Why are you not going vegan yet, Veeky Forums?

Humans are not naturally omnivores. Look at our teeth and our digestive system. We are not made to consume meat. It's possible because our ancestors made us evolve this way due to survival, but absolutely not natural.

It is not difficult to get the nutrition you need from plant-based food at all. Do research.

Uncofortablity and stigma are ok reasons I guess, tho I think you shouldn't care what people think.

Cooking vegan is not hard at all, you don't have to be a picky eater. Vegans can eat at any restaurant meat-eaters can.

Vegan food is usually delicious actually, but that's subjective.

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Nope. Not at all. Joe Namath, Venus Williams, Robbie Haseley, all great athletes and all vegan.

>Do research
"You should change to be more like this way i'm telling you to be"
"Why"
"Go find out"
lol fuck off

Lol lots of vegans do have a problem with shoving it in everyone's faces, but not me. I just thought it would be a great topic here, since this is a board for fitness.

lol, 50g is less than the reccomended intake for a sedentary man from the DRI.

Yeah sorry I dont give a flying fuck about how a fish feels, you vegans seem to feel to deep into shit that isn't even there. And no fish and other barely sentient beings like chickens are not "just like me".

I eat animal products and still do my part ecologically, is being vegan okay if you drive a hummer?

Please tell me how eating honey and eggs are ethically wrong.

Whats your goal with promoting veganism?

Well bodies are different and need different things to thrive. Also, "thrive" is subjective. What is your idea of a thriving body? How much protein (since that's what everyone wants to bring up in this debate) do you need to thrive? Because nearly all vegetables, beans, grains, nuts, and seeds contain some, and often much, protein. it's up to you to see for yourself tho.

vegans are just big crybabies. they want to sympathize with every fucking thing its so damn feminine, its a dog eat dog world learn to compete or just fuckin kill urself already. ya sorry i dont let a fuckin cows feelings change my diet, and no your not some sort of fucking animal saviour.

My goal is to get people to think about it. I feel like since there is such a strong stigma towards veganism, most people dont even look into it.

having raised chickens many times over, I can say without a doubt that they are dumb as shit.

But they lay amazing eggs when they are actually free range, so you can make all kinds of gains from them.

It doesn't matter if they're "dumb" or not, they are alive and have a will to live. Isn't that enough to make you not want to kill them?

THANK YOU WALKING BIRD OF GAINS

ive went vegan for a few weeks, i didn't feel as good and wasn't recovering as well, i was eating more carbs than usual and supplementing two scoops (50g protein) of vegetable based protein powder. There is no way to function as a weightlifter/bodybuilder as a vegan, its simply a disadvantage.

I eat and respect animals, I don't over consume meat products, I support organic sustainable farming practises (first hand..) and feel gratitude for the animals I eat.

Veganism is just too extreme, its like a religious rule that you cant eat meat, people follow it as a fad and ignore what there body needs.

I do agree that the general american diet could benefit from a decrease in meat consumption, and increase in plant based foods, but I think the biggest change would be in supporting local sustainable and as ethically right farming practices as possible.

Cutting animal products out completely is just ridiculous, I will never give up salmon sushi or eggs. They are way too nutrient dense and tasty.

isnt that enough? lol why are you such a beta faggot

How do you eat more carbs than usual on a vegan diet? You don't need powders or supplements, nearly all vegetables, beans, grains, nuts, and seeds contain some, and often much, protein. Of course you won't feel good quitting meat cold turkey, that's your body adjusting to the new diet. It's the same reason people experience headaches and stomach aches after giving up soda.

And I don't think it's too extreme to just not want to kill and eat living creatures who do not want to be killed or eaten. Especially if it's not necessary.

I don't think there is a way to ethically commit murder man.

Because my ideals are dissimilar to yours. I like meat and believe that with my genetics I can live well into my 90s as my great grandfather did and my grandfather is on his way to doing while eating a diet that includes animal products. I also believe that all moral arguments are subjective and right and wrong are matters of perspective. My perspective is that correlation does not equate to causation in the matter of animal suffering and my role in it.

When the opponent stoops to insults and has no actual comeback, you have one the argument.

Nice talkin to ya.

Bravo, the first actual good answer in this entire thread. Right on bro.

I'm a vegetarian and you sound like a total nu-male faggot. Organic is a completely bullshit meme and it's laughable that you actually fall for that shit.

>local sustainable
>ethically right

pick one people fucking starve so you can have your subsidized bullshit which wouldn't survive in an actual market.

As for the veganism question I'm vegetarian for health reasons and antibiotic resistance reasons. Veganism is a little extreme though I do agree with it in the sense that antibiotics are used extensively on egg chickens and dairy cows. I could never give up my cottage cheese for gains though.

one, we raise egg breeds. If youd ever gotten out of your liberal paradise, you would know that animals are bred for specific traits. Meat birds are completely different. Ours are hybrids, but their primary purpose is eggs.

