Tfw you fell for the PPLxPPL meme and made literally no gains in the last year because of it

PxPxLxx

STARTING STRENGTH
now read the sticky you asshole

I have been doing PPLPPLx for the past year and have made great gains. Focus on strength one session of ppl then train for mass the other. Be consistent.

Get on steroids if you feel that way.

As a natural your 2 best options are 3/day week full body routine with 3x frequency, or a 4/day week Upper/Lower with 2x frequency.

Anymore days than that is pointless for a natural.

Anyone who disagrees with me is an ignorant idiot who shouldn't be giving out advice on here.

SS makes you t-rex because you're training legs twice as much as everything else. Well, no shit that's what will happen. What's stopping someone from modifying it so they work the whole body evenly?

Also realize you are fucking natty (assuming you are) and that this shit takes time. Eat right, sleep right, and actually put work in the gym and maybe you will see progress kid

texas method

Anyone who lifts 6 days a week on PPLxPPL is an idiot who fell for the lie the fake-natties spread on YouTube.

PPLxPPL or PPLxUL is the most popular routine in the YouTube Fake Natty world.

Funny to see you stupid children eat it up.

>HEY GUYS I MADE ALL THESE SUPER HUMAN GAINS BECAUSE I STOPPED DOING A TYPICAL BRO-SPLIT AND STARTED DOING PUSH PULL LEGS
>ITS MAGIC BRAHs!!!!!!!

idiots.

GreySkull LP

I do pplpplx and it has worked wonders i was able to surpass on all my lifts and make great gains.

It tires the fuck out of me and im going to split it so i can include cardio and hiit.

I am sorry, not taking anything away from your progress.

But it's just bullshit that you made more strength gains on a PPL than you did on a Full Body or Upper/Lower.

The only way this is possible is if you were really weak when starting your PPL. Other than that it's bullshit.

Sorry, don't know why I am even apologizing.

Cry all you want but it's true. Because of ppl i was able to improve my bench and ohp immensely and my diddys and squat made strong gains.

It doesn't count if you were weak to begin with lol.

You didn't take your squat from like 315 to 385 on a PPL. You probably took your squat from 180 to 225 or something and now just stalled the fuck out.

Ive done bulgarian method for 5 years now. First year i made great progress. Second year i only got like 20 pounds on my squat after a year...

3rd year i went up by 40 pounds on ever lift. 4th year nothing my deadlift max even dropped

5th year again great progress 20 pounds here 15 there. Deadlift went up 60 pounds.

Gains can be pretty unpredictable so just keep pushing forward and dont sweat the bad times.

P.S never do bulgarian method

mate you can do your average bro split and make gains but you need to put in the effort and actually try

This is only true in a few scenarios.

1) You're new to lifting
2) You have insane genetics

Bro-splits don't do shit for someone with average genetics who has all their noob gains already.

I was at 335 squat before ppl im at 385 now

315 diddy 405 now.

Cry all you want. Just because you dont have the discipline to do pplpplx doesn't mean it doesnt work.

Facts

M8, you're only lying to yourself here.

One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted all that time on a shitty routine.

What program are you running?

> lifting 6 days a week as a natty

lol

I bulk on Upper/Lower 4 days a week and cut on Full-Body 3 days a week.

I've been lifting 5 years and this is the best method of training.

I've done PPLxPPL, I've done bro-splits, I've done all the fucking routines you'll ever hear about, they're all dog shit besides Upper/Lower and Full-Body.

PPLxPPx

I know right.

The sad thing is nobody is going to take us seriously.

You can't beat a bunch of fake-natties spreading the lies bro, these DYELS will eat it all up.

They've been told their whole life that the more effort they put into things the more they'll get out of it.

Little do they know it simply just doesn't work like that in lifting as a natural.

They refuse to accept natural limitations and diminishing returns.

They think 15 sets for a muscle group is required when as a natty you already hit your cap of diminished returns in the 3-5 set range.

Any recommendations on where I can find a good set Upper/lower program? For both strength and mass, with the end goal being mass.

Cry all you want brother. You just lack disciprin

>3x frequency
>2x frequency

What do you mean by this?

Just let them be, they'll find out the hard way. They won't bang their heads against the wall forever haha.

Isn't it good for a shock program? At least someone wants to increase their squat from 225 to 315 then run a normal program?

There's lots of different Upper/Lower routines out there.

5-3-1 is good, Canditos U/L is good, just search for U/L routines, you wont have any trouble finding them.

3 x frequency = hitting all body-parts 3 times a week
2 x frequency = hitting all body-parts 2 times a week

Push/Pull or Upper/Lower ABxABxx

What is a good program typically for mass or strength then?

Is PPLxPPL really that bad?
What if I do PLxPLxx?
Is there a way I can do 5 days?

I don't really get how that's less work than a PPL. PPL hits each area twice a week. Unless I'm misreading you you're claiming PPLxPPL is too much but hittings things 3 times instead is just dandy.

