Is bulking and cutting the most effective method for a natty lifter?

>not getting frozen rice

You contradicted yourself in your own post.

You will never look big AND ripped as a natty lifter. Go for bearmode (perma-bulk) or become shredded ottermode (cut if you're not a DYEL anymore).

>i train like a retard and can't make progress so no one natural can
I bet you believe in half the bodybuilding builshit that goes around like TUT, supersets/dropsets and size!=strength too

the difference is,
is it a clean bulk or a fatty bulk.

Raising your calories and protein intake to reach your next level is fine, but it's still a count of total nutrition no different than if you are trying to lose weight.
You shouldn't add another 500 calories to your diet to meet your needs, if so you'll end up a fat shit. Small amounts, weekly checkups.
If you notice you're gaining more fat you're not burning enough calories in your diet and the bulk is pointless.
You can gain muscle without gaining fat.

Bulking doesn't make any sense to me.
Why do I need to gain fat just to gain muscle? They're made of completely different things. Couldn't I just eat lots of protein, no excess carbs and maintain my bf% whilst gaining muscle at the same rate?
Why do I need to gain fat?

If I bulk, I make sure I lean bulk and only eat in an 8 hour window.

This makes sure I only gain lean muscle, as opposed to fat muscle which is better for raw strength, than functional strength, which is what I'm going for.

You are misunderstanding me. You should never have to 'cut' weight except for the two reasons I listed above, and you should never eat more than you need to gain muscle. there is no repeatable cycle of gaining and losing weight that is more effective than that.

put it another way- if you are not fat, you should never need to eat at a deficit. You wil gain muscle by exercising and eating an appropriate surplus.

If you are fat, you will need to "cut" once- until you're not, and then you can eat at maintenance or gain lean muscle. You never need to do it more than once unless you fucked up.

it has no benefits, it's extremely harmful in some cases(bodybuilders are not healthy when they cut) and fat will never magically become muscle. You are wasting your time and money getting fat and thin over and over again. It is a fraud.
Not in the slightest, my good man
>tips fedora

It does make sense.

There is technically an amount of calories you can eat every day and gain zero fat, but figuring out that exact amount is next to impossible, and eating at it is even more so, just because of tiny fluctuations in how many calories you burn per day, maybe you walked a small bit more, or jumped, all those things add up to change how many calories you burn by a small margin. So you just over shoot the calories by 100-400 so you're safe and gain muscle with a small amount of fat with it.

BS. if that's the case, you're not working hard enough. You body is already capable of handling variable caloric intake from day to day, that's evolution right there.

You just want an excuse to eat crap food and get fat when you're not worried someone's going to see you with your shirt off.

Can you provide us with some legit sources on this from trusted people?

>You can gain muscle without gaining fat.
Yes, but you cannot increase your bench, squat and deadlift by 50lbs each in 4 months without becoming a bear-mode, obese motherfucker.

If you hold that muscle-filled and fat-coated obesity for 2-3 months and then cut down over 2 months, you'll end up in a better place than 8 months of a clean body-recomp would have gotten you.

Ofcourse, this takes dedication and willpower, both in not becoming a fat fuck forever and in maintaining being a fat fuck (which sucks donkey balls) long enough to hit a size-gain wall and start a recomp, before cutting down.

>Why do I need to gain fat?
You don't. But insuling builds everything. Unless you're on androgens, you cannot keep it from building up fat as well as muscle.
Hence, you build up everything at once and then kill the shit you didn't need.

If you're on androgens, you'll don't need to bulk to gain muscle mass in a quick manner. But it also helps.

What the fuck? How does that not make sense or have anything to do with working hard enough, are you retarded?

I'll even give you an example, say your body needed exactly 3214 calories to build muscle, first off figuring that out is next to impossible, next ,how are you possibly going to eat exactly that number? Food labels aren't accurate to the calorie and are allowed something like -/+10%. So instead you eat at 3400 calories and you get 186 calories towards fat, which is roughly 5% of a pound of fat gained per day, or rougly 1lb of fat every 20days, which really isn't much. Do that for like 3ish months and you've gained 5lbs of fat which doesn't take very long to cut off.

He can't because all the legit people will tell you that natties must bulk, if they don't want to be 'natural bodybuilders' i.e. 160 pounds of stringy, flat muscles on stage or have a 180-190lbs beach body with 12% body fat.

Why do you reccomend a recomp before cutting?

Also, you seem to know a thing about bulk/cut; what program should one do to maintain strength during the cutting cycle?

Just do your normal program while cutting, maybe lower your maxes by like 10-20lbs since you may not be able to lift that much. You shouldn't be altering your programming very much unless you're on some absurdly hard program while bulking.

Sure. How's this:
scoobysworkshop.com/bulking-and-cutting/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3AG-oCXTE
>Jeff Cavaliere

t-nation.com/training/truth-about-bulking
>Thibaudeau

muscleevo.net/cutting-and-bulking/
no clue who this guy is but he's got credentials.

it's basically completely accepted as broscience at this point and should probably be in the sticky.

look- humans are designed to be efficient. we recomposition our bodies automatically based on intake and output to meet the necessary demands we put on it. Automatically.

part of that process is smoothing off irregularities in calorie intake from day to day to keep the body functioning. We're not like deisels, we don't shut down without fuel, we've adapted many ways to store excess energy, release it and regulate it.

if you are trying to gain strength and stay fit, you should work hard enough that you have to actively pursue intake to even get ahead of what you need.

In extreme cases, you get the Phelps diet, dude is eating 12K kcal per day to maintain his muscle and train as well. In normal cases, the best way to gain muscle is to gradually increase your output(lifting) and your input(eating) so they match, and you have to keep that up until you are at the size you want and you maintain. It's incremental and averaged over time.

Frank fuckin' Zane eats around 2000 kcal a day and he looks phenomenal at 70. sometimes more, sometimes less. if he wanted to get bigger, he'd eat a little more, like 2250, then 2500 after he tops out and so on.