And killing them is completely natural. We lose about 5-10% to eagles each year. Death is a part of nature and trying to ignore it leads to the sterilization of food. So many people have no idea where their food comes from. To them, it comes from the store. People need to realize that meat comes from fluffy little animals that eat smaller animals and grains. Occasionally our cows will eat a chick. Nature in action.

vegetarian for antibiotic reistance but you think organic is bullshit? thats why i choose organic, its a dumb premium you pay to ensure that your food isnt bombarded with chemicals and neurotoxins.

continue to eat your digusting non-organic pastuerized dairy.

Lol bro I'm from Indiana ain't shit liberal around here. I just have my own mind and don't do what everyone in my community does because it's the norm. And yes, death is apart of nature, but billions of animals killed a year UNNECESSARILY is not. And I guess you can eat all the hen periods you want man but none for me.

>he thinks organic means they can't use chemicals

look up copper sulfide dude and maybe read a book for once in your life, "organic" is a complete meme and you're literally throwing your money away to inefficient subsidized farmers who sit on their ass most of the day employing underpaid illegal immigrants to do the dirty work that conventional farming solved years ago while they laugh at the idiots who actually fall for that shit.

> Vegans can eat at any restaurant meat-eaters can.
Yeah, because out of an entire menu, my gf can order a salad. That's all. Everything else has meat or animal products in it.

Face it, the vast vast vast majority of regular restaurants do not cater to vegans. End of discussion.

> lots of vegans do have a problem with shoving it in everyone's faces, but not me
> but not me
> not me
> HEY GUYS BE VEGAN WHY AREN'T YOU VEGAN BEING VEGAN IS GREAT DID I MENTION I'M A VEGAN
> not me

Make up your fucking mind.

yeah bro, wouldn't want to eat more than 50g of protein

you looking to get toned for summer? Be careful not to overtrain or you'll end up looking like Arnold

Obviously they don't cater to vegans. It's not the popular opinion to be vegan. Salad or not, it's still food and it's still available to her there.

maybe be a nice boyfriend and take her to a vegan-friendly place once? You guys should really try some of the meat substitutes we have, alot of them are actually good as fuck (Tofu is disgusting tho, IMO)

Protip: Riblets from places like Whole Foods are fucking tasty

My meat isn't certified organic because its an expensive certification for a such a small farm to have.

Are organic grains better than non organic grains? Most of the time yes. Organic doesn't equal healthy but its a decent precaution if you have the money to spend. Have you studied the affects of commerical farming practises and quality of dirt? There is definite value in organic farming, and no its not perfect, and yes sometimes uncertified can be the same if not better.

Do you still think tap water is okay?

Hey, so this isn't entirely true. Lots of chemicals are used in most organic agriculture, just organic compounds like copper (which will kill you dead) or synthetic compounds held in high regard by the certifying body.

Typically though we prefer to use methods like mechanical/flame weeding, crop rotation, or tilling to deal with things, and most of the time downy mildew can be stopped with baking soda. but if you think for one second we'd let our entire crop go to a fungus before spraying copper sulfate you are very mistaken.

Dude, this is a place to talk about diets and excerise and other things that go along with fitness. Notice how I didn't post this on a random ass board just to get shit replies, I wanted to have a discussion about it.

Vegan OP post a picture of your physique.

I'm no farmer so I can't tell you how to get rid or a fungus without copper sulfate, but agriculture existed for thousands of thousands of years before we decided to throw chemicals on our crops for sustainability, so I'm sure there's a way to get rid of that problem better.

>Do you still think tap water is okay?

In most places, yes.

>Organic doesn't equal healthy

I think this needs to be talked about more. A lot of people purchase organic for the wrong reasons; this idea that these chemical sprays end up in our bodies is silly when most of us wash the vegetables, cook them, or process them in some way. We should be worrying about the agricultural sector. Glyphosate accumulation is soil is scary because it's killing all the bacteria we need there, not because it's making anyone sick.

...

I agree, its better to actually understand and SEE the farming practises at work (aka buy local, or visit the farm you buy from, and ask questions).

Costco Organic Berry Mix was in the news recently, I think about 9 people got hepatitis A from it so far? Dumb illegal immigrants man they are not sanitary at all.

> maybe be a nice boyfriend
Thanks for assuming I'm not, you piece of shit. We don't live in a city, or even a large town. We live in a farming community in far north Queensland where 99.999999% of people are not vegan. None of the places in my town are vegan, the closest one that's even semi-vegetarian is a 40-minute drive away, and it's two hours to go to an actual vegan place.

I'm not vegan, I don't plan to be, I plan to keep eating meat. I've tried your meat substitutes. They're not as good.

