The Great Protein Fiasco

To get natty gains you wont find a more perfect naturally occurring product.

Be a dear and give us your expert analysis then

wait it sounds like protein deficiency was ruled out as a cause of that funky disease kwashiorkor or whatever and then they go on to take that as meaning that protein deficiency isn't real at all?

is it just me or is that fucking retarded.

also around the 4:30 mark it endorses the .8-.9 g/kg lean body mass meme.

what the fuck is the point of this video, it's just making fun of people in the past who thought we needed slightly more protein than we think we need now.

Except for meat and eggs

Nah m8, you're retarded for picking a fad lifestyle and then preaching it to others who want nothing to do with you till you're blue in the fucking face.

You literally chose a diet that requires supplements for the most part to keep you healthy and functioning, cite sources that are spouting complete bullshit and somehow you have the nerve to call other people stupid? A quick glance at the related content on youtube showed a bullshit video about how meat is bad for diabetics? Which is complete and utter bullshit and I've seen diabetics saying that a vegan/vegetarian diet offers them literally nothing more and requires them to be autism levels of strict about maintaining it, so yeah, fuck you and that shill of a doctor.

This guy is the vegan equivalent of that HAES bitch and you should feel bad for subscribing to such blatant shilling.

Your criticism is just

>I don't like this so it's all wrong

bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Protein intake is heavily researched, not up for debate.

You don't need a lot of protein if you are DYEL. People who lift need more protein.

Yeah but whatcha gonna drink with your steak and egg breakfast senpai? Make your beverage work for you that's whatcha cuz its swell to be swole

Mfw trying to spread eating disorders like a teenage grill group

WE GONN DRINK MILK SENPAI HELL YEAH

>related content on youtube

yea, you're retarded.

Well no shit average, shit eating, couch sitting Joe doesn't need to eat 200 g of prot daily. Those numbers apply only to athletes and people who do resistance training. 2 g of protein a day doesn't apply to a fucking nu 50 kg male who spends most of his day fighting privilege and browsing tumblr.

tldr; if you don't lift you dont need to eat 200 g prot because it doesn't make sense and that study is retarded

Why is everyone getting mad? What he's saying has some actual truth to it. A person who's just living day to day and doesn't do any heavy labor or athletic pursuit, doesn't need more than .8g of protein per kg of bodyweight. That's enough to not lose what little muscle you have when you're a skinnyfat dyel. An athlete or weight lifter needs up to 1.2-1.8g of protein per kg of bodyweight because he requires the amino acids to repair his damaged muscle fibers, which does not occur in a person who's working a white collar job. This video is obviously directed at normal people, not athletes or lifters.

No it most certainly isn't. My criticism is based on the fact that the lifestyle your little religious cult (because that's what it is) is suggesting is simply unsustainable, but you would jump through numerous mental hoops to twist and turn every piece of evidence in order to fool more people into joining you.

Just like an extreme cult, you have people letting their children die. With hardcore religious nuts it's because they don't trust medicine and children die of fevers, with you lot it's because some cunt took that shit too far and fed her child tree bark and dingleberries. On the off chance that child survived, it's going to be a 5 foot tall troglodyte with mental impairment because of the malnutrition your diet heralds. Just look at the comments of that clip, some nigger crying about a baby formula ad coming up while watching the video, can't make that shit up.

At its core, your cult is also extremely hypocritical. Even if we miraculously adopted that stupid diet, what do you think is going to happen after we start making enough produce to support 7 billion people? Specifically, what's going to happen to all the field mice, bunny rabbits, birds and what have you that come gnawing on the plants? Everybody is just going to shrug and let them scour the fields unimpeded? Perhaps you've heard of the 10 deadly plagues and specifically, the locusts, or perhaps malnutrition has impeded your intelligence.

By the same fucking channel, you mongoloid.

but you gotta weigh like 100kilo's for your needs to be 200g

ma nigga

It's basically what vegans do.

>No it most certainly isn't

Sorry to say it is. You're offended by what his videos say, and you think that the offense you take to them is evidence enough that it's wrong.

>meat and diabetes? why I never! bullshit, I say!

Not vegan by the way.

Because this board isn't for loser dyels to spread their loserdom.

you need 150+ g a day and you're good

>notice someone baiting
>get mad

if you weigh 75+ kilo

>Turns out there’s no real evidence of dietary protein deficiency.

Just like there's no real evidence of smoking causing cancer, HIV leading to AIDS, or vaccines preventing infectious diseases. You heard it here first, folks. BIochemistry is just a big ruse. A Jewish conspiracy. Quoting an abstract out of context hammers the point home.

I'm also offended by the fact you got dropped in the bucket with chromosomes as a child and yet your handlers are letting you browse the internet all willy nilly, but I haven't made an issue out of it.

