Aztec/Mesoamerican Thread

ON THE TRAAAIIILLL WE BLAZE!!!

this picture is really pissing me off

why the fuck would you number them in the order 2 1 3? is it to do with the era they're from?

why didnt they have iron weapons?

The Aztecs were strong, but they built an empire in a region that is very unstable for crop growing and based their religion upon blood and death in a time when they were running out of neighbors.
If the Spanish and other Euros had not shown up... the Aztecs would have done a fine job slaughtering one another.

Not well. It was at first, but the Spanish enjoyed destroying the history of those they colonized. It makes it harder for the descendants to grasp onto the past. Really smart strategy actually.

There are primary sources, but many are biased.

What we do know about them is terrifying though

There is little to no iron in the region, and if they did have it they lacked the technology to use it. They had some forged copper weapons, but you can heat up lumps of copper in a normal backyard fire and hit it with rocks until it makes a form. Hardly smelting or blacksmithing.

They also had some contacts outside of Central America. Considering how desperate they would get to gain sacrifices I am not surprised they sent out vast missions to find slaves and captives.

There is some of their art leftover too... but again it includes many terrifying things to us modern, Western folks

Blood fed the roots of this tree

This one is not so bad, just offering somebody some cocoa as payment

Like I said, cold forged metal weapons and tools

He looks comfy

And remember, the Spaniards did not take on the Aztecs alone. Remember all that kidnapping and sacrificing the Aztecs did? That built a lot of enemies over time.

The Spanish forces just had to show up and attack the Aztecs in order to draw huge numbers of natives who cared nothing about them being possible "thunder gods" or their metal... they just wanted some sweet revenge on those asshole Nahua

that's from colonial codex tho

that's the wedding of the Mixtec king 8-Deer Tiger Claw

Sure the first one is from the codex, but they had the help of the natives to get the elements "right": and I do say that in the sense of how skewed it is from the truth. Just look at that demon/pagan god... totally in the style of the Nahua gods.

And I did not know that about the second image. Thank you for the update. When I found it, the site said that it was two Aztec nobles sharing hot chocolate with one another. Turns out it's a king taking a queen drinking the cocoa. How neat

OP here. From what I've read, the Aztecs didnt use Axes in combat. I actually recently got in touch with Michael Smith and he sent me a paper about the use of "axe monies" in mesoamerica.

They used copper maces though, according to Ross Hassig.

Maybe if they wrote their own shit we wouldn't have this problem.

Stay 100.

I could believe it. The axes were not too common, so I imagine they'd be ceremonial and very expensive. They'd be useful tools though.

I imagine clear cutting forests to grow maize freshly blessed by the blood of a hundred sacrifices would go a lot faster using copper axes instead of flint, obsidian, or whatever other stones you could use.

Does anyone know if the "skull" suit was worn by a military rank or only by the general?

Not enough coverage of Mesoamerican history and mythology sadly.

I'd give a nut to have a decent mesoamerican horror story based on the mythology.

Fucking Jaguar people, caves of the damned, rivers of blood, flying serpents. Shits horrifically fantastic.

The Transition of Juan Romero by Lovecraft was a decent nod to it.

They didn't exist for the sake of historical recording.

>ywn fuck up conquistadores while wearing jaguar pajamas
Why even live

It was worn by the Tlacochcalcatl. He was the Mexica high general. He served on the supreme council of four in Tenochtitlan.

Multiple battle dresses of this type were recieved as tribute, so maybe more soldiers wore them. Its impossible to know at this point.

Stone Dance of the Chameleon is a mesoamerican inspired fantasy series. Amazingly detailed worldbuilding, but mediocre writing. Manages to be very original without any magical elements. Main character is gay if that bothers you.

Its meant to look like a spectre, there's also a blue variation. Aztecs were the most aesthetic civ of all time desu calpulli.

>Its impossible to know at this point.
shame desu

agreed

Seeing this art and interesting style makes me want to write/read an alt history novel of the two hemispheres never meeting. Anyone know of such works?

Any good books on their religion and society for beginners?

Do modern Mexians WE WUZ them?

>the Anonymous Conqueror
Everyone should read his findings, quite interesting
>They are not permitted to kill Lords,19 but they made them their prisoners, and carried them off well guarded. Soon afterwards they prepared a festival, in anticipation of which there are in the middle of the squares of the cities certain massive platforms of masonry, about half as high again as a man. One mounts these by steps, and on the top is a place as round as a quoit, and in the middle of this place is fixed a round stone, having a hole in the center.
>The Lord prisoner mounted, and was tied to the stone by the narrow part of the foot with a long thin cord. They gave him one of their swords and a buckler, and soon the same man who took him prisoner came to fight with him. If he again succeeded in the combat he was esteemed a most valiant man, and was given some insignia of feats of arms, and the Lord [26] in whose service he was gave him other rewards. But if the prisoner conquered him and six others, making in all seven vanquished, he was restored to liberty, and every one who had taken anything from him was compelled to restore it.