Vegan threads are posted four or five times a day, and they're always identical
> HEY WHY AREN'T YOU VEGAN
> i don't want to be, I like eating meat
> WELL YOU'RE CONTRIBUTING TO LITERALLY TRILLIONS OF ANIMALS DEATHS A YEAR
> my not eating meat will not change that one iota. The meat I don't buy will be bought by someone else
> WELL THEN EVERYONE SHOULD BECOME VEGAN
> you'll put millions of people out of work and one of the most profitable industries in the world will collapse, alongside local farmers who are just trying to earn a living
> LOL I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM

>in most places, yes.

But what about the fluoride? Shit is poison, and it's in all of the U.S.'s water supply.

> posting super meat-filled webms in all vegan threads
I back it

No. There wasn't, which is why our societies have advanced. There's a reason that as we have developed smarter and better methods of crop protection, our societies have flourished. Because I can produce food in quantities orders of magnitude larger than what we could do 200 years ago, people are free to pursue other careers and avenues. Like it or not, but modern agriculture is responsible for the food security we have today.

Simply put, thousands of years ago if downy mildew settled in, I'd lose my crop and starve to death.

I've killed chickens. They don't seem to have any greater desire to live than an ant, in fact I've seen ants struggle more. How do you know that plants don't have a will to live? There's a lot more to plants than most people think. If you don't respect plants as much as you do animals and human beings then you lack a fundamental understanding of nature.

Why should I care if an animal like a deer or a grouse has a will to live? I am a predator, it's only natural for me to kill and eat. Would you deny this to a lion or bear?

Because I'm not ready to tell my parents I'm gay yet.

FUCK thats some natty shit right there man

if that doesn't make ur mouth water ur a BETA FAGGOT

Plants dont have nervous systems, therefore cannot feel.

I've also killed chickens before. Like I said, I'm from Indiana, which is called the most southern northern state, lots of farms here. It's the reason I am a vegan.

> Plants dont have nervous systems, therefore cannot feel.
It's been proven that lobsters do not feel pain when they are boiled alive. From your reasoning, it's ok to eat lobster if you're a vegan.

No it hasn't, it's actually up for scientific debate as of now.

"Lobsters may feel even more pain than we would in similar situations. According to invertebrate zoologist Jaren G. Horsley, “The lobster does not have an autonomic nervous system that puts it into a state of shock when it is harmed."

peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/factory-farming/fish/lobsters-crabs/

Yes, it's from Peta. Doesn't mean it isn't true.

>I eat and respect animals

Cog diss

I have Crohns Disease and I'm allergic to soy. My doctors told me if I want to continue living I MUST EAT MEAT, it's one of the few nutritious things I can still eat. You want me to die of malnutrition for your goddamned motherfucking ETHICS? Fuck you, fuck your faggot lifestyle, go drink bleach and die.

Damn, I had plenty of dinner but that makes me HUNGRY. That's some good shit right there.

There is a direct relationship between consciousness and intelligence.

THANK YOU WALKING BIRDS OF GAINS

The existence of barbecue alone necessitates that I slaughter animals for my own enjoyment.

Hey faggot, I live on a farm. Guess where we get our meat from? That's right, we butcher them ourselves. That chicken I had for dinner? I grabbed it out of the yard, took it over to a stump, put stretched it's neck out over it, and gave it one good chop with a nice sharp cleaver. Looked it square in the eyes when I did it, too. Once it stopped running around the yard with no head, we plucked it, gutted it, butchered the meat, and made some nice fresh fried chicken, and I barbecued the breasts for myself. Mmmm! Nothing like nice fresh chicken, beats the fuck out of anything from the store that's been sitting around in plastic for days, nice and juicy! You vegan faggots don't know what you're missing. Enjoy being skinny and weak, veganfag. Maybe when civilization falls apart, we'll be eating YOU instead, seeing as you eat what food eats, LOL.

fuckin right

vegans are weak and only push their agenda because they know theyre beta and feel inferior for it

I heard some guy talking about how it's a conspiracy to make men non-aggressive and malleable and turn the world into a gynarchy. Sounds a little crazy but with some of the shit I hear I wonder sometimes if he's right.

>Once it stopped running around the yard with no head

This is how I know you've never killed a chicken in your life.

Dude vegan diet is perfect for being on cut are you autistic?

I was 120KG now 80KG. Barely doing any exercise in an office job.

Not that guy but my cut is on 1300 calories. Try to fit 150 gr of vegan protein in there without exceeding the limit. You can't. Vegan is great for bulking tho.

I can think of no realistic way to get to 150g of protein on 1500kcals on a vegan diet. But perhaps there's something I'm missing, if so please do tell.

Nice broscience fucktard. Plenty of studies show benefits to not consuming less than 80g/day. High protein intake protects against fatty liver.

there are videos online of chickens doing exactly this.