Furthermore, as suggested, vegans are simply offended by the sights of an abbatoir and think that's evidence enough humans shouldn't use animal products, when there's surmountable evidence what you preach is complete bullshit on so many levels, like the fact you need dietary supplements to sustain your way of life, or, as I already mentioned, the fact that there simply isn't a fucking any feasible possibility that an animal didn't die in order for your daily portion of kale and treebark to arrive at your table at less than exorbitant price. All life is precious, right? Why should a cow or a pig be more precious than a locust? Are you speciesist?

Why is this 12 year old going all anti-vegan?

He's almost as bad as vegans

>everyone who tells me to eat less meat must be le vegan bogeyman

This guy is really fucking skeevy. "NutritionFacts.org" sounds like a government site, but it's really just his own opinion and there to sell his book.

a billion times this

>A century ago, the protein recommendations were more than twice what we know them to be today.
110g/day was recommended for "working men", so non-sedentary people, which is below the 1.8g/kg a day known to be optimal for muscle function today and just touches the bottom of the IOM's 1.2-1.8 g/kg BW a day recommendation for active individuals. During a cut there is an argument for even higher intakes of 2.3-3.1 g per kg of LBM a day depending on the degree of caloric deficit : ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765

>Turns out there’s no real evidence of dietary protein deficiency.
There are well known studies in animals demonstrating that mild-to-moderate protein restriction extends lifespan but leads to increased stress hormones, impaired cognitive function, wound healing, physical performance, fecundity, linear growth and atrophy of skeletal muscle, brain, liver, etc while more severe restriction gives rise to kwashiorkor-like symptoms. It would be unethical nowadays to perform these experiments in humans under controlled conditions.

>Human breast milk
Human breast milk has a lower "apparent" protein content because it has a lot of free form amino acids (which are more bioavailable than whole proteins). It becomes higher after correcting for this. Also, caloric intake and body size needs to be accounted for. An infant's cells are actually "seeing" ~1.5g/kg - 2.2g/kg BW a day of protein dependent on the breastfeeding stage which is in line with the maximal utilization of protein in humans determined under contemporary methods. However it's extremely retarded to use breast milk composition as a tool for studying adult diet since infants have different needs than adults. Namely, a higher protein:carbohydrate ratio to get even remotely close to the degree of anabolism in infants. Also, breast milk is loaded with saturated fat, why does he leave this out?

>Adults require no more than
Requirement to survive =/= health. Even in sedentary couch potato populations there is evidence that more could be beneficial for stuff like appetite regulation, nutrient partitioning, maintenance of lean mass (thus insulin sensitivity), cognition and mood.

>calcium balance
Increasing protein intake is known to enhance the absorption of dietary minerals like calcium and iron, which is considered beneficial.

>bone
Increased calcium absorption from the above reduces PTH tone and improves bone density. Enhanced amino acid availability and protein synthesis also increases bone growth at the chondral plate. Pro-survival and anti-apoptotic effects on osteocytes lead to enhanced bone strength. In humans, glycine is poorly synthesized endogeneously and intake of ~10g a day can enhance collagen synthesis in bones : ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20093739 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26041391. All these effects are compounded by the greatly increased ability to recover from exercise granted by higher protein intake which alone leads to improvements in bone health.

>kidney function
Higher protein intake is trophic to the kidneys, boosting GFR and pressure natriuresis. This lowers blood pressure and excretion of uremic toxins. Some waste products of deaminated amino acids will drop urinary pH and, because of that, up the probability of stone formation in susceptible individuals slightly. Though this is easily compensated for with a diet rich in bicarbonate precursors : fruits and vegetables. Exercise increases renal acid load too yet this isn't a good reason to avoid it. People with pre-existing kidney problems (uninephrectomy, CKD) must restrict protein intake as their kidney(s) lack the ability to grow or adapt. With the exercise analogy again, myopathy patients can't exercise much but this recommendation should not be generalized to the entire population.

>increased cancer risk
Determined with either weak correlational studies in humans that are confounded by extraneous variables like carcinogens formed during the cooking of proteinaceous foods or in studies on animals where they are deprived of amino acids needed for any kind of rapid cellular proliferation be it cancerous or host (growth/repair/reproduction/maintenance) related.

>disorders of the liver,
Only seen in

- short-term animal data where they are reared on very low protein diets and given inadequate time to adapt to higher intakes and higher rates of protein synthesis
- with pre-existing liver problems.

In healthy animals chronic elevation of protein intake enhances the ability of liver to regenerate from insults, antioxidant defense, glycogen storage, detoxification and biosynthetic capacity.

> coronary artery disease.
Higher protein enhances immune function (increased reverse cholesterol transport), endothelial function (barrier less permeable to lipoproteins, also lower blood pressure), glutathione levels (protection from oxidative stress) and liver lipoprotein receptor expression (increased removal of lipoprotein particles from the blood) while low protein diets do the opposite.

