He doesn't do Keto

Good to hear brother. Keto is a way of life.

And grass fed beef ISN'T unhealthy and there are plenty of articles and research proving it's healthy.

BTW. I lost 15lbs on Keto and my BP and Squat went up

so since your food consists of proteins, fats and carbs, and you cut out the carbs, is keto diet nothing but fats and proteins?

bc i train for strength

you can have up to like 20 grams of carbs a day at most. It causes your body to go into ketosis, where your body starts burning fat because there are no carbs to burn.

Keto has been used medically for specific issues like epilepsy, but it is only supposed to be temporary because it will give you heart disease. Ketofags are just as bad as Paleofags

Just had a series of blood tests and everything was good, except for my blood sugar that was still a little high. I lowered it 100 points by switching to a keto diet. My doc said, "whatever your doing...keep it up." My dad is currently taking metformin and 2 insulin shots a day. I don't want to end up like him.

ah yes, i know the trick to being healthy, avoid vegetables

Let's get into it, shall we?

>Total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol are only weakly associated with cardiovascular disease (low spearman's rho)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12891189
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0002914991900078
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8831910

>Low HDL cholesterol is strongly associated with cardiovascular disease (high spearman's rho)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18061058
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23973693

Attached image shows that total HDL cholesterol went up on Very Low Carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet, whereas it remained roughly the same for a Low Fat Diet.

Alright, stuff like fruits and veggies help prevent diabetes, and keto causes heart disease, so instead of just eating more of those you are on a diet that will kill you. I'd rather have diabetes desu senpai

No one in my family has ever had heart disease, so i'm not too concerned about that. The high blood sugar is much more important to control.
Heart disease is not directly associated with Keto anyway...that is a misconception.

>>Total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol are only weakly associated with cardiovascular disease (low spearman's rho)
Lifetime exposure to high LDL is what counts.

bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g3047
circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/16/1832.full

Studies that use lipids in a cross-sectional manner are low quality and often misleading for this reason.

Total cholesterol has an association with high enough N.

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021915016300910

>>Low HDL cholesterol is strongly associated with cardiovascular disease (high spearman's rho)
Not after adjusting for atherogenic lipoproteins.

atvb.ahajournals.org/content/36/5/777.long

Do some research on HDL Milano.

I can't read the last link, by the way, if you can be fucked to find another source; however, doesn't keto still classify as healthy by your first statement?
>Lifetime exposure to high LDL is what counts.
Ketogenic diets show decrease in LDL cholesterol.

Scratch that, I'm in. Going to go read it.

You know how I know you're Vegan?

Basically anything that lowers LDL will be good unless there are significantly malicious off-target effects. However, the likely reason for LDL lowering on these diets is down to weight loss.

I wonder how many years have been wasted by noobs taking shit advice from trolls on /fit.

The lifetime exposure to high LDL expresses that these are due to large sized LDL particles and that if we can make advances in reducing the size of the particles we can, with a great deal of certainty, start reducing the amount of deaths from cardiovascular disease. The correlation with heart disease at an old age was linked with an excessive timespan living with these large LDL particles.

Which is further backed by these articles:
>Particle size: the key to the atherogenic lipoprotein?
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7859047
>Association of Small Low-Density Lipoprotein Particles With the Incidence of Coronary Artery Disease in Men and Women
jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=407945
>A prospective, population-based study of low density lipoprotein particle size as a risk factor for ischemic heart disease in men.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11521128

So, how do we decrease particle size?
>Ratio of Triglycerides to HDL Cholesterol
Is an Indicator of LDL Particle Size in
Patients With Type 2 Diabetes and
Normal HDL Cholesterol Levels
care.diabetesjournals.org/content/23/11/1679.full.pdf
>Ratio of Triglycerides to HDL Cholesterol
Is an Indicator of LDL Particle Size in
Patients With Type 2 Diabetes and
Normal HDL Cholesterol Levels
jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jat/10/3/10_3_186/_pdf

So, there's no actual link to keto within these; it seems like lowering LDL size is overall the way to go, even moreso than HDL. However, keto (in the picture I posted above) is linked with smaller LDL particles and with a better ratio between TG and HDL, so it might not be too far out of the realm of reasoning to assume that a ketogenic diet would still result in the same result, regardless of how it gets there: lower risk for cardiovascular disease.

Thanks for engaging me, I'm learning a lot. If you have any dissenting opinions, let 'em rip.

Sorry, the last link is actually titled:
>Assessment of LDL Particle Size by Triglyceride/HDL-Cholesterol Ratio in Non-diabetic, Healthy Subjects without Prominent Hyperlipidemia

You think blood pressure is the only measure of cardiovascular health?

I see your keto and raise you cookie dough.

>circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/16/1832.full

Not the user, nor keto, nor do I really understand what I'm reading in that link.

But does that mean it is an apolipoprotein B test the most accurate? Or is a standard lipid profile still decent?

IIRC my LDLs were 1.9mmol/l last check up, but I have been doing that eat stop eat thing were you fast for 24 hours once or twice a week.

