"dutch" is the english equivalent of "deutsch"

Nah. Culturally speaking everything above the Rhine is definitely similar to Germany, but over the centuries we have developped a very own national character which definitely sets us apart from germans. If dutch people compare themselves to germans, we basically always seem to agree that we are less hierarchical thinking, less in touch with 'ordnung' and more relaxed about living in general. This becomes especially visible in an office environment, whereas germans put a great emphasis on hierachy and formal titles, dutch people are notorious for being direct and basically demanding that their boss should be treated as their equal. Authoritarian leadership does.not.work.at.all with dutch people. An interesting case for this is the recent boom of chinese takeovers of dutch companies. The cultural clashes between chinese and dutch people are so extreme that you get basically nothing more than huge complaints about each other from both sides ( this is a great example nytimes.com/2016/01/04/sports/soccer/dutch-soccer-team-ado-den-haag-chinese-owner-wang-hui.html?_r=0)

We have plastic shoes nowadays, wooden shoes have fallen out of favour.
Stay away from Holland go to the north, to Groningen or Giethoorn.

>Giethoorn
That is basically chinese bait, he should avoid it at all costs unless he likes to walk around armies of chinese bus tourists.

Don't listen to this faggot with his near-satanic trips. :^)

'Holland' has the most to offer. If you want to see green, flat pieces of boring land, go to Groningen.

Also

I am dutch and raised in northeastern part of Netherlands, i have literally no problem with it.

Just look at all these names other countries give us:

English speaking countries: Netherlands
France: pays bas (the lower countries)
Everyone else: Holland or some derivation of it.

And then people call us the dutch for no reason

I live in Groningen, there is nothing here. In the province its Just endless fields of corn and sugar beets (where sugar comes from)

If you want to do some cool countryside sightseeing go to the middle or south. Also the Southwest is very nice with all the deltaworks and shit

Yeah and in fact that's why the pennsylvania dutch are called that way too

>tfw this flag will never be used again because of NSB and modern alt-right twats

>Be Gelre
>Lower Saxon culture in the Low Countries
>Cozy location with access to Waal and Rhine
>Holland and Brabant want your clay but you've been showing them who's boss for centuries
>HRE doesn't like your independence
>Ransom your Duke from the French for 80k florins
>Duke builds a strong administrative system, gold flows into the cities
>Burgundy loses it and tries to conquer you but fails, Northern Netherlands is now Gelre
>Habsburgs want your clay even more, send troops
>Maarten van Rossum sacks the Hague, Emperor assblasted but sues for peace, secures Duke's reign
>Duke dies, Mary of Hungary conquers your clay as Hollanders hang all who resist them

We could've been German by now ;_;

Alsho:

>Volkspartij
>voor Vrijheid
>en Democratie

>Dutch from other regions

You mean Krauts that speak some Saxon dialect and Flemings?

And then Floris happened

>Partij
>Voor de
>Vrijheid

Are modern day Dutch and Flemish people the descendents of the Franks? I've read that the wealthy elite of the Franks that moved to France and ruled the Gauls quickly learned the language of the Gauls and adopted their culture

Probably a mix. Them Frank bitches have great poontang

The Frankish language looks weird as fuck but I can still see how Dutch and Flemish came out of it.

>Another early sentence from the early 6th century AD is found in the Lex Salica. This phrase was used to free a serf:

>"Maltho thi afrio lito"

>I say, I free you, half-free.

>flemings
>dutch
Stop posting.

If you accurately want to translate Charlemagne's etnicity to modern times, he is probably southern dutch/flemish, not frech or german

It's actually probably Aachen, which is close to Maastricht

>his mother was known as "Bertrada Broadfoot' because of her clubfoot
Well, you know what they say about chicks with broad feet.

>Thinking Flemish people are Dutch
kys

Back in this thread.
>You mean Krauts that speak some Saxon dialect
Exactly, I come from the north-east and am a Saxon dog. My ties lie to Germany not the rest of the Netherlands, it is Franconian. Though not necessary all Germans of course.

