Mazdamaru Rotaru

the rotary is already perfect

Depends on whether Mazda can figure out how to solve the engine's trouble with emissions and shitty mpg's.

with emissions regulations im not optimistic

but if anyone could do it it would be mazda

the new GT-R will just be expensive as shit and nobody here will be able to afford it anyway

a RX-9 might actually be obtainable to the average person

It's still better than arguing about which one has more power or which one is heavier etc.

my biggest problem with the rotary is low end torque, reliability, gas mileage and sound

3/4 can be fixed if it's a hybrid, and the last part if it has turbo noises

>hybrid dorito
Oh, now there's an idea that had never crossed my mind. I wonder if they could make that work and pick up a little bigger market segment in the process.

they want to bring it back using hydrogen fuel

they had to can it because it couldn't meet emissions and mpg requirements, but hydrogen is a perfectly viable fuel to use and solves that problem while still retaining power

BUT user
THATS NOT ELECTRIC, WHY DO YOU HATE THE ENVIRONMENT
JUST BUY A TESLA LIKE THE REST OF US, YOU'RE NOT A REAL RACE CAR DRIVER

Mazda isn't planning on using the rotary hydrogen concept as a standalone engine, right now it seems like it's destined for range extender use.

While hydrogen fixes the Wankel rotaries emission issue, it also cuts the engines horsepower nearly in half from 200hp to around 100hp.

Hybridizing the rotary would only serve as a weak band aid, the engine still cannot pass emission tests and is extremely inefficient at properly burning fuel.

So what I don't get is, does the apex seal only have one small point where it contacts the wall and closes the combustion chamber, or does it scrape along it?

Yes, the rotary engine has a future.

...

As a range extender in Mazda's future electric vehicles.

leaf springs in the rotors push the apex seals into the housing wall directly, if it's scraping then somethings fucked.

Kill yourself faggot

Jews?

the electric jew

...

youtube.com/watch?v=gYfR7WbwhUw

This guy?

Use the rotary engine as a range extender, like the Volt.

Oh

> it also cuts the engines horsepower nearly in half from 200hp to around 100hp.
More rotors then. Like a 6 rotor hydrogen powered wankel engine

Wouldnt it just be easier to just spin a 2 or 3 rotor to 20,000RPM? I heard the clutch (shatters into dangerous fragments when spun fast enough) is the limiting factor on wankel operation.

I just want a four rotor engine available that doesn't cost >$50k

You'll almost always hear misinformation on why rotaries only spin as fast as they do. The real reason (at least for the FD and RX-8) was that the stock ignition systems were too weak.

The real real reason is because the stock porting doesn't allow for it. A stock ported engine hits a rotary equivalent of valve float where all the exhaust can't get out and not enough can get in. a bridge ported engine is able to rev loads higher than stock for example

Supposedly they're close to finding a way to completely ignite the fuel during combustion, leading to less waste and emissions.

>Supposedly they're close to finding a way to completely ignite the fuel during combustion
obviously having 8 spark plugs around the whole engine is the answer

thats either an RX-8 engine or a pre 1986 engine. My guess is an 8 bc that apex seal look thin.

I dont really like the concept for the Rx they debuted a while back. That fish mouth looking grill they have going on all their cars right now doesnt look very good to me. I also think the front end was to long and the cabin was to far to the back of the car making it look like someone stretched the car. I know its just a concept but I hope they tone back this stuff before they announce a production model.

what is the best way to obtain a 13b? Do I buy an eighties rx7 or is it better to buy just the engine off of some spic? Are ebay engines any good? I want to rebuild and port it myself

I got mine from JDM Inc on eBay. it depends alot of the condition of the housings. every idiot screams about apex seals but those were only an issue with the engines in the 60s-early 70s when they were made of carbon. But its the coolant o-rings that are the most common issue. THey're basicly the headgasket of the car. Buy a 86 or later 13B. They re-clearanced the internals in 86 and moved the o ring grooves from the rotor housings to the iron housings and the parts are not interchangeable with pre 1986 motors. some parts interchange but the housings don't. pic related, ebay engine.

my fear is buying one of these engines and all the housings and irons are fucked

how much did you pay for yours, did you rebuild yours?

