Greyskull LP

OP here. I really like the Lat Raises, Rows (probably just gonna do one arm at a time rather than barbell), and weighted chinups/pullups. Not a big fan of curls though, I feel like I get plenty of bicep hypertrophy through compounds, but maybe that's just because I'm a beginner. Thoughts?

Pic unrelated

ISHYGDDT

Routine is shit and will fuck your shoulders with imbalances if you do chins and will fuck them slightly slower if you do horizontal rows on A and C.

You cannot replace a row or chinup with deadlifts. You cannot do 12 sets of bench press and 6 sets of (in a best case scenario) horizontal barbell rows. If you do chins on this program you're not even training your rear delts and mid back directly, so you'll have a whole host of posture problems to go with your shoulder impingement.

Do PHUL or Lyle Mcdonald's bulking routine or candito LP with all the isolations he suggests.

This one will leave you with weaker medial delts but stronger rear delts and won't give you shoulder problems as fast as the other one. You cannot replace rows/chins with a deadlift on day B and if you think you can then you're a retard. I'd wager trappy wrote the routine in the OP pic because he recommends supinating curls and close grip bench to everyone for no fucking reason other than personal preference, although it could have been any of the faggots who post in those shit generals.

To be fair, I've heard NOTHING but good things about Greyskull LP. It was one of the most recommended starter routines in /aesthetic/ general. There might be better routines and I have an open mind, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this.

How do you get the idea that i'm doing 12 sets of bench or 6 sets of Horizontal rows? It's just two working sets then one set to failure.

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do since I got bored of SS. Maybe I'll continue doing it, but include tricep and bicep exercises. Any good routines like that?

Per training cycle (1 week) is what I meant.

And by bench press I just mean internal rotation pushing movements. The original greyskull looks very different to what you're looking at in the OP. You wanna read the book and balance the routine for yourself. These are just routines written by retards loosely following the greyskull format. Phrak's is balanced in the sense that you do one horizontal pull per horizontal push set and one vertical pull per vertical push set, so it's okay but most good coaches (i.e. not random retards on Veeky Forums or reddit) will tell you that you need to do 2:1 pull:push or better. Plus big lats help you bench more and you don't need to do a lot of sets on bench when training for strength.

so neither of these greyskulls are any good? I am looking for something after running SL5x5 for 8 months, but can only commit 3 days a week.

>taking advice from a literal retard

Fucking newfags.

it could literally be any terminal based text editor you little fucking memer. no reason to intentionally pick the shittiest one

brah what do you think of mien

>most good coaches (i.e. not random retards on Veeky Forums or reddit) will tell you that you need to do 2:1 pull:push or better

Is Sheiko not a good coach?

OP here

Ah, I see what you mean. I've skimmed through a digital copy of the book that I've had, and while I plan on giving it a thorough read, it's fairly long and I was hoping I could get at least a framework for a routine that I could use before I finish with the book.

I was hoping I could find some good plugins, I assumed that the pic I put in the OP was just a set of plugins, but it sounds like I was mistaken.

If you have better advice that would be great.

its not very long man, it took me like 2 hrs to read

>If you have better advice that would be great.

How about not listening to retards who post stupid shit as anonymous?
I could literally be telling you that you should only do reverse grip bench because normal bench will fuck your shoulders and you would believe it.

If you want good advice go ask trappy-chan on the routine thread or one of the trips on /plg/
Don't take advice from anonymous posters, ESPECIALLY IF THEY MENTION IMBALANCE.

Oh yeah, I know I can burn through it, but not only did I only get the copy I have today, I'm also under the impression that a lot of the plug-ins are personal preference. Since I'm new I don't have a lot of personal preference and would much rather go with something that other, more knowledgeable people prefer.

>more knowledgeable people

Reminder that you're talking to anonymous in a community where the vast majority doesn't lift, and those who do haven't been lifting for more than 3 months.

I have asked for advice on good Greyskull plugins in three seperate threads with no response, hence why I made my own. You also have to realize that it's hard to know what is shitty advice when it's all new information to you.

>I'm a retard because I'm telling people to follow a routine written by Johnny Candito or Lyle McDonald over some retard called phrak who posts on reddit and a trap who shitposts pictures of klokov in /owg/.

Neck harness is nice but you can skip it if you want to save time. Not many people do it anyway. Add 3 sets of your favourite rowing variation to every day after the lower body movement. Don't do weighted dips as a primary movement. Do unweighted dips and super set them with something like chins or face pulls as an accessory, you're not training dips for strength, there's no reason to have them in place of bench unless you're out of the ordinary and for whatever reason they suit you better than bench.