Large LDLs may be slightly less atherogenic than small LDLs (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2663974/figure/F1/), but that doesn't make them benign.

clinchem.org/content/52/9/1643.long
>Because evidence clearly indicates that all Apo B–containing particles are atherogenic(8), this reasoning is akin to the argument that an Uzi submachine gun is more deadly than an M16 or an AK47.
>Subclass studies have proliferated over the last few years, but many of these studies were funded or subsidized either by suppliers of the assays as a method to expand their use and move them into mainstream practice, or by pharmaceutical companies in an attempt to claim some advantage over other therapeutic agents

As an example familial hypercholesterolemics have exclusively "large" and "fluffy" LDLs yet still suffer from a huge increase in CVD events.

The presence of small LDLs are probably acting as a surrogate for (pre)diabetes. Hepatic insulin resistance increases LDL particle number (insulin normally acts to suppress VLDL synthesis), and once you control for that, the association goes away

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021915006002590

(Pre)diabetes can certainly accelerate atherosclerosis via a variety of mechanisms.

atvb.ahajournals.org/content/34/4/705.full.pdf
eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/21/2224

And weight loss will certainly help.

They both have their uses. If you have the beetus, apoB is probably a good target for therapy.

But if you have a remnant pathology, apoB can be low yet atherosclerosis can be significant: chylomicron remnants have an infiltration rate 10x less than LDLs but contain 40x more cholesterol and efflux 20x lower. So they are (relatively speaking) a much bigger burden on the arterial wall.

circres.ahajournals.org/content/118/4/547.full

Oh, and I should mention. ApoB can disagree with some other, more expensive ways of measuring particle count in beetus. ApoB contained in small dense lipoproteins fucks up the binding to the apoB antibody so the test might underreport them

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1933287414004048

I'm in a cut right now is it wise to start? Are carbs mostly fiber on this diet? I'm imagining it's mostly spam corned beef and steak

>marked by high triglycerides
My trigs were pretty low, although I can't remember what they were exactly. My HDL wasn't that impressive though but from what another user said earlier it doesn't seem like that is a big issue.

So trigs if can be used as an estimate for chylomicron remnants, it's basically keep LDL and trigs on the lower end of the range?

I'm probably going to keep doing this eat stop eat thing forever then.

I'm on a cut is it a good idea to start keto? Are carbs usually fiber?

Non-HDL non-LDL cholesterol can be important, too Among other things like Lp(a). :)

I would try to follow the recommendations put out in the ESC guidelines. Then consult with a doctor and maybe a lipidologist as it's nearly impossible to accurately assess your situation over an infantile cartoon image sharing forum.

They said I was fine, so I'll just go by that. Probably going to get another check up in a year or so, I'm sure I'll make it. Int the meantime I'll try and find my report and check out that ESC thing.

Thanks though.

>healthiest, primal, and natural

The diet is so unhealthy that it literally causes you to expel acetone from your lungs, primal is the biggest buzzword of the 21st century, and the only place a diet like that could ever be considered natural is in the arctic since you simply don't find foods with that high a proportion of fat anywhere else, and even then Inuit don't live in ketosis either

You can actually develop diabetes from a ketogenic diet due to how high in fat it is. The reason obesity causes diabetes is because obese people have a lot of free fatty acids in their bloodstream that cause skeletal muscle insulin resistance. People on very high fat diets are metabolically identical to obese people when it comes to FFAs, and if you search around on keto websites you'll see people excuse low-carb induced diabetes as a normal thing that's supposed to happen, calling it "physiological insulin resistance"

>Ketogenic diets show decrease in LDL cholesterol.

It's a temporary decrease that's entirely dependent on weight loss. Weight loss itself lowers LDL. On the other hand, LDL count is a biomarker, it's not a hard measurement like plaque volume. You can still fuck your arteries even while your LDL lowers or stays the same, just like smoking or high blood pressure contribute to heart disease without raising LDL.

nutritionfacts.org/video/low-carb-diets-and-coronary-blood-flow/

>The diet is so unhealthy that it literally causes you to expel acetone from your lungs

What's so unhealthy about exploding?

All fiber is carbs user.

You can't digest fiber though, so it's always free.

Aren't super obese people gonna have improved health markers no matter what if they lose weight? I mean someone that weighed like 400 americlonks and losing 200 of them and then saying "look how much healthier I am, ultra high sat fats are fine!" Isn't necessarily true. Has anyone of a healthy weight done it and gotten bloods done?

You can eat all of the non-starchy vegetables you want

I dont have epilepsy. Do you have epilepsy OP?

Bacteria digest it into short chain fatty acids which are used by intestinal cells for gluconeogenesis.

A keto diet isn't exactly conducive to gut health though.

I am not doing keto but I am having a very high protein diet. I am curious, will I go into ketosis if I have fruit in the morning? How long does it take to go into ketosis. I have 1 cup of rice once or twice a week when I cook some Asian foods (curries or adobo) how will this effect going in and out of ketosis?

Also do you guys find it hard to get enough calories in a day? Without grains I feel like I am eating a mountain of meat and veggies but still only eating about 1,200 calories. I typically make meals of 225g of chicken and veggies but that only comes up to about 300-350 calories.