>Therefore, there is currently no reasonable scientific basis to recommend protein consumption above the current recommended daily allowance, due to its potential disease risks.
nope : nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/apnm-2015-0550

Sure stupid levels of protein intake >35% of calories or >1.8g/kg probably pose some danger like increased S-adenosylhomocysteine and acyl-CoAs but there is de facto no evidence of any problems below that.

High-quality protein is expensive though

This
The video is very informative about how protein deficiency isn't a problem

nutritionmemes.org/vegan

Into the trash it goes

>i'm just a little fag who has to be entertained every second instead of educating myself

get the fuck off this board nigger

This pretty much sums up the situation. Have a good day fags.

So, just some context. The OP video is about protein intake for average people. Protein intake for cutting or lifting may be different. Continuing on...

This user posted this study in defence of high protein intake.
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765
It's only a masters level thesis and not an independent study. It is literally some dude 'googling' for studies about protein for athletes, reading the studies, and summarising.
>Database searches were performed from earliest record to July 2013 using the terms protein, and intake, or diet, and weight, or train, or restrict, or energy, or strength, and athlete.
Continuing...

The dude who wrote this article being skeptical of the protein meme, later wrote a negative takedown of that study cited above (he is also friends with the paper's author). The paper's author then responded to the takedown, and vice versa. The whole debate can be found here:

bayesianbodybuilding.com/eric-helms-protein/

The end result was that neither participant in the debate convinced the other. One maintained that protein was a meme, the other maintained that more protons = more good. The whole exchange is worth a read but the TL;DR is that even researchers can't actually agree on it because the evidence either way is still debatable.

>What Eric and I definitely agree on, along with every other expert on protein that I know, is that between 1.8 – 2.7 g/kg, you generally won’t experience any major or even noticeable differences in performance or body composition.

at least for intakes >1.8 g/kg

what there is to support 1.8 g/kg is pretty convincing

a lot of the negative studies on over this amount could be related be related to poor dosing strategies resulting in refractoriness to MPS

biolayne.com/wp-content/uploads/publications/Norton-J-Ag-Food-Ind-Hi-Tech-2008.pdf

with 50mg/kg leucine (~0.4g/kg) * 4 daytime meals and one bedtime load of 0.4g/kg + 0.6g/kg casein you can make a bretty ok mechanistic case for 2.6g/kg

>1 gallon of milk costs $2.50
>2400 calories
>easy as shit to consume
You would be an absolute retard to not take advantage of the calorie to cost ratio, the ease of consumption, and the growth hormones you get with Milk
>but it was meant for babies loool
Milk is a fluid that is designed to be the single thing consumed by animals to survive off of for as long as needed. It is literally the nectar of the gods. No other food/drink can compare to Milk as a all-in-one nutrient source, that is also cheap as fuck

>consuming unfertilized eggs is more natural then consuming a fluid produced for the single reason to be consumed

That's a good history lesson but it's speaking from a purely health perspective as opposed to a lifting perspective. It also doesn't take into account that humans adapt to different things over time.

Just because human breast milk doesn't have a bunch of protein doesn't mean that we shouldn't drink more.

The video has nothing to do with protein powders. The primary use of powders are for people who want to put on muscle mass. Thats going to be higher than the average man.

Mate, the yolk of an egg literally plays the same role for the chick as milk for the calf.

This is pretty fucking stupid OP and
Does this video even take into account that lifters and more active people require higher amounts of protein? Does it take into account that people 50+ years ago on average lived much more active/physical lifestyles compared to the current generation of computers and televisions? Does it consider that just because protein isn't a vital nutrient as an infant that it doesn't become more important at other developmental stages?

>It's another shitty vegan thread episode

lol @ the breast milk argument. you see many babies grow in size, but I don't see many deadlifting 4pl8s

People don't understand that milk is basically natures protein shake. The reason grown animals stop drinking it is because of how taxing it would be for the mother to continue producing it ad infinititum. Also, like a protein shake it is not nessasary to survive after a certain point in life. For a person trying specifically to grow muscle though it is a hell of a sup.

I want to bulk. I am fine with the taste of milk, I've drank a lot of it in my childhood actually.

But I also have acne. I am currently on a skincare routine which is allowing my acne to clear up. I am afraid that milk will be detrimental to my acne.

What should I do?

well in the video at the end he states that the protein requirements is 0,66 - 0,9 g per kg for a healthy adult, now add to that the increased protein synthesis after working out and simply double that, and you get 1.3 - 1.8 g of protein per kg, that's about in line with what's commonly recommended here, obviously im talking about training natty because steroids further increase protein synthesis making the body able to use even more protein

>protein
>Not needed when you are a growing child

L m a o