I haven't read the program so I can't comment, I assume accessories aren't included in spreadsheets because they usually aren't. Either way this isn't something a noob follows by the book, this is a way for advanced lifters to program their bench along with their normal work.

I could tell you anything that trappy could tell you. I'll gladly write you a program right now which you can show to him and then you can come back to me and tell me I give bad advice if you want.

>most good coaches (i.e. not random retards on Veeky Forums or reddit) will tell you that you need to do 2:1 pull:push or better
it's time to kill yourself and/or stop offering advice forever

>I'm a retard because I'm telling people to follow a routine written by Johnny Candito or Lyle McDonald over some retard called phrak who posts on reddit and a trap who shitposts pictures of klokov in /owg/.

You are a retard because you don't know shit. Trappy is an experienced coach and has shown a lot of fucking knowledge. Even people like boardshorts and norsefat have taken advice from Trappy.

>I assume accessories aren't included in spreadsheets because they usually aren't.

They are. You're just stupid and fell for the pull needs to be meme:ratio meme.

No thanks I don't want a shitty program written by mount stupid, the poster.

>I'll gladly write you a program right now

Or could you just give me some plugins to the base greyskull routine? Sweet baby jesus I just want to go to the gym but people started shit talking each other instead of talking about good plugins.

LITERALLY THE PICTURE IN THE OP.

NOW FUCK OFF.

i like neck harness because im tryna get rid of my pencil neck, thanks breh

no

fuck off trappy

Trappy gives mediocre advice to beginners. No coach can give good, personally tailored advice to someone over the internet just by knowing their lifts. Trappy points people with strength goals towards strength programs and says "here's a program written by a strength coach, you say your goal is strength so follow it". There's no knowledge involved in that. I don't like Trappy because he gets in people's way and tries to convince them that their goals aren't valid or they won't stick to them. Numbers still go up when focusing on aesthetics, just slightly slower.

Sure, just add facepulls and lateral raises for shoulder work on top of a primary pulling movement of your choice and you're good to go. I'd side with candito and tell you to do bent over DB rows. Do your shoulder work in the 8-12 rep range and do your rows in the 2x5, 1x5+ range as per the program.

Please refer back to this picture

So with that plugged in your greyskull program would look something like this, doing dips on OHP day and lateral raises on bench day:

AxBxAxx, AxBxAxx

A:
Bench/OHP
DB Row
Squat
Lateral Raises/Dips 2-3x8-12
Curls 2-3x8-12

B:
Bench/OHP
Chins
DL
Lateral Raises/Dips 2-3x8-12
Face Pulls 2-3x8-12

You've addressed nothing but the push:pull ratio which is the only memey thing I've said but I like it as a guideline for beginners so go fuck yourself famalam.

>talks about himself in 3rd person

Truly embarrassing tbqh.
Put your trip back on, so you can be auto-filtered.

Hey can you fix my program? You said it was written by a mediocre coach because it doesn't have 2:1 ration for push/pull.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xmp6rSrZbCJpS9dNg8FqRQm2f7-34m2OxtsKt8346tw/edit?usp=sharing

Also you said chin-ups don't work rear delts, but every website or book on biomechanics says you're wrong. But I know you're not wrong because you posted this So can you please write me about the biomechanics of chin-ups? Your knowledge would be much appreciated.

Cheers, brother. Really appreciate it.

so should i strictly rest on x days or can I swim for a good hour on those days?

Are you seriously sitting here telling me to recommend sheiko's bench programs to an almost complete beginner? If you're already on sheiko's program you're a big boy who knows what they're doing. I addressed this like twice now.

And no, chin ups will not work your rear delts sufficiently. Go do some facepulls or reverse flies right after chin ups and you'll be pretty much fresh.

Cardio on rest days is almost always a good thing on a program like this.

>If you're already on sheiko's program you're a big boy who knows what they're doing

Sheiko has beginner programs and it follows the same push:pull ratio.

>chin ups will not work your rear delts sufficiently

And OHP will not work your front delts sufficiently, right? Amazing, where can I pay you for coaching?

Also thanks for the tips on growing my lats in order to help my bench, but apparently trappy and this dyel here strengtheory.com/lats-bench-press-much-ado-little/ disagree with you.