>fat is bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dat momscience

>saturated fat is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dat broscience

fifty grams a day, net

Which means the fiber comes out of that amount. So throw 3 tablespoons of brown rice in the rice cooker and you'll have plenty of both.

>3 tablespoons of rice is plenty of fiber

Educate yourself before you wreck yourself

>He doesn't do cocksucking
>He doesn't want to be everybodies fucktoy
>He doesn't want to shut up
>He wants to increase his chances to die kissless virgin by
lifting and eating dead smelly ocean fish

Why aren't you whoring your sphincter on cl yet?

>educate yourself with misinformation

Bitch please, your carbosis needs treatment before you start hurting yourself

Every thing in that picture looks like normal things most people eat.

I don't do keto because I think it's stupid. I can eat healthily enough without practically eliminating an entire macroneutrient.

It's practically the crossfit of food. Lot's of people doing it, very few doing it right.

Keto IF will get u amazing lean gains, strenght ANd make u lose fast aswell.

for carbs
spinach,cucumber ,zucchini, kale , broccoli, cauliflower, aubergine, bell peppers, any mushroom and ANY lowstarch vegetable and leafy greens.

for fat
Coconut oil, olive oil, avocado, butter, whole fat milk and yoghurt, fatty fish and meats.

protons are simple
steak salmon eggs chicken turkey cottage cheese yoghurt Ppowder

if you do it right its the goat

its not. most people (in america) have a diet with less than 10% of that premium stuff. We use alot of corn and flour. A lot.

Yes keto is the fastest way to lose fat for most people. But if you don't reverse diet out you'll be fucked over by carb sensitivity.

>But if you don't reverse diet out you'll be fucked over by carb sensitivity.
Can you explain pls

What do you have in coffee and tea, also i cant eat quark at all ?

>Diet created almost 40 years ago
>meme

sure thing femily

>You can actually develop diabetes from a ketogenic diet due to how high in fat it is

sure thing. i guess i can go back to eating donuts and candy now and never have diabetes. Thanks.

Did you know that just by walking down the street somebody can come up behind you and shoot you in the head?
Don't go outside if you want to live

Every time I try keto I can't sleep for shit, get lightheaded and it feels like I'm dying of heart failure. It takes like a month to recover.

Donuts are full of fat fucktard. A high carb low fat diet will never give you diabetes. It's when too much fat is added to a meal that if fucks your glycemic response and like other user said, ffas raise.

>memes only came into existence with the creation of Veeky Forums

>paleofags
Explain what exactly you are missing out on a paleo diet,esp if you include some quality raw aged cheeses that lack lactose. You could literally eat veggies with a side of meat and a bit of fruit everyday . Cereals(grains) are poor people food, they are a COMMODITY on the world market that is easy to consume,store and access. IT was insanely important bc it helped humanity(esp the europeans) get through some tough times but it's not needed in a daily diet.
Yes fake gluten intolerance is annoying,I'll give you that.

i drink my coffee black, how it should it drank

quark is dairy so no

Keto cured my Crohn's disease. Would take heart disease over shitting my guts out and needing artificial ass surgery any day desu.

Enjoy your inflammation and amputations.

Which one will give out first, your liver or your kidneys?

Look at this epic bro science weirdo. Beetus develops from high blood sugar. Your liver turns sugar into body fat, retard.

What is Google?

Get some potassium from bone broth, it ain't fucking rocket science.

Sure, that's why beetus is called "having the sugar" in many languages. Retard or Coca Cola shill?

Never been interested in it. I think that fad diets like keto or atkins work for people because before going on one of these they've never monitored anything they put in their gullet. Of course closely watching what you eat is going to give results. The fact of the matter is that fat is a suboptimal fuel for the body, it can run on it but it isn't preferred for a reason.

Enjoy dying from your vitamin A OD

>>He doesn't do Keto
Meme
>>He doesn't want to be on the healthiest,
Wrong
>most primal and natural diet
Appeal to tradition and appeal to nature fallacies
>>He doesn't want to live a long healthy life with rock hard gains
I do and keto has nothing to do with it
>>He wants to increase his chances of diabetes by consuming sugars and carbs
no keto ≠ sugar
Grains and beans for life
Also, enjoy your atherosclerosis and heart disease and cholesterol
Ib4 gluten meme
>Why aren't you on the Keto diet yet?
See above, also
I like eating different foods every day
I'm not a faggot
I don't fall for memes

Don't eat, because it is deadly. Science has noticed, that people that eat will die sooner or later due to multiple reasons and circumstances.

/thread

Hey OP, please, please, please start a thread when you finally got that heart attack

>try keto
>feel disgusting
>still feel like shit post- adaptation
>can't stay hydrated for shit
>get urethritis from it
>IBS from the fat cuz no gallbladder
Been trying a Vegetarian diet, shit actually isn't half bad, I miss my chicken and fish though, might go Pescetarian

I have been doing keto for months now, shedded fat and built some muscle, I know other people who have done the same and other people who really had no effects from it or reacted negatively.

Try it, if it works for you then good if not then find something that does.