Aztec Philosophy: Understanding a World in Motion

Was the Inchan marriage ceremony actually as simple as shaking hands and exchangin sandals?

That's Mixrec, not Aztec.

...

The Inca were in South America, not MesoAmerica. As separate from the Aztec as ancient Rome from ancient China.

thanks

Crusader Kings II has a dlc pack which reserves history with technologically advanced Aztecs comeing to Europe and tearing the place up.

Aztecs were obsessed with getting Toltec blood into their nobility.

why did they fight in pajamas?

aztec history cucked hard by the spanish

What happened to the Tlaxcalans (sp?) after the Spanish destroyed the Triple Alliance?

>Do modern Mexians WE WUZ them?

Many, many do. But not all modern Mexicans consider themselves descendants of the Aztecs.

Not just them, literally all the major powers tried to have some link to the Toltecs or the Chichimeca. or 'Toillan'. Tollan itself is vague, and different cities qualified for this: Teotihuacan, Tenochtitlan, Cholula, Tula possibly Chichen Itza etc. Basically major cities. Many elites often speak of being legitiimized in Tollan by a more powerful King. And this custom was widespread in the Postclassic period. The Toltecs were at one time one of the more powerful civilizations in Mesoamerica. Their historical existance is questioned though and it may be possible that they were a mythical people, but were based on previously, ancient powerful civilizations (such as Teotihuacan). This Tollan is also tied with the Plumed Serpent who is believed to be also confusingly, both a deity, hero and historical man (usually the last Toltec King). Check out the book Children of the Plumed Serpent and HB Nicholsons book on Topiltzin.

>ywn never be a jaguar warrior that gets trampled by a spanish horse or has your head split open by a Tlaxcalan warrior while your wife and daughters are carried off to be raped and your memory is cucked

feels good

More like disease and their Mesoamerican enemies. The Spaniards (some weren't even from Spain) were just a small faction among tens of thousands of native troops who happened to be in the drivers seat.
They continued fighting as allies of the Spaniards south into Central America and the north against the Chichimecs. Some even went to the Phillipines.

>More like
The Spanish. Everything else was a side effect of their arrival and influence. Trying to shortchange their impact is the biggest modern meme in Mexico.

t.Hernan Cortes

The aztecs wore a multilayered fabric made of cotton, similar to a gambeson, but this armor was also covered by a weaved feather dress which absorbed a considerable amount of the missile's impact force.
In fact, those pajamas provided a great protection against atlatl missiles, which could pierce through coat of mail and inflict a mortal wound. Nevertheless, they provided less protection than breast plate armor.

>Hernan Cortes
>When posting a image that shows that Spaniards were the first guys to say that they fought alongside Natives.

WE
WUZ
JAGUAR KINGS

The Spaniards were not a hivemind. Castillo for example shows dislike towards Cortes.

NOICE

Sexy quality Veeky Forums

I am thoroughly faskinated

To add to what user said, some "American Indians" were captured by the Berbers in Algeria a couple of years after the fall of Tenochtitlan.

Redpill me on Chichimecs

To add to what user said , some "American Indians" were captured by the Berbers in Algeria a couple of years after the fall of Tenochtitlan.

>What we do know about them is terrifying though
And enough to say "yeah, they needed to be concurred."

>Sacrificing hundreds of crying children to make sure they got Rain
>muh poor noble bagins wrongly destwoyed by the mean christianists!"

Holy shit

>Brutal Aztec sacrifice was a good thing and a celebrated part of the Aztec religion
>extortion and torture for money is not condoned or celebrated in Christian theology and people who do that are condemned

Woah funny seeing that, I drew that pic like 2-3 years ago.

Make that 4 years ago. Anyway, nice thread.

It's more of a trend in Mexico now than anything, they use it as aesthetic in their shows and whatnot, name restaurants after Aztec gods, blah blah blah, I even saw a cooking show where it was a bunch of kids who were instructed to make dishes with Aztec themes. It kind of makes me upset that such an interesting and consequential part of history has been reduced to media fluff in its own region of origination, but fuck, anything to make a buck I guess.

Hey, really? I love your illustrations, they're great

What do you base them off of?

Most of them didn't have much to offer other than battle. During a battle of the Mixton War a Spaniard reported that an Indian who got shot, removed the arrow from himself and shot it back.

Id like to see a source of this.
Sounds ebin.
I know the dutch also used some native south americans to fight in skirmishes in west africa but that was 100 years later.

Aztec art is cute.

bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00548v0

...

...

Well, one hundred years of monthly battles did not only trained the Aztecs, but the Tlaxcalans as well.