The Frisians are okay but inbreeding hasn't done them well.

The sea will drown the region of Holland and most Frisians so we will have to reunite with Germany (the Saxons) and the French (Franconians) anyway. It is only realistic.

Really, nobody points out that "Krauts that speak some Saxon dialect" is an ignorant term for Low Germans and that their language is actually closer to English and Scots than to Dutch or High German?
Okay, I see whence this is coming. Greetings fellow Saxon brother.

>Really, nobody points out that "Krauts that speak some Saxon dialect" is an ignorant term for Low Germans and that their language is actually closer to English and Scots than to Dutch or High German?
I am ashamed for nothing doing so. Have mercy.

It's okay. You see, the meaning of the words Saxon(y) (Sachsen) has changed over time in the German language, and it has come to mean what used to be the March Meissen (a state that borders Poland and Czechia).
What you in the Netherlands know as Nedersaksisch is known as Plattdeutsch, Plattdüütsch or Low German in Germany.
To its speakers it is simply known as Platt (flat, low, or plain).
The Low German language is close to extinction and everyone speaks Standard German nowadays.

Same goes for people using England to refer to the entire UK.

Yep language changes, some go extinct, some flourish once again, it is life. Linguistics say that dialects do remain but the distinction that is there is very small.
Here is a nice picture of the dialect, really languages, of the Benelux.

Additional fact: the region of Groningen used to speak Frisian but switched to Low Saxon because it was good for trade.

not him, but if the flemish are not ethnically related to the dutch, then why are they essentialy culturally and linguistically the same ? what is their origin?

My regional High German dialect merely retains some minor features in pronunciation and colloquial terms from its Low German substrate. The language was essentially killed off during the 20th century. There's still some radio shows and stage plays in the dialect of Bremen, but that one is way different.
>Additional fact: the region of Groningen used to speak Frisian but switched to Low Saxon because it was good for trade.
Middle Low Saxon used to be the language of the Hanseatic League, which had quite some influence on languages adjacent to the North and Baltic Seas. It even left some loanwords in English, Swedish and Estonian.

>culturally and linguistically the same
That is some assumption you make there. Back it up with something if you are not meming around.

I personally do not know much about the ethical makeup of the low lands. What I find funny is that I had some inbuild dislike of France and the United Kingdom but my father's family has origins in Normandy and after that the UK.

My grandmother family has its origins in southern France. And there's even talk by my mother that we had gypsy mixture (dark family members).

>That is some assumption you make there.
are you fucking stupid man

they literally speak the same language

flemish and dutch languages are only marginally more different than british english and american english

>are you fucking stupid man
Even more stupid as you think.
>they literally speak the same language
You are not wrong but I see it a bit differently, I am not denying they are very similar but still see them as linguistically different since they have different substrates.

I am studying ecology so let me give you an example. A layman sees trees as essentially the same which to some extent is true. But I can also differentiate between families of trees and so forth.

I think it would be fair to call this nitpicking, but can you agree we see it a bit differently?

But I actually thought the bigger assumption was culturally. Again, for you it might seem to be nitpicking but I see it differently.

Flemish user here and you're a fucking retard.
Yes, we share the same language, but culturally we're very different.
A brit would probably glass you if you told him his culture is american because he speaks english

>Yes, we share the same language, but culturally we're very different.
What are the main differences in culture between Flanders and the Netherlands?

for example the Dutch are more outspoken while we're more introvert and polite. Also the way we speak can be wildy different; I can tell if someon's from the Netherlands the moment he opens his mouth.
I can add a lot more but i'm not here to state the obvious

The Dutch user here again, I would like to add the landscape. And when I say landscape I am not talking of the natural environment but the cultural environment which includes some anthropogenic nature.

>for example the Dutch are more outspoken while we're more introvert and polite.
That's funny. In Germany, the farther you go north, the more reserved and introverted the people become. The most outgoing and talk-active people actually live in Rhineland, which shares a large amount of borders with Belgium and some with the Netherlands.