Because the only good arguments for it are ecological and economical. And I'm just as jaded and detached about these issues as the next guy.
I'm contemplating it though. Basically already eat mostly vegetarian, so might as well go balls deep, I guess.

You'll have a lot of estrogen, it happen to some guy that uses to be vegan for 5 years and said "I was 21, young and stupid"

Why is animal life sacred in this context but plants not? What makes one organism worthy of protecting but not others? Where do you draw a line?

I don't draw one. I'd eat anything because in the end, we're humans and we're superior.

I've thought about it but I'm not loud or annoying enough to pull it off

^

Thank you, walking bird of gains!

Meat doesn't taste like dirt

Aren't vegetables living beings too?

Not the one you responded to, but the most common argument is the capability to suffer.
This is quite a clever line, since pain isn't a very good one.

Now the debate might be about what constitutes suffering. Personally, I'd say it's simply meta-cognition. (The ability to "think about" oneself.)
There aren't many animals to whom this can be applied with scientific evidence. However, most mammals apply here. Cows and pigs in particular.

Another good basis for animal ethics is probably the comparability of pro-social behavior. If an animal is capable to put you in an interactive social construct, it is arguably an ethical subject, rather than an object. Meaning (at least to some degree) human ethics apply. Most people agree to this at least a little.

Personally, if someone tells me they don't eat fish, shellfish or even chicken for ethical reasons, I instantly think they are stupid.

they are devoid of a self so they dont matter ;)

Just like vegans :D

>not a good answer

you asked why he didn't go vegan
he said he didn't feel like it

who are you to judge that he has different reasons for not going vegan?

>Health benefits you'd get from the switch are well worth it tho.

There's a long term health increase when people go vegan mostly because they don't just give up meat but a lot of other shit like candy and other processed bullshit however not eating meat is dangerous at long term (several years) and brings health issues that far outweigh the pro's of a vegan diet at any term, short or long.

So go vegetarian, vegan is literally a hype, probably some vegetarian who thought he wasn't snowflake enough.

Or decide to eat meat only in the weekends, your immune system will thank you

>joe namath is a vegetarian
meaning he still eats animal products and still gets animal proteïn, just not in the shape of meat

>venus williams
Tennis doesn't require a lot of strength or hypertrophy plus she's a woman so that's even less strength and hypertrophy

>robbie haseley
I had to use quotation marks on the full name and even then google came up with no results related to vegans or vegetarians.

>mfw vegans lie or misinform about veganism and its followers to make it seem like going vegan makes sense
>mfw vegans are just like JSW's

If society collapses and you are forced to live in nature, please tell me how you will be eating vegan and not eating mostly animal products.

>tennis
Plus women games are on average over an hour shorter.

Plus venus is a shitty player compared to her meat eating sister serena. Maybe if she started eating meat, she would win a few more titles.

haha holy shit i was thinking the exact same

>It's possible because our ancestors made us evolve this way due to survival
>but absolutely not natural.
Holy shit pls tell me all vegans aren't this retarded.

>I can easily digest chicken breast
>I can't easily digest grass
>not natural omnivores

We kill to survive, be an animal or a plant, if you want to discuss how they are treated thats fine, but you cant say that immoral to kill another being to survive and say that you cant eat as much greens as you like

Because all the Vegans fags ruined it. If they didn't act like jehova's witnesses, maybe I would.

yeah they dont run around just kinda trash violently with their wings and legs

Thank you walking bird of gains

Thanking walking bird of gains

murdering plants is unethical.

I found out that the girl I'm dating is vegan after asking. Saw her order, a vegan burger at a burger place, then another day she had a veggie dish but left out the bread.

She has no issues with me eating 70% of my food as meat. Hell, when we went out to dinner I had a 300g burger and second time I had a 400g steak.

And it's not the plain retarded kind of veganism. Eggs from your own or a friends free range chickens is fine. And her and her friends seriously don't mind others not eating vegan.

Gryllz being anal about food is a turn om anyway.

nice shitbump

Because 1) Humans are proven to be omnivores
>inb4 muh teeth and digestion
If we weren't omnivores, we would get sick from eating non-plants, we don't. It's that simple. Try force feeding meat to an herbivore or non-meat to a carnivore, watch what happens.

2.) Animals are not self aware creatures, every single test of self awareness, they have failed. They do not have a concept of them vs everything else, they don't think about anything, they are the mental equivalent of robots, the only difference is that they are made out of skin and meat rather than metal and silicon.

Only a handful of animals other than humans have proven to be self aware, and even then they are the mental equivalent of a 4 year old or something.

So that's why I don't feel bad about eating animals or using them to make their byproducts and then eating those. As long as you kill them instantaneously (because they can feel pain), then there is nothing morally wrong with it.

It's a saying tripcuck