Yep, I visit Veeky Forums every now and then collecting images and memes. I based them off codices. Here's the accompanying text for the pic. Just follow the numbers with the illustration:

1.This figure is a Chichimec female wearing animal skin clothing. Her reconstruction is based on a picture of a Chichimec female in the Florentine Codex. The animal skins were tanned and sometimes dyed another color. She wears a belt, probably of leather. The Chichimecs women’s hair was always long and parted in the middle. She carries a basket holding her belongings and child. Since they were nomadic, they carried everything they owned with them.

2. This figure is another example of a Chichimec woman. This was based on a drawing from the Mapa de Iztacapan. She wears a skirt from a jaguar’s hide. She is probably the wife of a leader. Leaders generally wore jaguar, puma, wolf, or lynx hides while regular Chichimecs wore fox, coyote, squirrel or deer skins. Leaders only had one wife too, in contrast to Mesoamerican noble men and rulers who often had multiple wives.

3. This figure is an example of a Chichimec male belonging to the Guamare people. He is based on descriptions left by Spaniards. The Guamare are from Jalisco, Queretaro, Aguascalientes and Guanajuato. A group of Guamares are known as the ‘White Chichimecs’ because they used white paint on their faces and bodies. Many also dyed their hair red. His deerskin cape signifies that he is a regular in his group. His painted designs are typical of Chichimec designs, which consisted of geometric shapes, curvy lines, lizards or other beasts. Many Chichimecs wore little clothing, most only using a cape and sometimes a loincloth. Most of the male outfits are based on military clothing, since that is the only drawn examples from the time period that survived. During battle, Chichimecs would cast off their loincloths. He carries a quiver around him in the typical Chichimec way. In his hand is an obsidian mirror. Chichimec males often carried mirrors with them.

4. This figure is an example of a Chichimec male belonging to the Guachichil people. He is based on Spanish descriptions and the Codex Florentine’s depiction of a Chichimec. These people roamed a vast area around the Mexican states of Coahuila, Zacatecas, San Luis Potosí, Guanajuato and northeastern Jalisco. The Guachichiles received their names from the Aztecs which meant “heads painted red” in Nahuatl. This Chichimec wears a headband, animal skin loincloth, and a jaguar cape (indicating his status as a leader). He also carries a quiver covered by jaguar skin. His red face paint, red hair and red feather headdress (the headdress also being an indicator of his status) identify him as a Guachichil.

5. This figure is an example of another Chichimec leader. He is based on a figure from the Codex Telleriano-Remensis. He wears a circular fan-like device of yellow feathers, which are also described in the Codex Florentine. His hair is cut short at the top and long on the sides and back (part of it is braided too). He carries a bow and wears black face paint. In the image he is based on he wears no loincloth, so I have excluded it here too.
6. This figure is the final example of a Chichimec, who also happens to be a leader. He is based on a figure from the Codex Kingsborough. He wears a lynx cape indicating his status as a leader. He also wears sandals made of yucca or palm leaf fiber. He wears a squirrel and feather piece on his head and also lacks a loincloth.

Sources:
–Bernardino de Sahagún. 1590.Florentine Codex: General History of the Things of New Spain. (vol 10) trans. Charles E. Dibble and Arthur J. O Anderson. (1950-1982).
–Codex Kingborough.
–Codex Telleriano-Remensis.
–Flores Olagüe, Jesús y Vega, Mercedes de. 1996. Breve historia de Zacatecas, México, ed. Fondo de Cultura Económica.
–Monroy Castillo, María Isabel (1997) Breve historia de San Luis Potosí, México.

>ywn bite the nose off adulterers in public before a seated dignitary.

>ywn make a Dirty Business reference during this ceremony.

Spartans of medieval Mexico?

You sure that one isn't Maya?

It's Aztec. This is Maya.

Why didn't mesoamerican powers expand their control of territory north of mexico?

Whoa I wanna read this

If I go to Mexico can I get a cheech gf??

You're a great artist! What else have you done?

Yeah the lack of writing should be a dead giveaway

>patan

They're mostly urban oriented states.

In addition, Nahua states refered to nearby North American Tribes as "Chichimeca." Which carries the same meaning as the term "barbarian."

Did Chichimecs have a concept of private property?

This thread makes me wanna open a Mexican restaurant

What's the risk of leaving your penis exposed?

Are they going to war or having a slumber party. Those are some sweet onesies.

Probably some dank memes.

Well a chief's gonna need some babies in the next world, you know.

Not much use if you get shot in the nuts.

No wonder they lost

They submerged the cotton for their armor in a salty brine. The cotton would soak up all the salt and become incredibly tough. Spaniards of the time said it wasn't any less effective than their steel armor, if a bit unwieldy.

Que onda putos?