Yeah supposedly they are figuring out some weird laser or plasma ignition system that can light up the whole combustion chamber, which would theoretically solve the emissions and fuel issues.

Adding more spark plugs would reduce compression and net very little benefit otherwise. Although 26B's actually have a third trailing spark plug in the housings weirdly enough.

>3.9L

it's more of a 2.6 but it is still fun to say you got beat by a 1.3 liter lmao

A 1.3L two-rotor engine comes out to 2.6L technically.

1250. with shipping. I honestly just wanted the block itself bc I was going to sell the fuel injection and turbo stuff bc i just wanted an motor for my first gen. We ran a compression test (my dad worked with mazda from 78 into the 90s as a master tech) with an actual mazda tester and it tested within spec so we didnt tear it down. Also the o-ring issue only becomes apparent after you drive the car for awhile because it takes a bit for the engine compression to bleed into the cooling system and over-pressurize the radiator cap. They're easy to rebuild, I've done 2 so far and I'd never torn down an engine before those. Just be sure to be very picky about who you listen to about these motors, most people have no idea what they're talking about. Even OP's picture of the engine cycle isn't quite accurate, since the engine doesn't quite fit into the Otto 4 cycle that neatly.

Displacement measures the maximum area that's used for the fuel/air mixture. The whole rotor isn't being used, just a third of it. The only way that could be right is that a rotary complete three ignitions in a revolution while a piston engine needs two revolutions to complete one ignition.

A proper 4-rotor build that isn't just two 13B's strapped together will cost you above 100k.

>The whole rotor isn't being used, just a third of it
all of the rotor is being used, all of the time

Tell me how you would calculate the compression ratio on a rotary engine.

though the engine code is 13B or 12A, under the hood on the emissions sticker, mazda lists it as 40cubic inch X 2 chambers/ 35 CID X 2, not 80 cubic inch/ 70CID.

rx7.com/techarticles_displacement.html

those indents are the compression dishes

>my dad worked with mazda from 78 into the 90s as a master tech
how does one become a rotary mechanic at a mazda dealership? i always wondered

Mazda already did it once, of course they can do it again!

I get both the 2.6 and the 3.9 measurements. but I'm saying it's stated as 40x2 under the hood. useless trivia, dealer sticker used to say "2cyl R"

Soooo, to get the correct answer, what is the volume you would use for the intake "stroke"

That is the displacement.

lol it was in gulfport ms, and they were a volkswagen dealership and before they could get the mazda franchise, they had to have someone trained to work on the engine/cars. dad said it was a 5 day training, first 3 days were on the rotary engine. in 81 he was the person mazda listed to be trained on the motor in our state. pic related, rx7 he's worked on since 96

they probably did it that to avoid government restrictions on engine size or whatever, although most figured it out and taxed them hard anyways.

40 x 2, or 35 x 2. dad said that's how mazda listed them in training. he said they were always banned from the local race tracks bc they didn't know how to classify the engines. I had a guy explain me once how they're a 6.6 liter engine

>post you're yfw when mazda creates a brand new spinner that's fuel efficient, green, and much more powerful
>rx9 becomes the fastest accelerating car on the planet, beating out the demon and Tesla "0-60 is the only relevant day to day metric" Model S
>it destroys burgerking records and annihilates the EP NIO
>MR layout
>6-speed only

>Veeky Forums would fucking break

I have no doubt that was a big part of it. incudently, emissions weren't an issue with the cars until they fazed out thermal reactors and went to catalytic converters

>MR layout
>6-speed only
too bad we don't live in that universe, our universe sucks

>*apex seals blown the fug out*

It's Mazda, literally /ourguy/s.

Oh, and they also solve the apex seals problems too, somehow.

>Oh, and they also solve the apex seals problems too, somehow.
The world will fear the rotary samurai.