Post pic faggot

This. 3 days a week of real hard work on a decent routine that's tailored to your goals is the true natty way. Anything else is newb gains or roid gains.

t. 4 year natty lifter who knows what it is to stall and how to get out of it

When I did PPLPPLx I struggled to make lower body gains, but I broke plateaus in my OHP and Bench. I was also alot leaner too. Everyone is different, everyone will respond differently to a program.

Full body 3 times a week

Monday - Wednesday - Friday. That's 4 days of recovery time.

PPLxPPL is 1 day of recovery time.

You think you're going to grow long-term effectively on 1 day of recovery vs 4 days?

Even an Upper/Lower (which also has 2 x frequency ) has 3 days of recovery every week.

People are fucking stupid by lifting NATURALLY and only having 1 day off recovery every week.

Each muscle gets at least a few days break though I'm not using my bicep during leg day. I also just take one day a week or so to sleep like 12 or 14 hours, usually sunday, fuck sunday.

If it doesn't work for you that's fine, if I hit a wall I'll bring it back a bit, but I'm happy with it so far.

m8 PPLxPPL is 2 days of recovery between each muscle group.

Wouldn't a PPLxPPx routine work?
First PPL being for strength , then the other PP for hypertrophy? 2 sets each session? Thats two rest days a week and low volume

So I'm supposed to do all 5 compounds in one gym session? Isn't that fucking exhausting?

2 sets an exercise*

Strength or size?
Natty or enhanced?
What are your working sets now?

It's not just that the muscles aren't being worked again. It's that your body only has so much recovery potential. If its constantly taxed and drained you won't be recovering fully unless you sleep 12 hours a day.

I've been on PPL for only 5 weeks now and, while already making visible gains, I see where all the nay-sayers are coming from.

It's incredibly taxing on the body (and mind) and I'm already in a state of overtraining and barely recover. I don't think I can do this longterm, so I'll take a closer look at other routines suggested here.

t. actual natty lifter

I do 8-10 a day and then my big 12-14 on sunday. Any lingering soreness or weakness I have gets blasted on that big rest day.

to all the people saying a 6 day PPL split is BS...

what about full body 3x week? basically the same thing, right?

i've been doing a 6 day/week U/L split for at least a month now. been having a lot of shitty injuries, but as far as the mind thing goes... i just want to go more the more i go. rest days are the worst.

welp, i'm in a wrist cast now and have to take a week off upper body. i hate this. but i can still do legs.

lol

Yeah I didn't say people can't make gains on PPLxPPL, but the gains are going to be HORRIBLE in the long-term compared to a Upper/Lower 4 days a week or Full Body 3 days a week.

Now imagine doing what your doing now for the next X years.

Good luck with that!

Out of curiosity, do you have any research in your corner with this? And I don't mean some youtuber, ideally some peer reviewed studies.

Actually what i'm doing is going to be fine because i'm gonna be enjoying my short term life with /fraud in a year. So ppl will be just fine

If you're going /fraud/ then ignore this thread, this thread is highly valuable for natties though.

>bench stalling on PPLxPPL but bench was always my weakest lift anyway

Great research, stats, and pics to back up your claims. 10/10 post, everyone listen to this guy.

I've been using PPLxPPLx and i've made great strength/size gains. All of you guys saying its not good for recovery are just blabbering without realizing that people respond differently to programs. Just find what's good for you.

PPLxULx is ideal for natties, according to tested natty King Layne Norton (obviously not 100% natty because no pro is but as close as we can get).

Jeff Alberts (lifting like 30 years) Probably the only actual natty on youtube in 3DMJ. He does Upper/Lower even after 30 years lifting.

Training is important, routine isn't that important (with some minor exceptions, for example a routine that completely omits benching or ignores a muscle group will matter).
The two keys for training that will always result in gains are these :
1) Consistency. Not "never ever miss a workout", but stick to a routine and keep track of your numbers and always try and keep that trend line moving upward (progressive overload)
2) training intensity matters, you don't need to utilize failure as a training tool, but you should be pushing and ripping in every session, you should be tired when you finish your workout, you should break a sweat, breathe heavy, it should be hard.
If you make sure to keep both these things in mind and you will see good results (assuming your diet is proper as well).

hi, heres me

I have been lifting 1 year and made all my gains on PPL, I have made excellent progress and entirely disagree with this post.

Mirin stats and lifts?

>I have been lifting 1 year

Your opinion is irrelevant.

There's something very simple that can fix the biggest problems people usually have with PPL splits.

Instead of PPLPPLx just do PPLxPPLx etc.. That's literally it. Working out these muscle groups in such quick succession and continually trying to progress doesn't allow for enough recovery and you'll begin getting negative returns pretty quick.

posting me with shoe on head in advance to prove its me and that its legit.

