans of WWI in a trench.
>We manned two at guns and had fought american advances for the last few days.
>After that we ran out of ammunition and simply waved advancing american troops away. To my astonishment, this tactic worked for another two days, because most american soldiers that stumbled into our position had no idea were they where and seemed lost.
>We eventually retreated but I still remember the confused looks and disheartened gazes of those poor americans."

Dunno if this hokey story is true but the whole Hürtgen forest debacle would make an excellent film. Shame that Hemingway died before he could finish his book on ww2.

Grant had at least one well known breakdown after fighting Lee at The Wilderness.

Landa is the perfect western front nazi (charming, sophisticated, smug, at heart a coward)

Stein is the perfect eastern front nazi (savage, dead-eyed, arrogant, all 'civilized' pretense dropped apart from the flowery language he uses to describe his racial superiority, good fighter)

Gallipoli made sense as a purely naval attack done with surprise. The admirals twisted it into a land battle.

t. Churchill apologist

...

>De Gaulle gets to stand with those other 3
top fucking kek. So pathetic.

Might as well put Gamelin on there as well

>at heart a coward

wtf are you on about?

That's not de Gaulle. It's another free French general

thats even better.

Was allowing a Free French General to get his pic taken with those 3 the most insulting thing the allies could do to France?

I'm not following you here. France needed a representation no matter what the achievements of its generals were.