>folded steel apex seals

He looks familiar. What was his name, again?

the rx7 has a front mounted midship layout, if that makes u feel better

Dr. Dorito, Apex Seals PhD

yeah, but rear mount wouldn't be hard because of the size

It'd be pretty hilarious if Mazda solved all the issues with the rotary engine, they'd have the car industry by the balls and squealing.

>tfw pistoncucks will be completely and utterly btfo

Man that sucks. The whole point of wankels is to rev to the sky.

>rotorextinctfag thinks cars in the future will have engines

So if one major reason for the rotary's poor fuel efficiency is its low compression, then Skyactiv-R is probably going to have an economy turbo similar to Ford Ecoboost, right?

Rotary engines are a fad, and engineering out the problems would take more hassle than it's worth. Why do you think Mazda stopped?

Compression isn't the issue, rotaries get shit emissions and fuel economy because they can't ignite all the fuel during it's elongated combustion cycle.

Mazda has around 100 engineers working on the project, although I agree they risk killing themselves again if they go full out on development.

true that.

that's why people port them

ICE is going to exist for quite some time even when EV's become fully viable alternatives.

Is there any reason no one has seriously looked into Liquidpiston? liquidpiston.com/

Yeah, because they're trying to compare power output. How much it actually displaces, i.e. in terms of relevance to manufacturing, is more relevant than "muh feelings"

>do rotaries have a future?
The existing design is kill for a reason while it makes sense in race cars (as proven by 787B) it isn't something you want in your daily.

popularmechanics.com/cars/a8174/liquidpistons-hyper-efficient-engine-turning-the-rotary-inside-out-13817971/
However I think this "inside-out" rotary has potential.

>Liquidpiston
i wonder when the patents expire

So would have Wankel won or lost if the inverted rotary is better? It's similar in idea, but vastly different in execution.

...

mine had 120,000 miles before the motor got low on compression. mom drove it to work for years

It's an open ended question, I'd argue the wankel rotary engine still has plenty of room for improvement and is largely underdeveloped.

However the liquid piston engine has a head start on the efficiency side of things but it seems limited to small applications like generators or UAV's.

>sealing a triangular prism in a short fat peanut
>good
It was a decent attempt at making a different engine but ultimately it failed
It should have been thrown in the pile of failed engine designs
Only thing the rotary is good at is power to didplacemt ratio but that doesnt nakr up for it being unreliable and inefficient
What we need to invest in is radial engines

so could i put a rotary in a miata? ive been thinking about doing it because i dont want to give up my miata but theres no good rx7s for sale anywhere near me

yes, I am in the middle of doing the same thing. The bellhousing of an FC 5-speed bolts right up to a miata 5-speed so the driveshaft and PPF all stays miata. you need to modify the input shaft of the miata because it's too long for the 13b to take >:3. there is no worrying about shifter fitment and shit because it is all miata. as far as mounting the 13b in the miata, lucky7racing offers a mounting kit for $2k. I think it is worth it because R&D is the hardest part about an engine swap and this mount gets rid of that pain in the ass. I'll be using megasquirt to get everything running.

it rubs along the housing, but it's lubricated with oil. it seals the combustion chamber, but not always perfectly (e.g. when there's a spark plug hole)

yo so i just pop off the miata trans and pop on the fc one? also i know you gotta trim the input shaft, if i remember correctly, an inch and a half.
time to hunt down a parts fb and a 13b w/ fc trans, i want that interior in my miata so bad
also post pics or something i wanna peep this build

>also post pics or something i wanna peep this build
all I have right now is a FC trans case. I'm waiting to find a shitty 13b on craigslist for

the concept version of the miata (1988) had a rotary engine in it

a 13b belongs in that car but mazda didn't want it to shit all over rx7 sales, because it would have

idk if i want to buy a rebuilt one or a shitty one from cl bc god knows how much ill have to pour into it to get it back up and running
ill need a standalone ecu to get the engine running tho, right? just making sure
ya and i wish it did have one