If you arent making gains on a PPL routine your diet or effort is probably to blame.

A PPL routine allows for working each muscle 2x per week, same as when you lift with a Upper/Lower split

You don't get it brah. If you have done upper lower you would look like Piana by now.

I think making that progress in 1 year is acheivement enough that it validates the effectiveness of a PPL routine but thats up to the anons to decide

I dont max because I hurt my back and try to play it safe.

Bench: 175 3x10
Squat: 185 3x8
Deadlift: 265 3x6
OHP: 105 3x8 (my strongest lift right off the bat, no idea why)

So can someone outline what a 3 day spit or upper/lower would look like?

Basically, it comes down to genetics. Some people have good enough genetics that they can lift 6 times a week and recover adequately to make gains. Some people don't, and they will need to lift less frequently. Life isn't fair, you have to work with what you've got and figure out what works for you.

Look at your head and compare it to your body. You're small. You're decently lean, but that's about it. Your head is huge compared to your delts and chest, even your torso looks small compared to your head...

You have the body-type that someone would have who just lifts a lot but isn't strong at all and just eats a low calorie diet.

Just looking at a picture of him tells us fuck all about how much progress he made. If he started out as a severely underweight skeleton, then it's amazing progress. Some people look like that before they ever touch a weight because they have excellent genetics. If he is one of those people, then he obviously made terrible progress.

Most people don't want to look like a powerlifter desu. He's muscular and lean, that's the goal for most people.

Also, head size varies quite a bit from person to person so it's not a good indicator of a person's body size.

I was leaner and bigger than you at age 15.

Your SMALL bro, you can't weigh more than 150 soaking wet.

I know people who don't even lift, that just play sports, that are bigger/leaner than you.

PPL is a joke.

And your lifts are a joke.

RING A DING DING. skeleton from the start. far left for reference. This was me 2 or 3 years before I started lifting but I have no other photos for reference and I was literaly the same weight as in this photo when i started so I want to say its 100% accurate.

yep, goal was to look good and look good only. PPL acheived that goal :D

You look good. I am not denying that.

But you're very small for someone who lifts.

You realize that people have got bigger and leaner than you without lifting weights right? Like from body-weight routines.

>year of our lord 2016
>not PPLxUL

Shiggydiggy

m8 he's only been lifting for a year

>le 3pl8 ohp in sex months memexD

Here guys, do PPLxPPL if you want to weigh 150 pounds soaking wet and OHP 100lbs and eat 1,500 calories a day.

155 in that photo, only reason I wasnt bigger at 15 was cause fuckin your mom every day was taking up all my energy.

100% agree that I;m small, I just thought it was good progress for 1 year and wanted to argue taht PPL was viable

I dont know because ive never done anything else but yes my lifts blew up in the first 3 months.

You did PPLxPPL for 1 year and you still don't even have all your noob gains bro.

That alone says a lot about the routine.

If you did a proper routine (instead of just lifting every day and burning calories being weak as shit) you could big a lot bigger and stronger while being just as lean.

It's good progress, and none of the anti ppl people have shown up with any sort of research. Anecdotes don't really mean anything to me. If some dudes at a university didn't figure it out then it doesn't count for shit.

He gained a significant amount of mass, dumbfuck.

This is the type of logic you are using:

>person A gained 30 lbs in 1 year on routine A
>person B gained 20 lbs in 2 years on routine B
>given that person B is bigger than person A, we can infer that routine A is better than routine B.

You arrive at the wrong conclusion by ignoring the first two pieces of information, which are essential.

yup my heads fuckin huge lol, runs in the family.

Post ur hot bod channing tatum, I would argue taht I do have noob gains and that my lifts are all intermediate level, which is exactly where they should be at the 1 year mark.

exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.htm

for reference, the lifting standards, I reach intermediate for each lift based on my bodyweight. I am literaly exactly where a person at 1 year should be strength wise.

>1 year PPLxPPL
>still weak
>still not achieved noob gains

How is this supposed to endorse PPL? Because you have abs? WOAHHH BRO HE HAS ABS, ROUTINE MUST WORK!!!!!!!

lmao, this place is full of DYELs

WAIT. gotta be honest, not at the strenght level I should be at for squats. intermediate at my weight should be at 250 max and I'm barely pushing 200 so yep you've got a point for my quads, everything else checks out.

Whoops, I worded that incorrectly. Meant to say that you would infer that routine B is better than routine A.

He has 100lbs OHP and 2.5 deadlift after 1 year lifting 6 DAYS A WEEK.

There's no excuse for that.

You are a fucking retard who is clearly incapable of understanding basic logic.

YOU DO NOT KNOW IF HE HAS ACHIEVED HIS NOOB GAINS OR NOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT COMPARED HIS CURRENT STATS TO HIS STARTING STATS.

Why is this so difficult for you to get through your thick, dumb, mentally handicapped fucking skull? I'm done trying to explain it.