From seeing another thread there is possible the divide between Catholic and protestant too i.e. Belgium more Catholic and the Netherlands more protestant.

I also thought that Belgium used to have more aristocracy as the Netherlands but since I do not have a source this might be a misconception.

>the divide between Catholic and protestant too i.e. Belgium more Catholic and the Netherlands more protestant.
That division doesn't ly on the border though

I hope you do know that I know. But for the thread it is good you point out.

I don't really know if Noord-Brabanders are seen as crypto Flemings or not. Maybe a Dutch user can tell us more

Nederanon hier, yes the provinces of Noord-Brabant and Limburg are pretty much the same as the Flemish, except they live within our borders. they're the only provinces who celebrate carnaval, a catholic holiday though recently multiple regions in the Netherlands celebrate it as well, but the latter two provinces do so en masse.

Noord-Brabant may have split off of Brabant, a province of Flemings IIRC.

It is interesting how Suriname is a bigger Dutch speaking population if I got that correct.
Afrikaans has drifted so far from Dutch.

>the provinces of Noord-Brabant and Limburg are pretty much the same as the Flemish
fight me faggot. Limbabwanen might be crypto-phlegmish, but we sure ain't.

Also; Zeeland, Gelderland and Overijssel all have communities that celebrate carnaval as they're dotted with protestant/catholic communities that differs only from town to town.

>Noord-Brabant may have split off of Brabant
Noord-Brabant was the seat of power of the original Nassau family; Lords of Breda. Hence; Breda Nassaustad. The lower Brabantian lands were centered more around Antwerp and Brussels (where several of our Kings were born). Loyalty just ran more deeply in these parts than they did in the lower halves.

The only thing Brabanders have in common with the phlegms are their "soft G's" and their "rolling R's", but other than that; not really.

>The lower Brabantian lands were centered more around Antwerp and Brussels (where several of our Kings were born). Loyalty just ran more deeply in these parts than they did in the lower halves.
Further note; it's also where the fighting basically stopped between the Dutch and the Spanish. Antwerp was conquered pretty early on (and had its Protestant population expelled to the North), with the rest of the borderlands exchanging hands quite frequently. It hadn't been united at all at that point (Burgundians and Habsburgs don't count, as they never did any nation building in those parts). Only up until 1815ish did they unify after the defeat of Napoleon, with Belgium breaking off as soon as 1839.

Other than language the Dutch and Belgians have never had any true similarity to eachother.

That feeling I saw this thread almost getting archived and mentioned something rather unrelated but it brought new and quality content to it anyway.

Foreigners calling me Flemish triggers me.
Dutchmen saying they're correct triggers me even more.
Being reminded that I live close to Belgium gives me PTSD.

>I also thought that Belgium used to have more aristocracy as the Netherlands but since I do not have a source this might be a misconception.

Belgium's nobility is "older" than that of the Netherlands, as they had been under steady Habsburg rule for a long time within the "H""R""E".

Contrasted to the Netherlands; where we told the Spanish King and his cronies to fuck off, leaving the Netherlands in the hands of the (by the Spanish King appointed funnily enough) Stadtholer and Ridderschap (Knighthood) and a few Dukes and Counts (most notably situated within Provinces of the loosely confederated Netherlands) - who were now the main legislators of our Republic... Then we had the Batavian Revolution that basically told all nobility that they as nobility didn't exist anymore. After which we had a new round of noble appointments when our new Kings got the rights to do so after 1813, which reshuffled the deck aswel.

And had we strictly followed all "right of the first born male" heir business, than our King would've been Michael, Prince of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach and as such we'd be the most senior agnate of the House of Wettin and therefore higher in rank than the King of Belgium and the Queen of England - who both belong to the family.

>Frisian
>Dialect

>Frisian
>Language

Wew Fryslân Boppe lad

>>Dialect
What is called dialect or not is very arbitrary anyway.

Come home catholic man

or people calling all Americans "yankees"

Fun fact: "yankee" comes from the Dutch names Jan-Kees