Can you post a SINGLE SCIENTIFIC SOURCE for ANY OF THE BULLSHIT you're saying? (pro tip you can't)

I've only ever seen one guy at my gym actually do dips. This guy comes in at the exact same time every morning, already in his "workout gear" and runners (lmao). He will do a few normal exercises like squats and bench presses, but then at the end, WITHOUT FAIL, he will round it off with dips. It's become a running joke among me and the other regulars. "Hey man, keep at it, don't want a DIP in your progress", we'll say to him, or "what's up dude, yesterday I DIPPED my fries in ketchup". He has NO IDEA we're making fun of him, it's hilarious. We call him the little dipper behind his back.

Newfriend here. Are dips really that bad? I've seen them in a ton of routines.

As expected, mount stupid has no scientific sources for any of the bro science he pulls off his ass.

Did you just reply to yourself? I don't need a scientific study to tell you that if you don't train your back it won't grow.

From your own source:
>as a general injury prevention measure (similar to training the hamstrings to prevent knee injuries if you have strong quads; having strong pecs without strong lats may increase your risk of shoulder injury, the thinking goes). I certainly think that’s good advice.

I don't give a fuck about powerlifting and I don't care to learn about it or do my research on it. I don't care if you want to side with whatever dyel wrote your article or some dyel called Jim Wendler on whether or not big lats help your bench. All I'm saying is that there are better ways to work your rear delts than just chins and it's dumb to injure yourself as a novice, please fuck off, you're cherrypicking from all the things I've said and making retarded interpretations to prove yourself right.

You say chins don't work your rear delts, but this SCIENTIFIC STUDY seems to disagree with you ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2644775/

And cuckols saying working your back is good (funny, trappy's program seems to include back exercises) does not equal to him saying you MUST do 2:1 pull:push ration. That's stupid. Look into the programs made by cuckols himself and you'll see.

You're literally mount stupid bro scientist.

Why are you linking research about bodybuilding? Not a single successful bodybuilder has ever gotten where they are by readings studies. The only thing science is good for when it comes to bodybuilding is nutrition. If I can do chins and then hit rear delts with flies or facepulls with my usual weight, I'm not gonna not hit my rear delts just because some study said I shouldn't be able to. When you can find a study that correlates chin ups with rear delt hypertrophy in at least intermediate lifters, attains conclusive results determining causation at a 95% significance level and then compares this with equally conclusive results from other pull up, fly, row etc variations then I'll change my mind.

Your study as of now proves nothing other than "rear delts activate at least a bit in chin ups", which everyone already knew.

Getting meme'd son

>study shows rear delts are stronger than front delts when comparing shoulder extension to flexion
>rear delts are literally stronger when doing chins than the front delts when doing overhead presses

>anonymous broscientist says the study is meaningless because it's science
>says chins don't really use rear delts much because he says so
>and he's really knowledgeable as seen from his previous posts

Honestly I'd just never post advice ever again if I were you. You have zero clue about any of the stuff you are giving advice on.

So according to you, the main muscle worked by chin ups is the rear deltoid to a greater extent than the front delt is worked in an overhead press.

And you say that the things I post discredit me, and you keep repeating mount stupid like it's not a meme.

My friend, have you ever considered that you are the one who is mount stupid?

Anyway, just because I know how my shoulders feel when I actually lift weights, which you seem to not, I did some googling for you and according to this thing on average facepulls make the rear delts contract 5 times more than a bodyweight chin and chins make the rear delt contract about as much as they do the front delt.

t-nation.com/training/inside-the-muscles-best-shoulders-and-trap-exercises

But I mean, you're the retard who thinks just because the rear delt is in an advantageous position it'll contract more during a chin up when elementary logic dictates that if a muscle is in a better position to lift a weight it doesn't have to work as hard, meaning exactly what I've been saying for like 30 minutes: chin ups don't train rear delts as much as other pulling movements. The study you linked suggests that, the study done here suggests that, ancedotal evidence suggests it, you literally have nothing going for you. You were mount stupid all along.

Is this really a bad program to run? New and was just starting it, except I replaced lat raises with upright rows as the lat raises really hurt my shoulders.

obsessing over details when ur just starting is just pointless

ss, sl, greyskull are all so fucking similar it's literally just idiots sperging out over whatevers 'optimal' when the actual answer is 'everyones body is slightly different and the best routine wont technically be some cookie cutter meme image but theyre close enough so who the fuck cares'